Dawn of the Dead 4K UHD (1978)

[Kyle15]

Originally Posted by Markgway

Ok but did u listen to the comparison?

[russweiss1]

Originally Posted by Vilya

My tactic when ordering a limited edition, or anything special, from Amazon is to spend the extra $5 for gift wrapping. Anything that they gift wrap they will at least ship in a box. Amazon wants that gift bag to arrive all nice and pretty. Still little protection against UPS Silverbacks, tho.

That must cost an arm and a leg unless you rarely order from them.

[Markgway]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

Maybe a U.S. company will eventually release a truly perfect release of DAWN OF THE DEAD sans muffled, noise-reduced audio at some point.

No! I'm abso****inglutely not buying this again!!!

Second Sight need to fix the mono and issue replacements to those of us who care/want them.

[Markgway]

Originally Posted by Kyle15

Ok but did u listen to the comparison?

Yes.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Markgway

Brand new transfer doesn't mean it hasn't been filtered some. You're not going to get a recall or replacement.

[Christian Muth]

I'd be cool with a fan remux using the mono track from the Midnight Factory or Japanese Happinet Blu-rays

Chris

[Kyle15]

Originally Posted by Markgway

No! I'm abso****inglutely not buying this again!!!

Second Sight need to fix the mono and issue replacements to those of us who care/want them.

Not going to happen. Filtering audio to death has been happening for ages. Many Criterion discs are worse.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by russweiss1

That must cost an arm and a leg unless you rarely order from them.

I have been shopping with Amazon since 2004 before Prime even existed. The vast majority of what I buy from them is neither limited or particularly special, but let's just say that I haven't had to buy any gift bags for a very long time as they are reusable.

[BluProofie]

It’s a bit funny that everyone thought the mono sounded amazing until some guy on a blog posted that it sounded like a “downmix” two years later.

Not saying anyone here is wrong, though. I’m no audio expert.

[BladeRunner2007]

Originally Posted by BluProofie

It’s a bit funny that everyone thought the mono sounded amazing until some guy on a blog posted that it sounded like a “downmix” two years later.

Not saying anyone here is wrong, though. I’m no audio expert.

This! To me, the mono on the SS release still sounds way better than ever before. I actually never watched my Midnight Factory release, so I have no idea how that one sounds. And I have no desire to do so now, because the picture quality of the SS release is just too good. I can't ever go back to any previous release now. It's funny, like you said, everyone praised the mono 2 years ago, but now some internet blog tells you otherwise and everyone jumps on the bandwagon and screams for a perfect release of the film, albeit SS already released the perfect set. Not even going to bother listening to the comparison, because to me, the original mono from SS sounds great. Filtered or not.

[Markgway]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Brand new transfer doesn't mean it hasn't been filtered some.

Why though?

What's the point of spending years(?) on the image and then buggering the audio?*

*I should really just put this in my sig.

You're not going to get a recall or replacement.

Boo!

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

I'd be cool with a fan remux using the mono track from the Midnight Factory or Japanese Happinet Blu-rays

I don't think the vast majority are happy to pay for a boutique special edition only to have to remux it themselves with audio that was already available. Bad enough that so much studio product requires that.

Originally Posted by BladeRunner2007

Not even going to bother listening to the comparison, because to me, the original mono from SS sounds great. Filtered or not.

[Geoff D]

For better or (usually) worse, this kind of filtering seems to be endemic to the mastering of Old Movie Audio, there are very few facilities who’ll just leave it alone. And yet Dawn’s mono still sounds betterer to me - albeit within my limited audio capabilities, not having a separate sound system of any kind, plus damaged hearing - than any other version I own. I did have the Italian set, briefly, but the visual mastering is so bleh it got sold within days.

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

Man, the comparison from 0:40 on with the sounds of the helicopter blades, the high frequencies... It sounds like the speakers have a big heavy blanket thrown over them. Ugh...

Chris

That doesn't sound like a totally fair comparison since you're switching between the two, not comparing exact samples, and the helicopter sound changes as the clip goes on.

There is tendency I've noticed from time to time to boost the lower end in optical material to compensate for perceived deficiencies when remastering. I don't think this is as destructive as it's made out to be a lot of the time.

What are many of us listening to the comparison on, PC speakers? I've got Bose ones on my PC and even those aren't a patch on the Focal speakers with SVS sub in my proper setup. So there's a couple of things that might be muddying this sort of comparison making it even more unfair. You could probably apply the same arguments to TV speakers which can't handle the full range well.

1. Smaller PC speakers, or any lesser speaker full stop, are going to struggle with lower frequencies. They're likely going to be slightly better at reproducing higher frequencies, but if they have to play higher frequencies plus trying their best to reproduce more low-end they're gonna struggle to do both.

2. EQ on the user end - Tell a computer you're using desktop speakers and I bet it's going to apply a curve to try and compensate. The speakers themselves are probably built to be doing something similar, like my Bose which are built to give better oomph for their small size but, in avoiding tininess they make this a compromise by being rather muddy on the low end because they're still not physically capable of producing true low frequencies.

3. And lets add this - it's the vinyl LP argument at it's core - many simply prefer the brighter sound you get from analogue formats so are going to prefer an old optical track without any digital remastering.

My personal opinion is that both sound perfectly fine, just with slightly different emphasis. I did detect what I thought could be a bit of noise reduction under the sound of the blades, but when I listened again the same sound was on both transfers so it must simply be natural phasing from the blades inherent to the source recording.

[Rayjg]

Originally Posted by Vilya

My tactic when ordering a limited edition, or anything special, from Amazon is to spend the extra $5 for gift wrapping. Anything that they gift wrap they will at least ship in a box. Amazon wants that gift bag to arrive all nice and pretty. Still little protection against UPS Silverbacks, tho.

I think Amazon is on to us because that gift wrap (really a gift bag) keeps getting more expensive.

[RevolverOcelScott]

Originally Posted by Vilya

My tactic when ordering a limited edition, or anything special, from Amazon is to spend the extra $5 for gift wrapping. Anything that they gift wrap they will at least ship in a box. Amazon wants that gift bag to arrive all nice and pretty. Still little protection against UPS Silverbacks, tho.

Someone in another thread said if you order a cheap 2 pack of batteries that they have to ship it in a box due to regulations regarding batteries. I cannot confirm, but anything I've ordered with batteries has indeed come in a box. YMMV obviously, plus what if they ship them separately.

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by BladeRunner2007

This! To me, the mono on the SS release still sounds way better than ever before. I actually never watched my Midnight Factory release, so I have no idea how that one sounds. And I have no desire to do so now, because the picture quality of the SS release is just too good. I can't ever go back to any previous release now. It's funny, like you said, everyone praised the mono 2 years ago, but now some internet blog tells you otherwise and everyone jumps on the bandwagon and screams for a perfect release of the film, albeit SS already released the perfect set. Not even going to bother listening to the comparison, because to me, the original mono from SS sounds great. Filtered or not.

I wasn't responding to that blog's comment about it being a downmix, but the direct comparison to the sound from the Midnight Factory release. It sounds muffled in comparison. I mean, give it a listen from :40 on when you can hear the helicopter. This isn't just some "mild filtering", there's a pretty drastic reduction in the high frequencies there.

And not for nothing, but this happens a lot when people finally actually compare new releases to previous ones. We're initially so taken with the new that we love it and don't see any flaws, but then you start digging and something rears its ugly head. Second Sight did some amazing work on this, but re: the sound, not so much. That it was missed initially is not indicative of it not actually being an issue.

Chris

[Kyle15]

Originally Posted by Markgway

Why though?

What's the point of spending years(?) on the image and then buggering the audio?*

*I should really just put this in my sig.

Good write-up about it here from fellow Blah-ray man:

https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/p/what...isited-my.html

In comparison liberal use of DNR to wipe away film grain used to be more commonplace than it is now. Attitudes about audio still haven't caught up the same.

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

I wasn't responding to that blog's comment about it being a downmix, but the direct comparison to the sound from the Midnight Factory release. It sounds muffled in comparison. I mean, give it a listen from :40 on when you can hear the helicopter. This isn't just some "mild filtering", there's a pretty drastic reduction in the high frequencies there.

And not for nothing, but this happens a lot when people finally actually compare new releases to previous ones. We're initially so taken with the new that we love it and don't see any flaws, but then you start digging and something rears its ugly head. Second Sight did some amazing work on this, but re: the sound, not so much. That it was missed initially is not indicative of it not actually being an issue.

Chris

Go back and listen to the first switch for the 'copter at 0:40. That sounds different because, er, it sounds different at that timestamp anyway so it's an unfortunate point at which to switch. Which is why I say it's not a totally fair comparison. When you compare later switches between 'copter sounds it's actually less of a difference because the caps are capping the same sorts of sounds.

In listening again, I also think the Midnight Factory audio sounds rather harsh at higher volumes, with the remastered sounding less like nails down a chalkboard.

Clearly you've got different preferences to me, but neither examples are what I'd call bad. Just different ways of working with the material, and the SS might actually be closer to how the master sounds anyway, with the Midnight audio likely coming from a generation or so lower.

[Christian Muth]

I really hope Second Sight doesn't subject MARTIN's sound to these types of "improvements".

Chris

[Kyle15]

Originally Posted by oddbox83

In listening again, I also think the Midnight Factory audio sounds rather harsh at higher volumes, with the remastered sounding less like nails down a chalkboard.

Wiping away perceived "harshness" is commonplace and that removes dynamic range with it, and gives the impression of "blanket over speakers" as is evident here. There's some better examples of that out there like in the case of Solaris and Seven Samurai which were subject to even heavier "restoration."