Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

As part of the demo, JVC was showing some clips from the Spears and Munsil UHD/4K HDR Benchmark test disc. Really wish all home theater enthusiast, regardless of space and finances one may have, could see a demo like this.

Any news of the revised Spears & Munsil 4K test disc?

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Any news of the revised Spears & Munsil 4K test disc?

Stacey has not posted a ETA and no post since mid May. Sure hope everything is OK with him and the project.

[cheez avenger]

About to start House of the Dragon on HBO MAX. It's in 4K DV / Atmos via the ATV+.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Almost forgot, the source in all the rooms we attended was the Kaleidescape and/or Oppo UHD BD players. No streamers allowed.

The only way Streaming can compete with Disc is Gigabit Fiber with 6a Ethernet, but nobody wants to admit to this. I even asked Robert Zohn about the Shootout, and he said check the Video but nothing was there about Streaming. WiFi like you guys say is Good Enough, but to compete with Disc you need Gigabit Fiber with Hardwired Ethernet!

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by alchav21

The only way Streaming can compete with Disc is Gigabit Fiber...

If that were true it would mean that 99.99% of the world can't access high quality streaming. And it would cost hundreds of billions of dollars in order to install the fiber wires around the globe in order to give them access.

How is that a better solution than watching discs that can easily be shipped almost anywhere in the world?

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by gotmule

Fun way to spend a day I bet. I am on the books for Chad to calibrate my JVC on 9/20. Really looking forward to seeing the difference as I am already blown away with how good it looks pre-calibration.

IMO, go easy on the expectations. I'm sure when he finishes it will do D65 correctly and color tracking will be very close to the boxes with black at 15 and white at 235. I would bet out of the box most of these parameters are not all that far off but it will be nice to know they are the best they can be when he finishes.

I would ask for prints of the before and after results of the calibration.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by alchav21

The only way Streaming can compete with Disc is Gigabit Fiber with 6a Ethernet

As stated in this thread several times, the target market for streaming is the masses not audiophile/videophiles. Netflix has over 200 million subs and they are fine with an average speed of < 4 Mbps. Streaming A/V quality fulfills the expectations of most subs and that's all that matters to the vendors. It is matter of cost for storage and transport, the lower the data rates the less money it cost so profits are greater.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

About to start House of the Dragon on HBO MAX. It's in 4K DV / Atmos via the ATV+.

Intend to check it out in a couple of days. Will use the ATV4K or Shield Pro.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

As stated in this thread several times, the target market for streaming is the masses not audiophile/videophiles.

Like I have said before, if you don't want to be part of the Masses and want Disc Quality Streaming you need Fiber and Hardwired Ethernet. So you work with your Community to get this or Move to a location that has it!

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

The only way Streaming can compete with Disc is Gigabit Fiber with 6a Ethernet, but nobody wants to admit to this. I even asked Robert Zohn about the Shootout, and he said check the Video but nothing was there about Streaming. WiFi like you guys say is Good Enough, but to compete with Disc you need Gigabit Fiber with Hardwired Ethernet!

No one wants to admit it because it is not true. You need neither one.

The Value Electronics TV Shootout did not use streaming for a video source because streaming is not up to the challenge as was the case at the event that Wendell attended. These events needed the highest quality video sources (downloads and 4K discs) to demonstrate these top tier products. Streaming just doesn't cut it at this level of competition.

Streaming has no problem competing for consumers because first and foremost it is cheap and convenient. Cheap and convenient with "good enough" quality is all that you and most people want, so it's mission accomplished already for you and those *shudder* like you.

You do not need gigabit fiber nor do you need a wired connection. No mainstream streaming provider requires more download speed than 25 Mbps and even Sony's Bravia Core streaming at its highest quality requires no more than 115 Mbps. I get 490 Mbps download speed and I easily, with plenty of room to spare, meet all streaming requirements in existence now and for the foreseeable future.

So, the the guy running Cat 5e ethernet cable throughout his house (you) is telling everyone that they need Cat 6a now. Hypocrite much? Cat 6a supports speeds up to 10 Gbps over 100 meter runs and next to no one needs that in their home for any application and certainly not to stream the likes of Netflix.

Originally Posted by alchav21

I have FTTH from CSN, Fiber straight to a Switch, then Cat5e to my Sony UHD TV at 85Mbps Symmetrical.

If that's still your internet speed, it can't even handle Sony's Bravia Core Service. You'd expect a streaming fanatic like yourself to keep up to date and to at least follow his own advice. Where's your gigabit internet service? Where's your Cat 6a wiring?

For what feels like the millionth time, a wireless network is perfectly fine for streaming movies. I use both a wired network and a wireless network for streaming and there is no performance difference between them. None. Nada. Zilch. I would have long ago abandoned the use of a wireless network if I had experienced recurring problems using it. Wireless networks are so popular because they are so very reliable.

Finally, every streaming provider in existence lists their streaming requirements and not one requires gigabit fiber internet service and not one requires a wired network. You do not know more about what is needed to use their services than do the streaming providers themselves. You are just making it all up as you go along.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Like I have said before, if you don't want to be part of the Masses and want Disc Quality Streaming you need Fiber and Hardwired Ethernet. So you work with your Community to get this or Move to a location that has it!

Repeating nonsense does not make it true. It just makes the person doing it more of a each time.

People are not going to move away from their family and friends to obtain internet service that they do not need to get something that does not even yet exist. There is no "disc quality streaming" to be had in either the real world or in the fantasy one where you reside.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Stacey has not posted a ETA and no post since mid May. Sure hope everything is OK with him and the project.

I hope that he is well, also.

Talented people tend to be very busy people and that's probably the explanation for his hiatus from these forums.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Repeating nonsense does not make it true. It just makes the person doing it more of a.......

People are not going to move away from their family and friends to obtain internet service that they do not need to get something that does not even yet exist. There is no "disc quality streaming" to be had in either the real world or in the fantasy one where you reside.

Come on Vilya you don't have to revert to name calling, you guys are better than that. Technology waits for no one, what did they say about Computer Memory and HDD...You will never need that much. With the Infrastructure Package Fiber Networks are coming. In Palm Desert, CA I worked with a Community to get Fiber it's not hard. IMO better than Disc Quality Streaming is coming from your Media Server or Streaming Provider!

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Come on Vilya you don't have to revert to name calling, you guys are better than that. Technology waits for no one, what did they say about Computer Memory and HDD...You will never need that much. With the Infrastructure Package Fiber Networks are coming. In Palm Desert, CA I worked with a Community to get Fiber it's not hard. IMO better than Disc Quality Streaming is coming from your Media Server or Streaming Provider!

Originally Posted by Vilya

Repeating nonsense does not make it true. It just makes the person doing it more of a each time.

It's only name calling if the description fits. Are you admitting that it fits? Are you confessing to repeating nonsense? Do you need some extra large shoes?

I build a computer for myself about once a decade. When I do build one I aim for one that will stay relevant for another decade. You also have no idea what my computing needs are.

You do not have a media server and you do not watch discs, so you are in no position to make any claim regarding "disc quality streaming." Streaming services have no reason to improve their quality because people like you are already completely satisfied. All they want to improve is their bottom line.

How about you actually answer the questions put to you for a change? If gigabit internet service and a Cat6a ethernet connection are needed for "disc quality" streaming how come you have neither one? You always tell us that your streaming experience is "disc quality", but you do not meet your own stated requirements for getting it.

[Vilya]

Bonus question:

TVs only have a 100 Mbps Ethernet port, so what good would having gigabit internet service and a Cat 6a Ethernet connection accomplish?

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Like I have said before, if you don't want to be part of the Masses and want Disc Quality Streaming you need Fiber and Hardwired Ethernet. So you work with your Community to get this or Move to a location that has it!

Recapping a couple of your recent posts…..you say that it is a bother to “flip” a disc as that is too much work. But then you suggest that it makes sense to pack everything up and move to get better internet, never-minding the cost and stress of relocating.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I hope that he is well, also.

Talented people tend to be very busy people and that's probably the explanation for his hiatus from these forums.

I will be very busy in the near term and will most likely post here a lot less. My hope is my posts will maybe be more useful or even useful.


I'm glad more people are seeing the latest projectors from JVC and Sony in action. I have been hooked on projectors for over 20 years and my current projector, JVC NZ8, indeed does look like an OLED but can fill a 127" 2.40:1 screen. I love watching the demos I have seen on OLED TVs in Best Buy over again on my setup at home. I've never been happier with my setup.

Usually, ... I'm a stickler for bypassing ANY post processing. I love not needing extra processors or extra signal processing. However, I enabled the 8K mode of my JVC NZ8. I know the source of a UHD BD for example is 4K but on the other hand ... I had been up-converting Blu Rays to 4K for quite some time without being too concerned. Having a 4K display means needing to either window box or up-convert lower resolutions.

Without resorting to the graphs proving no one can see 8K and so on, I have to say I am currently enjoying the 8K mode from my projector.

I have old friends I've known since Jr High coming for a week at my place and can't wait to host my own Laser Light shows for them. We would tend to frequent the Miami Museum of Science planetarium back in the days of our mis spent youth.

-B

edit Quoted from Alcav, "IMO better than Disc Quality Streaming is coming from your Media Server or Streaming Provider!"

Well, let me know when and if that happens. I have disc and streaming and so far one is clearly better than the other. My guess is 8K streaming will compare to UHD disc in about the same way 4K streaming compares to Blu Ray. With my current equipment I'll take the Blu Ray which is typically 30GB over 4K from iTunes which would normally fit on a standard DVD (`6GB). I am jazzed about the future but I actively make the best of the now also.

[crutzulee]

Originally Posted by bhampton

I will be very busy in the near term and will most likely post here a lot less. My hope is my posts will maybe be more useful or even useful.


I'm glad more people are seeing the latest projectors from JVC and Sony in action. I have been hooked on projectors for over 20 years and my current projector, JVC NZ8, indeed does look like an OLED but can fill a 127" 2.40:1 screen. I love watching the demos I have seen on OLED TVs in Best Buy over again on my setup at home. I've never been happier with my setup.

Usually, ... I'm a stickler for bypassing ANY post processing. I love not needing extra processors or extra signal processing. However, I enabled the 8K mode of my JVC NZ8. I know the source of a UHD BD for example is 4K but on the other hand ... I had been up-converting Blu Rays to 4K for quite some time without being too concerned. Having a 4K display means needing to either window box or up-convert lower resolutions.

Without resorting to the graphs proving no one can see 8K and so on, I have to say I am currently enjoying the 8K mode from my projector.

I have old friends I've known since Jr High coming for a week at my place and can't wait to host my own Laser Light shows for them. We would tend to frequent the Miami Museum of Science planetarium back in the days of our mis spent youth.

-B

edit Quoted from Alcav, "IMO better than Disc Quality Streaming is coming from your Media Server or Streaming Provider!"

Well, let me know when and if that happens. I have disc and streaming and so far one is clearly better than the other. My guess is 8K streaming will compare to UHD disc in about the same way 4K streaming compares to Blu Ray. With my current equipment I'll take the Blu Ray which is typically 30GB over 4K from iTunes which would normally fit on a standard DVD (`6GB). I am jazzed about the future but I actively make the best of the now also.

How are you calibrating your JVC?

[Vilya]

Another road trip this morning. I have to travel a 110 miles just to have a test done. What a way to start the week.

Oh well, at least it will be out of the way and done with in a few hours. I would love to go a whole month without an appointment, though. Just one month.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by gotmule

Recapping a couple of your recent posts…..you say that it is a bother to “flip” a disc as that is too much work. But then you suggest that it makes sense to pack everything up and move to get better internet, never-minding the cost and stress of relocating.

Being lazy sounds like a hell of a lot of work.