Stephen Kings Cats Eye 4K UHD (1985)

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by captainjoe

What you mean the sky isn’t yellow in the middle of the day?

Well, it can be. We do get occasional weather fronts in the UK which contain sand from the Sahara, giving the sky a yellow look. I've seen it once myself, very eerie.

Somehow I doubt that rare phenomenon was happening in the US exactly when Cats Eye was shot, and that all other releases were wrong when they assumed a blue sky.

[kmhofmann]

Originally Posted by oddbox83

Well, it can be. We do get occasional weather fronts in the UK which contain sand from the Sahara, giving the sky a yellow look. I've seen it once myself, very eerie.

Somehow I doubt that rare phenomenon was happening in the US exactly when Cats Eye was shot, and that all other releases were wrong when they assumed a blue sky.

I won't claim whether the Hiventy grading is correct to the original projection or not.

But:
The point of restoration is not to make everything look as natural as on a sunny day (or any day).
The point of restoration is to restore the colors as they originally looked on projected film print stock at the time of release. Which most people forget had its very own color characteristics that are much, much warmer than the usual video telecine transfers that people here seem to have gotten used to.

See also the Kodak optical workflow chart and an interview with Davide Pozzi (NB, not responsible for this restoration).

"Natural skies" are NOT a goal, nor should they be!

[erixon20]

I want to get on 4K but I am waiting to see if a version comes out in the US Soon.

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by kmhofmann

I won't claim whether the Hiventy grading is correct to the original projection or not.

But:
The point of restoration is not to make everything look as natural as on a sunny day (or any day).
The point of restoration is to restore the colors as they originally looked on projected film print stock at the time of release. Which most people forget had its very own color characteristics that are much, much warmer than the usual video telecine transfers that people here seem to have gotten used to.

See also the Kodak optical workflow chart and an interview with Davide Pozzi (NB, not responsible for this restoration).

"Natural skies" are NOT a goal, nor should they be!

Yes, a film may have a look that doesn't have to be true to life.

But come off it. Hiventy's grade is so extreme there's no way an 80s film went out with that look.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by kmhofmann

I won't claim whether the Hiventy grading is correct to the original projection or not.

But:
The point of restoration is not to make everything look as natural as on a sunny day (or any day).
The point of restoration is to restore the colors as they originally looked on projected film print stock at the time of release. Which most people forget had its very own color characteristics that are much, much warmer than the usual video telecine transfers that people here seem to have gotten used to.

See also the Kodak optical workflow chart and an interview with Davide Pozzi (NB, not responsible for this restoration).

"Natural skies" are NOT a goal, nor should they be!

Are you ****ing kidding me with that link to Ritrovata's ruiner-in-chief? There are few post houses responsible for more visual vandalism than they, and it's NOT in service of "making it look like a print", it's about putting their own signature look onto something. No matter when it was made, no matter who made it, no matter what it was shot on, their colour restorations all come out with that patented PisstaVision™️© drench and horribly low contrast (which BTW is nothing like what a release print looks like, quite the opposite). Great restorers but mai god, keep them away from the grading at all costs.

[kmhofmann]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Are you ****ing kidding me with that link to Ritrovata's ruiner-in-chief? There are few post houses responsible for more visual vandalism than they, and it's NOT in service of "making it look like a print", it's about putting their own signature look onto something. No matter when it was made, no matter who made it, no matter what it was shot on, their colour restorations all come out with that patented PisstaVision™️© drench and horribly low contrast (which BTW is nothing like what a release print looks like, quite the opposite). Great restorers but mai god, keep them away from the grading at all costs.

Have you read the actual interview?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by kmhofmann

Have you read the actual interview?

Have you? We can literally see the effect of the PisstaVision™️© in the first two images that accompany that article! Matey even says that theirs is a "very personal approach that may not be shared by everyone".

Big Boss, old transfer



Big Boss, Ritrovata 4K transfer


Contrast shot to shit? Check! Greeny-yellow colour drench? Check! It's a Ritrovata joint alright

[fredreed]

I believe that this is also only available In region B. I saw this from only http://www.dialbolikdvd.com

[JohnCarpenterFan]

This is the sort of grading job that deserves the overwhelmingly negative criticism. I much prefer the grading on the Warner release, it looks more like how an actual film would look projected and I'd bet money on its grading being far closer to the original intention compared to what StudioCanal pissed out.

[DMRI2006]

And the 5.1 sound is atrocious on this remaster, it's so muddy with an overly amplified LFE that drowns out everything if you have a surround system (and yes mine is properly calibrated, this is just a terrible mix). It's the only one of these SC remasters to really bug out audio wise but it's bad enough on its own merits to discourage a purchase, never mind the color grading. Since it lacks the original 2.0 track you're stuck with it too.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Contrast shot to shit? Check! Greeny-yellow colour drench? Check! It's a Ritrovata joint alright

Originally Posted by JohnCarpenterFan

This is the sort of grading job that deserves the overwhelmingly negative criticism.

I honestly don't know what's real any more with these studios/restoration houses. We've got matey almost becoming self-aware in the interview when he mentions the divisive nature of the gradings and then we have other experts saying Technicolor prints really looked like Georges Méliès unzipped his pantaloons over one of his pictures. They were the innovation that brought audiences away from their televisions? and not a myriad of colours never seen before?

I can't imagine everything should like a Spaghetti Western, but we're dealing delusions of grandeur when you want to leave your mark on your work like a tomcat.

I'm getting to the point were I'll just desaturate Tinkle Vision and watch them in black and white.

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by JohnCarpenterFan

This is the sort of grading job that deserves the overwhelmingly negative criticism. I much prefer the grading on the Warner release, it looks more like how an actual film would look projected and I'd bet money on its grading being far closer to the original intention compared to what StudioCanal pissed out.

Thing is, I think people would be more willing to just shrug and accept it if it was just a warmer and greeny bias.

The problem is, it's not just a bias, it's a wash in many scenes! As I've already said, it's all the more frustrating because just by watching this 4K disc, you can tell how better it could have been if only the grading hadn't been done with all the subtlety of a pack of Crayola with most of the crayons missing.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by chip75

I honestly don't know what's real any more with these studios/restoration houses. We've got matey almost becoming self-aware in the interview when he mentions the divisive nature of the gradings and then we have other experts saying Technicolor prints really looked like Georges Méliès unzipped his pantaloons over one of his pictures. They were the innovation that brought audiences away from their televisions? and not a myriad of colours never seen before?

I can't imagine everything should like a Spaghetti Western, but we're dealing delusions of grandeur when you want to leave your mark on your work like a tomcat.

I'm getting to the point were I'll just desaturate Tinkle Vision and watch them in black and white.

The problem is, they've got like one or two LUTs for colour shows that they apply to everything. Every. Damned. Thing. And Mr Pozzi thinks that that LUT is some sort of divine intervention for showing us what films looked like in cinemas donkeys years ago but it's not, it's bullshit. He's decided that colour film should have this look and that's that, regardless of its provenance. It was horrible to read that bit about the Bruce Lee movies where he basically admits to being left alone to imprint their ghastly "look" on it, that all Fortune Star cared about was whether they were too grainy.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The problem is, they've got like one or two LUTs for colour shows that they apply to everything.

They seem to say the right things, but then they fail at the actual grading itself. Stamping their own look on things is just maddening.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by chip75

They seem to say the right things, but then they fail at the actual grading itself. Stamping their own look on things is just maddening.

Most people in these positions say the right things, like David C. Fein while he was busy applying varying amounts of DNR to the 4K Director's Edition of Star Trek TMP. Same for Andrea Kalas at Paramount. At the end of the day they're not gods, they're people, and they're putting their own personal imprint on other people's works of art. I mean, the job revolves around handling other people's works of art, right, but there's a way to do it without bastardising everything you touch, it's like if the director of the Louvre decided to draw a moustache on the Mona Lisa with a sharpie.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I mean, the job revolves around handling other people's works of art, right, but there's a way to do it without bastardising everything you touch, it's like if the director of the Louvre decided to draw a moustache on the Mona Lisa with a sharpie.

We'll get to the point were someone will add Airpods to the lady.

[oddbox83]

The Mona Lisa is already the right shade of yellow, so should be fine...

[Steel76]

It's just hilarious when people defend these urine/teal transfers.

So all previous releases, TV, Video, Laserdisc, DVD, Blu-Ray etc. are all wrong now?

Oh yeah, it's because it's UHD, and those are ALWAYS perfect, everything before was trash. Right?

It's probably just Hiventy trying to make them look more "modern", or they are colorblind, and see a blue sky as yellow in real life...

If I was rich, I would buy Hiventy, and shut them down.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Steel76

So all previous releases, TV, Video, Laserdisc, DVD, Blu-Ray etc. are all wrong now?

I think it's a case of not using those formats as gospel to compare what we get with these new masters as they had their own limitations and were often imbued with their own special sauce.

We shouldn't think of them as reference, and we shouldn't put our stamp on them either. The goal should be to present a home video release as close as possible to what was exhibited originally. Original intention shouldn't be adhered to unless it was achieved (but I'm all for alternative presentations alongside the originals so artists get their visions completed).

New scans from the original sources are a wonderful thing, but they're surpassing the prints for detail (things we were never meant to see like wires and makeup) and are open to interpretation or personal touches. So there needs to be a balancing act.

With great power there must also come great responsibility.

[lilboyblu]

The US Warner Brothers editions are currently $4.95 for the Blu-ray and $5.95 for the DVD at HamiltonBook. Historically speaking, whenever stuff lands there, it's only a matter of time until a new version comes along. Wonder who will be releasing it on 4K in the US? Hope it won't be the yellow abomination that this one is.