Superman: The Movie 4K UHD (1978)

[Bolty]

The sucky thing about that news is now people can't even order the 2018 release with confidence of getting the digital code or the 5.1 sound!!
So fans who just are finding out about the 5.1 70mm sound can not order from Amazon and be assured of getting it.
Try to find it "in store". Right.

[BorisKarloffice]

Originally Posted by Bolty

The sucky thing about that news is now people can't even order the 2018 release with confidence of getting the digital code or the 5.1 sound!!
So fans who just are finding out about the 5.1 70mm sound can not order from Amazon and be assured of getting it.
Try to find it "in store". Right.

Yes, WB played this as badly as possible.

I understand not wanting to have two different discs in production at the same time for a particular movie, but the solution should have been to either not make a new disc, or make a new disc that's MORE complete and replace the old one.

The only rationale I can think of behind this is that they're embarrassed to have a lossy track as the default option on a big flagship title like this, and for whatever reason they weren't able to make a new DTS-HD or TrueHD version of the 5.1 mix.

That's it. That's the only explanation that makes even the tiniest bit of sense.

[dlbsyst]

Originally Posted by Bolty

The sucky thing about that news is now people can't even order the 2018 release with confidence of getting the digital code or the 5.1 sound!!
So fans who just are finding out about the 5.1 70mm sound can not order from Amazon and be assured of getting it.
Try to find it "in store". Right.

That's why I purchased one on Ebay with the slip. It's the only way to know for sure.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by BorisKarloffice

Yes, WB played this as badly as possible.

I understand not wanting to have two different discs in production at the same time for a particular movie, but the solution should have been to either not make a new disc, or make a new disc that's MORE complete and replace the old one.

The only rationale I can think of behind this is that they're embarrassed to have a lossy track as the default option on a big flagship title like this, and for whatever reason they weren't able to make a new DTS-HD or TrueHD version of the 5.1 mix.

That's it. That's the only explanation that makes even the tiniest bit of sense.

I really think Warner DGAF about the 5.1. The Atmos is the priority mix for the film in their eyes, and probably the priority for most 4K UHD buyers who don't frequent the forum. ATMOS/DTS next gen audio formats are a major selling point for 4K releases, 5.1 isn't. After the Atmos, they add in an original theatrical mix for purists as a bullet point feature so there are no complaints that it only has Atmos. For this release, they made that the original 35mm 2.0 surround theatrical mix.

Given both this new disc and the 2018 disc are ultimately expendable due to their both lacking the new restoration, I'm not sure its worth getting worked up about, buying both versions, etc. Ultimately, even if the 2018 disc is the only disc ever to feature that 5.1 track, the new restoration with Atmos will still be the better disc in the end. It's not worth trading off a bit of audio difference for massive video deficiencies. So if one is buying the box set , I'd just make due with the new disc until the new resto disc is released and then do a disc swap. Only way it might truly make sense to buy the 2018 disc is if you are buying only Superman 1 and you want it right now.

[Mose Harper]

Originally Posted by Ruined

I really think Warner DGAF about the 5.1. The Atmos is the priority mix for the film in their eyes, and probably the priority for most 4K UHD buyers who don't frequent the forum. ATMOS/DTS next gen audio formats are a major selling point for 4K releases, 5.1 isn't. After the Atmos, they add in an original theatrical mix for purists as a bullet point feature so there are no complaints that it only has Atmos. For this release, they made that the original 35mm 2.0 surround theatrical mix.

They probably figure, as I would if I were in their position, that any uber-fans that truly cared about the 70mm mix, would have seen that as enough of a selling point to pick it up sometime in the almost five years it's been easily available.

If you are just discovering, or hitting a desire for this film now, then you are %-wise probably from a demo that cares more about the latest & greatest Atmos mix than any legacy audio option.

TBH, I'd just finished upgrading the audio end of my HT the year before that disc was released, and I was excited to hear that track mix.
It didn't wow me anywhere near as much as when I first heard the re-mixed 5.1 on the SE DVD, on much lesser gear, 17 years earlier.
I'm usually a traditionalist too.

[BorisKarloffice]

Originally Posted by Mose Harper

They probably figure, as I would if I were in their position, that any uber-fans that truly cared about the 70mm mix, would have seen that as enough of a selling point to pick it up sometime in the almost five years it's been easily available.

If you are just discovering, or hitting a desire for this film now, then you are %-wise probably from a demo that cares more about the latest & greatest Atmos mix than any legacy audio option.

TBH, I'd just finished upgrading the audio end of my HT the year before that disc was released, and I was excited to hear that track mix.
It didn't wow me anywhere near as much as when I first heard the re-mixed 5.1 on the SE DVD, on much lesser gear, 17 years earlier.
I'm usually a traditionalist too.

But why go through the effort of authoring a new disc just to remove it? It would have been LESS work for them to just keep printing the same disc they've been making for 5 years.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by BorisKarloffice

But why go through the effort of authoring a new disc just to remove it? It would have been LESS work for them to just keep printing the same disc they've been making for 5 years.

Probably so the menus match across the discs in the set, and they also probably wanted Atmos to be the default track now that its more prevalent on consumer audio hardware.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by BorisKarloffice

But why go through the effort of authoring a new disc just to remove it? It would have been LESS work for them to just keep printing the same disc they've been making for 5 years.

Yeah, just when you think Warners couldn’t get any more Warnersy, they go and do this shit. But I had a feeling about this, even with all the rumours from capedwonder guy, so I didn’t sell the old disc. Just knew that Warners would bodge it somehow.

[Bolty]

Yep. Never sell the old disc until you have the "better" one in your hand.
Made that mistake before.

[Dr. T]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Ultimately, even if the 2018 disc is the only disc ever to feature that 5.1 track, the new restoration with Atmos will still be the better disc in the end.

You've never compared the Atmos to the 70mm six track, have you? The Atmos is completely revisionist, having been derived from the 2001 SE mix. It's filled with new, modern sound effects and doesn't evoke the Oscar nominated mix created in 1978. Picture wise, yes Superman can be improved, but any audio apart from the 70mm six track mix is a downgrade.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Dr. T

You've never compared the Atmos to the 70mm six track, have you? The Atmos is completely revisionist, having been derived from the 2001 SE mix. It's filled with new, modern sound effects and doesn't evoke the Oscar nominated mix created in 1978. Picture wise, yes Superman can be improved, but any audio apart from the 70mm six track mix is a downgrade.

That's fine, the problem is the 2018 release has the 5.1 track married to the problematic video transfer. My point is, I'll take (and I think most would take) a release with a better video transfer that rectifies the video issues of the 2018 release + atmos track only any day of the week, regardless how good the 5.1 track is; all the tracks of course is best (atmos, 5.1, 2.0), but as you know that isn't always an option. I believe the Superman reboot comes out in 2025, so there will likely be a deluge of catalog releases leading up to or alongside that release where I assume we'll see this new video transfer on disc.

Been doing this too long to worry about which disc with the crappy video transfer sounds better when both will be irrelevant in short order.

[TheOneWithThePrize]

Guess I was fortunate enough when ordering from CDON that I got one with the 70mm six track. Through all the discourse on this thread I've been humming and hawing whether to pick up the old release or take the chance the disc in the new set would somehow keep it.

Could very well be we still have old stock and newer pressings haven't reached our shores yet. Maybe if I'd gone with Amz UK, Amz US or (more likely) WowHD it would be a different outcome.

[CreasyBear]

As long as the original stereo mix is included, I don't see what the big deal is. The lossy 5.1 mix isn't terribly different anyway.

[Bolty]

[KC-Technerd]

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

As long as the original stereo mix is included, I don't see what the big deal is. Thr lossy 5.1 mix isn't terribly different anyway.

You obviously haven't listened to both on a quality 5.1 or 7.1 system. They are surprisingly different. The Dolby Surround mix sounds darn near monaural in comparison to the Dolby 6-track. I'm assuming this was a result of concerns for monaural compatibility when creating the SVA mix for 35mm Dolby Stereo prints. It was still quite early in the Dolby Stereo era.

[starmike]

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

As long as the original stereo mix is included, I don't see what the big deal is. Thr lossy 5.1 mix isn't terribly different anyway.

The 70mm mix is miles ahead of the crappy 2.0 mix.

[KC-Technerd]

Originally Posted by BorisKarloffice

Okay so for anyone who hasn't been following long in the thread for the box set, this disc I have (as far as I can tell without having the 2018 disc in hand) has the exact same video presentation, with the orange flash on Reeve's name, the nuclear highlights on Krypton, etc. To be 100% positive someone with both discs would have to compare them side by side, but we're pretty sure this is the case.

The menu on the new disc is different and the 5.1 option is not present, period. There's also no digital copy included, and while the outer cover has been amended to reflect this, the audio specs weren't updated so they now incorrectly claim there's a 5.1 DD track included.

By all appearances, this is the disc that's going to be in the upcoming box set, because its specs perfectly match the details on the back cover that we've seen: DTS-HD 2.0 but not DD 5.1. It seems WB quietly replaced the old disc without telling anyone and forgot to update the back of box correctly.

So if you want the 5.1, do not throw out your 2018 disc and do not order new on Amazon right now, which is where I got mine. The new edition does not mention a digital copy anywhere on the cover and it does not come with a slipcover.

If this is indeed the case, then there is less than zero reason for anyone who has the 2018 disc to buy a new one.

[dead_cowboy]

Originally Posted by KC-Technerd

If this is indeed the case, then there is less than zero reason for anyone who has the 2018 disc to buy a new one.

Thankfully, I’m in that boat. I have the 2018 disc and I just ordered the single of Superman II from the UK. I have no interest in the third or fourth film. If and when Superman Returns ever comes out, that completes a trilogy for me.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by dead_cowboy

Thankfully, I’m in that boat. I have the 2018 disc and I just ordered the single of Superman II from the UK. I have no interest in the third or fourth film. If and when Superman Returns ever comes out, that completes a trilogy for me.

People seem to have missed this but WB did the same thing to Superman 2 4K - they dropped the 5.1 track entirely in favor of Atmos + 2.0. So if the 5.1 is important it would be best to stick with the 1080p Blu-ray of Superman 2.

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by KC-Technerd

You obviously haven't listened to both on a quality 5.1 or 7.1 system. They are surprisingly different. The Dolby Surround mix sounds darn near monaural in comparison to the Dolby 6-track. I'm assuming this was a result of concerns for monaural compatibility when creating the SVA mix for 35mm Dolby Stereo prints. It was still quite early in the Dolby Stereo era.

"Obviously."

My rig is probably better than yours. Calm down. The 5.1 track sounds okay. The 2.0 track sounds okay. But continue to get worked up over incidental matters.