No Escape / Escape From Absolom 4K from Turbine

[DMRI2006]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Oh and by the way in the extra features the director himself talks about budgetary issues and how they didn't bother with big budget producers like Jerry Bruckheimer because they could afford him. Lol.

Let's try this so maybe you will understand:

LOW BUDGET movies in 1994 are Full Moon movies made by Richard Band. Or cheap indie movies made on a shoestring.

NO ESCAPE is not a LOW BUDGET movie. Neither is it high budget -- but I never said it was. Nobody in this thread did.

When they talk about avoiding Jerry Bruckheimer, they were trying to maximize value for the production given its story and amount of action. A Bruckheimer version of this movie shot in the U.S. back in the day, loaded up on SFX, would've cost a hell of a lot more than how they shot it.

Yet, that still doesn't mean it's a LOW budget movie. It wasn't. And despite not having worked with a high powered producer like Bruckheimer, it still cost the same as BAD BOYS did, which is a fact you seem to avoid discussing altogether.

Do you understand the difference between high and low budget movies? And that there are films that exist in the middle? Maybe read up on it sometime, might make your arguments more engaging instead of you continuously trying to convince yourself this was a B-movie made for peanuts, and that the Unearthed disc is fab and all because you think it's fine for the cheapo production you believe it to be.

[Filmmaker]

Okay, I’ve been meaning to post this for a few days. Time to kill this idiotic color debate with fire. Here is the HBO DVD made four years after the film’s theatrical release, followed by the moribund Unearthed BD, followed by the precisely-as-it-should-be color of the Turbine. Spend the rest of your lives banging drums and pounding pulpits about the sharpening and upscaling trickery of the 4K and I won’t raise any protest, but the grandstanding about the Unearthed disc offering a more accurate color balance than the Turbine ends here and now for all but the most deranged and incorrigible among us:

[DMRI2006]

Thank you Filmmaker. The DVD represents what I recall the theatrical appearance to be. The Turbine transfer, color wise, is obviously closer aligned to that intended look than the Unearthed disc. It's not even close which one is closer to what the film looked like, and should look like.

[Geoff D]

Heh. The turbine would appear to be closer...but still nowhere near the DVD. I will not dare to venture which is "correct" but I'm not sure anything much is being proved here, apart from the moving target of what film looks like.

[Filmmaker]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Heh. The turbine would appear to be closer...but still nowhere near the DVD. I will not dare to venture which is "correct" but I'm not sure anything much is being proved here, apart from the moving target of what film looks like.

I’m pretty sure the DVD is just “cooked” in that simplistic way a lot of DVDs are, but it’s abundantly clear that the Turbine and the DVD are of the same temperature, if not saturation level (nor would I expect them to be since HDR offers the capability of a much more nuanced palette). The Unearthed disc is just way off in left field doing its own denuded thing. If color balance is a moving target to that degree well then shit, let’s just bang out a black-and-white version and say, eh, it’s all a moving target anyway.

[Geoff D]

Why not? I get the feeling that some people would buy it anyway as long as it came in a fookin limited edition mediabook

[TheShape31]

Originally Posted by Filmmaker

Okay, I’ve been meaning to post this for a few days. Time to kill this idiotic color debate with fire. Here is the HBO DVD made four years after the film’s theatrical release, followed by the moribund Unearthed BD, followed by the precisely-as-it-should-be color of the Turbine. Spend the rest of your lives banging drums and pounding pulpits about the sharpening and upscaling trickery of the 4K and I won’t raise any protest, but the grandstanding about the Unearthed disc offering a more accurate color balance than the Turbine ends here and now for all but the most deranged and incorrigible among us:

[Show spoiler]

With what evidence can you possibly assert that the old-ass DVD is “correct”? It looks to me like three different studios put out 3 vastly different transfers without anyone from the film being involved or officially signing off on them.

This is a ‘pick your own poison’ situation where there is no right or wrong release. Feel free to choose your preference, but to attempting to go beyond the realm of pure opinion is just blowing smoke.

[Filmmaker]

[TheShape31]

I’ll also add that in doing an A/B comparison between the Turbine and Unearthed discs, the latter looks better in motion. There’s no artifacting like the Turbine due to the exorbitant amount of post-processing and tinkering. On top of that, the 5.1 track from Unearthed sounded the best to me compared to the rest. Caps can be a reasonable guide for what to expect, but you simply cannot judge any release completely by them alone. There’s always more to the story in motion. All I can say at this point is that every release thus far has been greatly lacking one way or another. I can only hope that a proper 4k scan be done at some point down the line.

[Filmmaker]

Originally Posted by TheShape31

I’ll also add that in doing an A/B comparison between the Turbine and Unearthed discs, the latter looks better in motion. There’s no artifacting like the Turbine due to the exorbitant amount of post-processing and tinkering. On top of that, the 5.1 track from Unearthed sounded the best to me compared to the rest.

[wesslan]

Turbine looks great. Sure there might/probably be some mumbo jumbo under it but I'll take all the new atmos mixes they do and don't hate their "upscaling" on Crying freeman, this and Leatherface.

[lgans316]

One thing for sure is we can all Escape from Absolom but there is no escape from Peter Jackson's Middle Earth.

[Muyfa666]

I just got the Turbine 4K, well aware of it's technical limitations. I may give it a spin tonight. I haven't seen it since the VHS days, so I don't expect it to disappoint. :-)

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Filmmaker

Okay, I’ve been meaning to post this for a few days. Time to kill this idiotic color debate with fire. Here is the HBO DVD made four years after the film’s theatrical release, followed by the moribund Unearthed BD, followed by the precisely-as-it-should-be color of the Turbine. Spend the rest of your lives banging drums and pounding pulpits about the sharpening and upscaling trickery of the 4K and I won’t raise any protest, but the grandstanding about the Unearthed disc offering a more accurate color balance than the Turbine ends here and now for all but the most deranged and incorrigible among us:

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Heh. The turbine would appear to be closer...but still nowhere near the DVD. I will not dare to venture which is "correct" but I'm not sure anything much is being proved here, apart from the moving target of what film looks like.

Based on both the history of TURBINE and UNEARTHED

* Turbine likely altered the studio's provided color grading to look like the DVD, and in general what they personally felt was pleasing

* Unearthed likely encoded the studio master as-is, because (unlike Turbine) Unearthed does not tinker around with the studio materials and instead just delivers the masters as-is

Originally Posted by TheShape31

I’ll also add that in doing an A/B comparison between the Turbine and Unearthed discs, the latter looks better in motion. There’s no artifacting like the Turbine due to the exorbitant amount of post-processing and tinkering. On top of that, the 5.1 track from Unearthed sounded the best to me compared to the rest. Caps can be a reasonable guide for what to expect, but you simply cannot judge any release completely by them alone. There’s always more to the story in motion. All I can say at this point is that every release thus far has been greatly lacking one way or another. I can only hope that a proper 4k scan be done at some point down the line.

This is not surprising. There is no free lunch, and that includes with extensive digital processing. I just wanted the best delivery of the studio master and the Unearthed disc is that. The Turbine disc is Krekel on steroids.

[Filmmaker]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Based on both the history of TURBINE and UNEARTHED

* Turbine likely altered the studio's provided color grading to look like the DVD, and in general what they personally felt was pleasing

* Unearthed likely encoded the studio master as-is, because (unlike Turbine) Unearthed does not tinker around with the studio materials and instead just delivers the masters as-is

There is no free lunch, and that includes with extensive digital processing. I just wanted the best delivery of the studio master and the Unearthed disc is that. The Turbine disc is Krekel on steroids.

[DMRI2006]

There's just no convincing the crowd Filmmaker lol. The Unearthed disc is lousy, and people that think they are some bastion of presenting things "as is" needs to look no further than this GRAND TOUR disc they put out. It looks like a feeble old master and yet they are claiming it's from a "4k scan of the OCN". Hilarious lol.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by DMRI2006

There's just no convincing the crowd Filmmaker lol. The Unearthed disc is lousy, and people that think they are some bastion of presenting things "as is" needs to look no further than this GRAND TOUR disc they put out. It looks like a feeble old master and yet they are claiming it's from a "4k scan of the OCN". Hilarious lol.

If the turbine "4K remaster" wasn't an AI upscaled thingamibob then you all would look mighty fine up on those high horses, but meh

[Markgway]

I thought the Unearthed grade looked natural in motion.

Maybe someone from Kiwiland can tell us which is most accurate?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by DMRI2006

There's just no convincing the crowd Filmmaker lol. The Unearthed disc is lousy, and people that think they are some bastion of presenting things "as is" needs to look no further than this GRAND TOUR disc they put out. It looks like a feeble old master and yet they are claiming it's from a "4k scan of the OCN". Hilarious lol.

Grand Tour looked good, very natural scan as well with finely rendered grain. 4K is just the resolution of the scan, it does not imply any additional amount of cleanup or restoration

Not every film's elements are in the best shape, but I'll take a natural scan of an older element over Turbine's AI nightmare any day of the week

[Filmmaker]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

If the turbine "4K remaster" wasn't an AI upscaled thingamibob then you all would look mighty fine up on those high horses, but meh

I don’t care how I look, only how I feel, and I feel mighty fine on this particular high horse. Digital trickery is used on any number of films to freshen them and restore an accurate look without performing a literal restoration of the source elements. Brass tacks, does it work or not? In my opinion, the Turbine is a dramatically superior presentation of what the film was designed to look like. The Unearthed disc is inarguably less tweaked and managed but it uses a pathetic, life-leached source and just lets it sit there like a dog’s yard turd. I guess I prefer this particular hottie with her makeup and heels on.