HDMI Cables

[Uncle Leo]

Originally Posted by Cr00zng

While I agree to a certain extent that it is almost like turn on the light, it either works or not, there can be differences. These mainly show up at longer distances where attenuation, cross-talk, magnetic interference, etc may degrade the binary signals. This can cause the image to degrade since there's no error correction built-in to HDMI.
For up to six feet on the other hand, any cables that meets the HDMI 1.3 specs will work just fine.

Cr00zng

But at the end of the cable when it degrades it either gets there or it doesn't. Meaning you get the whole thing or nothing. When you take out some of the ones and zeros because the band with was so small it could not decipher if it was a one or zero, its just game over. You get nada, not a diminished weaker signal, you get an incomplete one and that equates to NO SIGNAL.

[Cr00zng]

Originally Posted by Uncle Leo

But at the end of the cable when it degrades it either gets there or it doesn't. Meaning you get the whole thing or nothing. When you take out some of the ones and zeros because the band with was so small it could not decipher if it was a one or zero, its just game over. You get nada, not a diminished weaker signal, you get an incomplete one and that equates to NO SIGNAL.

In theory the BD player only sends the signal of 1's, the 0's are the lack of signal; as in on and off...

Other than that, you are pretty much correct for the most part. You can get a "diminished signal" that still produce a picture; however, it will introduce artifact in the picture. Most receiving units can correct these signals and if they can't, they just give up and no picture shows.

Cr00zng

[xneox]

Originally Posted by John72953

Let's not try to get our shorts tied up into a knot over this, okay fellows?

Personal attacks don't to the thread any good either.

John

You are correct sir.

mj - I apologize for calling you out bro.

[xneox]

Originally Posted by Cr00zng

They do deliver as good of a product as any other company that makes/sells HDMI cables and do update their existing line of products.

Agreed...and I don't actually hate them as a company. Participating in "Monster-hate" doesn't mean I hate the company...it just means I don't have a problem telling it like I see it in the context of HDMI cables.

I actually rock a good number of their analog joints, and have seen how going from a sub-standard analog cable to their offering has made a huge difference in quality.

I just can't get past how much money they (AND retailers) rape people for in HDMI land. It's as if they sat down during the inception of HDMI and said "hey - let's take what we charge for a high-end component video set, add that to what we charge for a high-end 7.1 analog set, and slap a price on the HDMI...after all, it DOES do ALL of that."

And THAT, in my humble opinion, is the main reason they've gotten away with it for so long. ONE cable does it all, so OF COURSE it cost a lot.

[mjbethancourt]

Originally Posted by Uncle Leo

But at the end of the cable when it degrades it either gets there or it doesn't. Meaning you get the whole thing or nothing. When you take out some of the ones and zeros because the band with was so small it could not decipher if it was a one or zero, its just game over. You get nada, not a diminished weaker signal, you get an incomplete one and that equates to NO SIGNAL.

No, Leo, it's billions of 1's and 0's, not just a 1 or a 0. A signal that is missing bits and pieces does not equate to no signal, it would represent itself as a degraded signal, i.e. snow, lost frames, and various video artifacts. If you have digital cable TV, I imagine you should be familiar with some of the annoying effects of errors in digital signal.

[Uncle Leo]

Originally Posted by mjbethancourt

No, Leo, it's billions of 1's and 0's, not just a 1 or a 0. A signal that is missing bits and pieces does not equate to no signal, it would represent itself as a degraded signal, i.e. snow, lost frames, and various video artifacts. If you have digital cable TV, I imagine you should be familiar with some of the annoying effects of errors in digital signal.

OK I do understand its a s88t load of 1's and 0's but the quality we lose are BIG chunks like the ones you mentioned not color quality or sharpness and other subtleties but really noticeable stuff. Meaning if I lost a few billion digital bits I would see it immediately. Right? As opposed to that one looks a little better.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by erict

• [B]Designed for maximum performance of Blu-ray™ Disc players
• For 120Hz displays with 12-Bit color.

I'm curious to know what Blu-ray Disc has 120Hz on it?
That's the most mis-leading part of these specs.

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

I'm curious to know what Blu-ray Disc has 120Hz on it?
That's the most mis-leading part of these specs.

LOL. That kind of marketing reminds me of the latest DirecTV adds in the cable company boardroom where the one guy talks about promoting the fact that neither they nor DirecTV offer 1,000,080p programming, so he's just "leveled the playing field".

Legitimate marketing is one thing, but the deceptive marketing by Monster (IMO), boarders false advertising.

[reyz]

my friend recently passed me a brand-new Monster Ultra 600 cable that he didnt need and on the back of the packaging it says compatible up to 720p/1080i but NOWHERE does it state anything about 1080p..

monster-hating aside.. will this cable be actually able to transmit 1080p resolution? i've heard that non-rated Monster cables like these ones usually have bandwiths of up to 2.23 Gbps only..

btw, anyone heard of brands such as

Atake
Silis
Edworks
HDMI Labs
Draco

and care to comment?

[reyz]

it all makes sense now.. haha.

i checked out the website of a brand selling at the store near my home and this is what it put:

http://www.atake.com/html/product/HDMI.html

Features

ATake Super High Resolution HDMI and DVI cables offer impeccable digital image quality at all HDTV resolutions including 1080p with cable lengths up to 49.5 feet.

Eliminates unnecessary signal conversions.
Supports standard, enhanced, or high-definition video at 24 bits/pixel, 165MHz max clock frequency.
Supports up to 8 channel digital audio on a single cable eliminating costly A/D signal conversions.
Offers Bi-directional control signal transfer.
Offers 5 Gbps bandwidth, 55% spared for future expansion.
Offers 1 simple, user-friendly connector.
Backward compatible to DVI hot plug enabled assemblies up to 5 meters in length.
Per HDMI standard, HDTV sent as 16x9 & SDTV as 4x3 over 30 AWG 100 ohm, .5 amp, 500 VAC DWV double shielded cable.
Long Lengths available, ATC tested up to 12M and up to 40 M when using EQ technology.



Never have i seen a website so honest and reliable in its specs especially considering this is a China/Japan based company.


well well.. anyway there have been tests/reviews of other hdmi cables with bandwidths of 2.23 Gbps upwards that show virtually similar A/V quality as the Monster ones right?

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

More Monster false-advertising. Here is a good summary from dobyblue posted some time ago:

That's actually not a good post at all and was made before I understood a little better what's happening in the player. They give uncompressed specs because indeed the signal is uncompressed in the player.

This post is a little more accurate:

1080p60 8bit colour:

2200 * 1125 = 2475000 number of pixels (Horizontal Resolution + Hblank * Vertical Resolution + VBlank)
2475000 * 30 = 74250000 (8-bit color - travelling in a 10-bit word length x 3 channels)
74250000 * 60 = 4455000000 (60 frames per second)
(4.46 Gbps)

Of course I'd bet $100 that the low-end Monster Cable would capably pass 1080p60 12-bit colour no problem at all and based on Gizmodo, Audioholics, etc., testing I'd be right.

So please don't quote that post anymore because it makes me look like an idiot, haha.

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

So please don't quote that post anymore because it makes me look like an idiot, haha.

Now I feel like an idiot.

(I won't tell if you don't )

Post deleted.

[dobyblue]

1080p60 signal through 100ft of unamplified HDMI cable...impossible?

Nope, Belden cable and Blue Jeans Cable did it last week!!

http://www.audioholics.com/news/indu...er-hdmi-record

Belden demonstrated the unique cable performance properties of their HDMI cable by running a 1080p/60 digital video signal from a BD player to a generic display - through 100 feet of HDMI. This demonstration was featured live throughout last week's InfoComm/NSCA tradeshow in Orlando, Florida.

You can read more at the Audioholics website by following the link.

[Cr00zng]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

1080p60 signal through 100ft of unamplified HDMI cable...impossible?

Nope, Belden cable and Blue Jeans Cable did it last week!!

http://www.audioholics.com/news/indu...er-hdmi-record

Belden actually holds the patent for the bonded pair technology that made this possible; Blue Jeans on the other hand used the Belden bonded pair wire for setting the 1080p/60 signal record record. The wire in itself is made in the US; however, terminating the wire in the HDMI connection is done somewhere in China.

In any case, for 20 bucks one can have a six feet HDMI cable with the 28AWG bonded pair. Or, just buy the Monster cable for 100 Bucks, it's good to have choices...

Cr00zng

[Cr00zng]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

(I won't tell if you don't )

Tell what???

Cr00zng

[xneox]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

1080p60 signal through 100ft of unamplified HDMI cable...impossible?

Nope, Belden cable and Blue Jeans Cable did it last week!!

http://www.audioholics.com/news/indu...er-hdmi-record



You can read more at the Audioholics website by following the link.

Sweet. That's what I'm using for my blu. At 8'. Overkill, I know. But damn...it was still only $24.

[Cr00zng]

Originally Posted by xneox

Sweet. That's what I'm using for my blu. At 8'. Overkill, I know. But damn...it was still only $24.

It certainly looks like overkill...

I've got a couple of BJC Series-F2 Belden Bonded-Pair HDMI Cables 6' (28 AWG) last week that replaced Monoprice cables. With my system neither the BD's nor the cable box' PQ looked noticeably different. Other than the $15 per cable difference in pricing that is

BJC delivers really good cables and that's why I went with them. Yes, I know... overkill...

Cr00zng

[xneox]

Over the weekend, on the new display, I noticed a lot of grain and some sparkles in Lord of War. I had really flexed the end of my Belden Series 1 from BJC when I hung the V10, as the inputs are lower, and I tilt down, and I hadn't discovered the 90 degree HDMI adapter yet.

ANYWAY, I went straight to BB to find out for myself, with my eyes. I put down $130 for the Monster Cable THX1000 8' HDMI. Went home. Connected it.

The grain was worse.

Needless to say, BB owns the cable again (fantastic return policy, that BB). Now this certainly illustrates further the benefit to avoiding Monster Cable, but if truly all 1s and 0s, why did the cable actually make a visible difference, if only for the worse?

Oh, and the grain and sparkles were in the movie itself. I figured as much, but whatever.

[Cr00zng]

Originally Posted by xneox

Over the weekend, on the new display, I noticed a lot of grain and some sparkles in Lord of War. I had really flexed the end of my Belden Series 1 from BJC when I hung the V10, as the inputs are lower, and I tilt down, and I hadn't discovered the 90 degree HDMI adapter yet.

ANYWAY, I went straight to BB to find out for myself, with my eyes. I put down $130 for the Monster Cable THX1000 8' HDMI. Went home. Connected it.

The grain was worse.

Needless to say, BB owns the cable again (fantastic return policy, that BB). Now this certainly illustrates further the benefit to avoiding Monster Cable, but if truly all 1s and 0s, why did the cable actually make a visible difference, if only for the worse?

Oh, and the grain and sparkles were in the movie itself. I figured as much, but whatever.

Amazon has a loads of angled HDMI adapters and cables, I don't know about the quality but they are available.

Cr00zng

[xneox]

Originally Posted by Cr00zng

Amazon has a loads of angled HDMI adapters and cables, I don't know about the quality but they are available.

Cr00zng

I actually ended up buying a Monster Cable right angle adapter @ BB when I returned the HDMI cable...I wanted it immediately, and it was only $16. Works great!