Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Wendell R. Breland]

Click here then make sure to select US then enter your zip. It worked for me and listed several dealers.

[bhampton]

I managed to order the speakers Wendell recommended directly from the Paradigm website. After trying all the other payment methods, I decided to try with Paypal and that went through and didn't charge me extra. (I was thinking Paypal would add on a fee which is why I tried every other option several times.)

Ah well, we can all rest easy now that I don't have any custom (cray cray) ideas.

[cheez avenger]

Started watching Citadel and am not digging it so far. It's rather bland. It's on PRIME in 4K HDR/5.1, which is shocking since the season cost a reported 300 million dollars. I'd expect some Atmos at the very least.

Some good news - Drops of God on ATV+ is freakin' awesome! The first 3 episodes of that are live and it's in 4K DV/Atmos. It's a trilingual show in English, French, and Japanese. The lead French actress has a Jessica Chastain thing going. The series is apparently based on an anime.

Drops of God — Official Trailer | Apple TV+ - YouTube

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by bhampton

The sad thing is while you are paying a lot for that super symmetrical internet connectivity, the online version of movies are heavily compressed for people with average internet capacity.

What Internet speed do I need to watch Vudu UHD?

We recommend broadband Internet with a minimum 11 Mbps network connection.


The amazing thing is no matter what type of internet you have you still have the option to improve that fantastic looking and sounding video by getting the disc instead of the vudu streaming copy.

The disc will often come with the dudu copy priced correctly at free.

and symmetrical is even more unnecessary. There is a whole movie that needs to get to you in the time of the movie, you don't need to send them a movie in the time the movie plays.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

and symmetrical is even more unnecessary. There is a whole movie that needs to get to you in the time of the movie, you don't need to send them a movie in the time the movie plays.

Alchav must be sending his home movies to all the streaming providers.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by lgans316

I have triple checked BTTF on iTunes. It is constantly streaming at 23-24 Mbps for me on iTunes APP via ATV 4K box. I am talking about average video bit rate and not indicated. Btw, Apple was throttling bit rates on movies streamed via Apple TV app outside ATV 4K box. Sadly I don't have my good old router and companion softwares in my new place to dive deep.

However, if you have a phone with 5G and good data limit, create Wi-Fi hotspot, connect ATV 4K to it, play BTTF for like 10 minutes and check how much data was munched assuming the DEV HUD is indicating correct numbers whilst playback.

I had one my networking colleague check Avatar Way of the Water on iTunes and he reported about 35 GB of data was streamed averaging at 24-25 Mbps which tallies with the indicated bit rates. This also tallies with folks who watched a WebRIP of the same and its size was 35 GB as well.

Also randomly spot checked my purchases from many years ago and the numbers haven't not changed one bit on iTunes and MA.

I am a bit lost, you talked about video bitrate and streamed data/router.

those are very different things. A movie will have, for example audio and video combined in the stream. In order for the data to get to you it needs network over head that tells each packet how to get to you. Network packets are fixed length so there can be some extra waste, and the packets will need to have extra overhead in error correction and timing.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

and symmetrical is even more unnecessary.

Trying to teach that poster is not possible. Explanations with charts and graphics have been lost on him.

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I am a bit lost, you talked about video bitrate and streamed data/router.

I believe that poster may be more open to learning.

Tried to explain this to AVS posters > 13 years ago and it took a long time before some caught on. Recently posted the large variation of data rates from AMC-21 satellite (transponder 24) but all the video on that transponder is CBR. Not real sure why many have such trouble understanding this. From > 2 years ago:

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

All I did was show there may or may not be ANY correlation between peak data being received and the current video data rate because of the sizeable buffer (temp memory) used in streaming devices. Its like a gallon bucket (buffer) with a ½" pipe attached to the bottom (data out) and you are dumping in a cup of water at a time (streaming data in).

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

and symmetrical is even more unnecessary. There is a whole movie that needs to get to you in the time of the movie, you don't need to send them a movie in the time the movie plays.

Like anything in Technology what isn't needed today will be essential tomorrow. How many times in computers have they said, you won't need that much memory or storage. I believe communicating with that Content Server makes for a Solid Consistent Stream. We are headed for a Fiber Network World, and Symmetrical will be the Gold Standard!

[bhampton]

The future of streaming is Ads.

https://www.theverge.com/2023/4/29/2...ubi-pluto-roku



I guess symmetrical connection is preferred so they can collect your personal data and provide you with even more specifically targeted ads.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Trying to teach that poster is not possible. Explanations with charts and graphics have been lost on him.

Originally Posted by alchav21

I believe communicating with that Content Server makes for a Solid Consistent Stream.

Living proof!! Really

Sometime back Vilya said many of my post are too complicated and that is one reason I try to use pictures, graphics, tables, charts, etc. to explain techno stuff. They say a picture is worth a 1K of words, alchav21 proves that is not always so.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Sometime back Vilya said many of my post are too complicated and that is one reason I try to use pictures, graphics, tables, charts, etc. to explain techno stuff. They say a picture is worth a 1K of words, alchav21 proves that is not always so.

All the pictures and graphs are nice specs, but until you test it in real time it's just information. How many times have you heard, well it worked in the Lab but it's not working in real time. I have no problem Streaming from any Provider and the Picture and Sound Quality works great for me. So everyone has to see what works for them in Real Time with the setup and equipment they have!

[bhampton]

We live in a time when access to information is plentiful. For those who want to learn it's never been easier. For those who want to cling to mis conceptions it's only going to get more difficult. As we have access to more information we witness those who want to fight for the right to be wrong.

Enjoying streaming is valid. Thinking it's the same as the higher quality media available currently elsewhere is not.

Beyond a certain point having a better internet connection doesn't help because you have to negotiate with the connection on the other end of the transmission that you have no control over. I was surprised recently at my second home because we have AT&T fiber optic internet and a video I was watching buffered and stalled and became a blocky mess. The content was on Prime Video.

If I send a txt message from a hotel wifi with a lot of traffic and someone receives it via his super powered wonderful fiber connection .... is the font crisper on his side ? Are any grammatical errors suddenly fixed ? If I download a Jpeg with high resolution and someone else downloads the same picture with less pixels what is the role of our connections provided the download completes ?

Streaming video is optimized for the use case which is often the end user with an iPad or TV. Physical media is optimized to make the best use of the medium which usually results in better care in the mastering and far less compression.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by bhampton

We live in a time when access to information is plentiful. For those who want to learn it's never been easier. For those who want to cling to mis conceptions it's only going to get more difficult. As we have access to more information we witness those who want to fight for the right to be wrong.

Enjoying streaming is valid. Thinking it's the same as the higher quality media available currently elsewhere is not.

Beyond a certain point having a better internet connection doesn't help because you have to negotiate with the connection on the other end of the transmission that you have no control over. I was surprised recently at my second home because we have AT&T fiber optic Internet and a video I was watching buffered and stalled and became a blocky mess. The content was on Prime Video.

It's a bit like when a video is missing sub titles. No amount of good connection or better media source is going to "fix" it.

Not just that, folk like Alchav are ignoring the Elephant in the room that is carbon emissions. The more these campaigners and climate bodies investigate streaming video, the more they will press for things like SD or 720p being the default setting when people sign up to these services. Decent full HD or 4K costs will be passed down to customers even more than now with ‘guilt’ taxes for anything higher than 720p (which uses about 2.5Mbps apparently).
There is pressure from these climate obsessives for Netflix and the likes to include customer emissions in their overall emissions plans, I think this will be become a concrete thing by the middle of the decade.

What’s more, I think SD or 720p will become far more acceptable to the masses when it’s part of a cheaper or free offering with adverts. Free is a good equaliser.
Let’s be clear though, most of the population are already fine with SD or 720p.

So, many moving parts and digital distribution fans shouldn’t presume that what we have now is what we will have in 2030, a downgrade could be in the pipeline.

Heck, the EU have already started with 4K/8K tv emissions and have set very stingy restrictions over here.

[bhampton]

Streaming is replacing television and the radio.

I watched plenty of broadcast TV before I had the ability to buy a VCR and take control of my media.

Streaming and physical media are both going to have a purpose. Neither one is "the future" and a person who wants to buy content is not a luddite. Digital picture frames and the Nook did nothing to take away from the value and charm of printed media. I bought a few items on vinyl recently but I don't think I will ever own a record player. I want to have the item and support the artist and that's enough of a reason.

Streaming will give more artists a chance to be discovered. Physical media will give the artists more royalties.

Also - Loving Drops of God on ATV+, thanks for the heads up Cheez

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by alchav21

All the pictures and graphs are nice specs, but until you test it in real time it's just information. How many times have you heard, well it worked in the Lab but it's not working in real time. I have no problem Streaming from any Provider and the Picture and Sound Quality works great for me. So everyone has to see what works for them in Real Time with the setup and equipment they have!

Have always said you were clueless about the technicalities of A/V, streaming, codecs, data rates, etc. You make stupid statements like that which reinforces just how clueless you are.

Do yourself a favor, pick other subjects to post about and leave the technical stuff to those that understands the subject.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by bhampton

Also - Loving Drops of God on ATV+, thanks for the heads up Cheez

Will add to my list to checkout.

Season Two of Prehistoric Planet on ATV+ starts on May 22.

[alchav21]

ManCallOtto.jpg

I bought and added this to my Movie Collection through Vudu in UHD. Tom Hanks knows how to portray a great character, very good Movie.

There is always a balance we have to maintain in our ever changing environment, especially with Climate and our Carbon Footprint. Everyone has their priorities and where their spending will give them the most Bang for their Buck. I have Fiber with IPTV and an Intranet DVR, and access to all the Streaming Providers through my Android Sony UHD TV. My Streaming Quality is Excellent, but IMO it's all Subjective and very dependent on your setup and equipment!

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Like anything in Technology what isn't needed today will be essential tomorrow. How many times in computers have they said, you won't need that much memory or storage. I believe communicating with that Content Server makes for a Solid Consistent Stream. We are headed for a Fiber Network World, and Symmetrical will be the Gold Standard!

So let me get this straight, your point is that I should be paying 20$ more a month for internet now (difference in price between what I pay now and the closest plan that offers symmetrical)because 30 years from now I might decide to offer Anthonyflix to my friends and Family where they can stream films from my home while I stream films from theirs?

why can't I just wait 30 years for it?


as for gold standard, when I started off with dial-up it was symmetrical what is the uplaod and download speed and if they are both enough that is important and not if they happen to be the same

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

So let me get this straight, your point is that I should be paying 20$ more a month for internet now (difference in price between what I pay now and the closest plan that offers symmetrical)because 30 years from now I might decide to offer Anthonyflix to my friends and Family where they can stream films from my home while I stream films from theirs?

why can't I just wait 30 years for it?


as for gold standard, when I started off with dial-up it was symmetrical what is the uplaod and download speed and if they are both enough that is important and not if they happen to be the same

I want to know more about this Anthonyflix!

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by alchav21

All the pictures and graphs are nice specs, but until you test it in real time it's just information. How many times have you heard, well it worked in the Lab but it's not working in real time. I have no problem Streaming from any Provider and the Picture and Sound Quality works great for me. So everyone has to see what works for them in Real Time with the setup and equipment they have!

1) you do realize you are kind of contradicting yourself. If the charts and graphs from a lab show streaming works for someone wanting the best quality, then you could use what you said to say it might not work in real time. But if we assume Wendel's posts show it does not work in a lab why would you assume what you said means there is a chance it could work in real time?


2) You do realize when Wendell posts his data from his home that it happens to be in real time and not in a lab.