Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[cheez avenger]

Just pre-ordered the new Spears & Munsil 4K set for $47.95 plus $5 for shipping. The price will shoot up to $59.95 after May 15th. I bought it from these guys.

https://www.biaslighting.com/product...SABEgLIYvD_BwE

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I've always said that Technology moves forward, you can hang on to the The Past for as long as you want but Technology will win and Run You Over. Streaming is here to stay, and with Gigabit Fiber Networks Picture and Sound Quality will be better than any Disc!

I remember in School, College when Calculators were restricted, and then Computers with Memory and Storage. Now Streaming and AI, but Technology will always Win and Move Forward!

Well, apart from the usual mistruths, picture and sound will NEVER be better than disc. Why? Many reasons but the latest one (in my opinion and prediction) is that these studios and streamers are under scrutiny and are going to have to toe the line and offer bit rates and resolution that minimise energy emissions. Sorry to disappoint, but expect 720p as the ‘across the board’ offering in a few years.
Industry bodies and climate suites will try to bring legislation where streaming services have to offer a baseline picture quality that uses the least bit rate possible to get a watchable picture. Maybe even really extreme and SD.

Forget 4K and certainly 8K. Heck, even 1080p will be seen as a luxury, reserved for premium on demand rentals and purchases.

[russweiss1]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Well, apart from the usual mistruths, picture and sound will NEVER be better than disc. Why? Many reasons but the latest one (in my opinion and prediction) is that these studios and streamers are under scrutiny and are going to have to toe the line and offer bit rates and resolution that minimise energy emissions. Sorry to disappoint, but expect 720p as the ‘across the board’ offering in a few years.
Industry bodies and climate suites will try to bring legislation where streaming services have to offer a baseline picture quality that uses the least bit rate possible to get a watchable picture. Maybe even really extreme and SD.

Forget 4K and certainly 8K. Heck, even 1080p will be seen as a luxury, reserved for premium on demand rentals and purchases.

That's interesting. As a planet we'll continue to burn coal and fossil fuels while chipping away at the rainforests but to combat climate change we'll minimize streaming quality. I wonder if there is a chart that shows how much that would actually help.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by russweiss1

That's interesting. As a planet we'll continue to burn coal and fossil fuels while chipping away at the rainforests but to combat climate change we'll minimize streaming quality. I wonder if there is a chart that shows how much that would actually help.

It wouldn’t, but these suites like to make it look like they are doing something. Take the stupid restrictions on 8K TVs in Europe that caused all the fuss of late. It has been sidestepped by having eco mode set out of the box but it’s stupidity.

I expect more stupidity to come in the next decade. Having said that, Netflix have made an art form of 720p at near flatline bit rates over the last couple of years.

They are the saviour after all!

[bhampton]

Good News Steedeel....


Anniversary UHD or The Wicker Man director's cut releasing Sept 4

https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=32545

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by bhampton

Good News Steedeel....

Anniversary UHD or The Wicker Man director's cut releasing Sept 4

Just so happens we watched that title on BD, via disc rental, just a few weeks back. Will say Willow's song is catchy:

[Show spoiler]

Willow's Song - Paul Giovanni - YouTube

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Well, apart from the usual mistruths, picture and sound will NEVER be better than disc. Why? Many reasons but the latest one (in my opinion and prediction) is that these studios and streamers are under scrutiny and are going to have to toe the line and offer bit rates and resolution that minimise energy emissions. Sorry to disappoint, but expect 720p as the ‘across the board’ offering in a few years.
Industry bodies and climate suites will try to bring legislation where streaming services have to offer a baseline picture quality that uses the least bit rate possible to get a watchable picture. Maybe even really extreme and SD.

Forget 4K and certainly 8K. Heck, even 1080p will be seen as a luxury, reserved for premium on demand rentals and purchases.

There is no need to “entertain” anything Alchav21 said. But, Kaleidescape is already at disc quality for AV quality and at times, better than disc quality.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

The best was 3.6 Mbps, the top 4 were cable, number 5 was fiber. These index speeds have changed little over the last seven years.

Like I said you guys keep hanging on to the past, Streaming has gotten better and will catch up and pass Disc sooner than you think. Here is Techthusiasm with some Spec Numbers that you guys Love so Much!

Streaming vs. Blu-ray Disc for 4K HDR & Dolby Atmos Quality | Is Streaming Really That Bad? - YouTube

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

There is no need to “entertain” anything Alchav21 said. But, Kaleidescape is already at disc quality for AV quality and at times, better than disc quality.

And they don't stream it.

It has to be fully downloaded. Some users report it's an 18 hour download. So ... be ready to watch tomorrow and stuff.

Can I even Download 4K from anyone else .... of course not.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Like I said you guys keep hanging on to the past, Streaming has gotten better and will catch up and pass Disc sooner than you think. Here is Techthusiasm with some Spec Numbers that you guys Love so Much!

Streaming vs. Blu-ray Disc for 4K HDR & Dolby Atmos Quality | Is Streaming Really That Bad? - YouTube

Don't hold you breadth.

or, actually ....

By the way, the video you posted says discs have 300% the quality for video of steaming and audio is 500% the quality of steaming. Not to mention only the discs have lossless. When it's lossless there's no need to compress it less. .... you know .... Duh !

You prefer to stream so if streaming gets better good for you but I personally think you should do yourself a favor and enjoy content in the highest quality available NOW because we live NOW and why wait in hopes that someday you could have something which most likely you will never have?

If your fantasy world in which steaming evolves to match the quality of currently available discs ever comes true the chances are high that you would not be able to download the content. In which case, I would still be buying the discs because I like to buy movies. I don't want someone to say the movie I remember from the 80's now needs to be revised by content sensitivity groups before I can watch it.

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by bhampton

And they don't stream it.

It has to be fully downloaded.

Can I even Download 4K from anyone else .... of course not.

Exactly. Not streaming.

Streaming will never be at disc quality. It has nothing to do technology, it’s the unwillingness of the streaming companies to stream at disc quality.

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by bhampton

Good News Steedeel....


Anniversary UHD or The Wicker Man director's cut releasing Sept 4

https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=32545

I will pick this one for sure, but the two titles that I have already preordered are the 4K releases for World War Z and Upgrade which both come out in July. Upgrade is one of the best movies which slipped by a lot of people as it doesn’t have any big names and the studio did little to promote it. Highest recommendation to check out.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Streaming has gotten better and will catch up and pass Disc sooner than you think.

To your credit you are fully correct.

If that EVER happened it would be by definition sooner than I think as I'm thinking that will NEVER happen.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Like I said you guys keep hanging on to the past, Streaming has gotten better and will catch up and pass Disc sooner than you think. Here is Techthusiasm with some Spec Numbers that you guys Love so Much!

Here is the problem with you, your not technical so the specs and jargon does not mean anything to you yet you try to pose as having technical know how.

As to Techthusiasm, don’t know his technical skills but some major errors from him, the video bit rates for streaming is CBR. Apple clearly shows the video and audio bit rates. No ambiguity here. They also show “network bandwidth” and “indicated bitrate, peak and average”. Some, including Techthusiasm, have misinterpreted the indicated bitrate peak as being a peak video rate, it is not. A sample from my ATV4K:

audio format desc - codec:qec3, channels:16, sample rate:48000Hz
display resolution:3840 x 2160, refresh rate:23.98Hz, video range:SDR
video approximate-display-size:3840 x 2076 natural size:3840 x 2076
network bandwidth:188.76Mbps
average bitrate video:13.69Mbps audio:770.34Kbps
indicated bitrate peak:30.74Mbps average:21.42Mbps
stalls total:0 current-variant:12

Once again, indicated bitrate peak:XX Mbps average:YY Mbps is just that, as in the data stream coming into the device. As noted earlier the Apple “average bitrate video” matches the number shown by Amazon Prime diagnostics.

You can not compare streaming CBR to disc VBR. Using the Oppo and Sony info I have saw some UHD disc hit > 100 Mbps and could be in the 30 Mbps a short time later. Very dependent upon the changes in the video.

You and others need to understand streaming is geared toward the masses so there is no need or incentive to offer the same quality of disc. Netflix has > 232 million subs worldwide, their average data rates across several countries < 4 Mbps. Do you hear a big cry from subs saying they want Blu-ray quality?

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

Streaming will never be at disc quality. It has nothing to do technology, it’s the unwillingness of the streaming companies to stream at disc quality.

If I were CEO of a streaming provider I sure would not spend large sums just so a small percentage of viewers would see a difference.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

If I were CEO of a streaming provider I sure would not spend large sums just so a small percentage of viewers would see a difference.

Particularly when feedback by the numbers says people are willing to accept the current level of quality.

[Wendell R. Breland]

A partial scan and partial list of MI-Fallout UHD ISO. This scan was only a few minutes of the ISO and the report was many pages long and most have been cut. As you can see at one time the average video 62,483 kbps (62.483 Mbps) and the peak was 118,744 kbps (118.744 Mbps).

[Show spoiler]

Disc Title:     Mission: Impossible Fallout
Disc Label:     MISSION IMPOSSIBLE FALLOUT
Disc Size:      97,090,363,496 bytes
Protection:     AACS2
Extras:         Ultra HD, BD-Java
BDInfo:         0.7.5.5

Notes:          

BDINFO HOME:
  Cinema Squid (old)
    http://www.cinemasquid.com/blu-ray/tools/bdinfo
  UniqProject GitHub (new)
   https://github.com/UniqProject/BDInfo

INCLUDES FORUMS REPORT FOR:
  AVS Forum Blu-ray Audio and Video Specifications Thread
    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1155731

WARNING: Report is incomplete because: Scan is still running.

********************
PLAYLIST: 00800.MPLS
********************


                                                                                                                Total   Video                                             
Title                                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------                        ---------------------
00800.MPLS                                                      HEVC    2:27:24 15,108,986,112  97,090,363,496  13.67   62.34   Dolby Atmos 7.1 5353Kbps (48kHz/24-bit)   DD AC3 5.1 640Kbps

DISC INFO:

Disc Title:     Mission: Impossible Fallout
Disc Label:     MISSION IMPOSSIBLE FALLOUT
Disc Size:      97,090,363,496 bytes
Protection:     AACS2
Extras:         Ultra HD, BD-Java
BDInfo:         0.7.5.5

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:                   00800.MPLS
Length:                 2:27:24.919 (h:m:s.ms)
Size:                   15,108,986,112 bytes
Total Bitrate:          13.67 Mbps

(*) Indicates included stream hidden by this playlist.

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
MPEG-H HEVC Video       62339 kbps          2160p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 @ Level 5.1 @ High / 10 bits / HDR10 / BT.2020
* MPEG-H HEVC Video     7068 kbps           1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 @ Level 5.1 @ High / 10 bits / Dolby Vision / BT.2020

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Dolby TrueHD/Atmos Audio        English         5353 kbps       7.1 / 48 kHz /  4713 kbps / 24-bit (AC3 Embedded: 5.1-EX / 48 kHz /   640 kbps / DN -27dB)
27dB


FILES:

Name            Time In         Length          Size            Total Bitrate   
----            -------         ------          ----            -------------   
00067.M2TS      0:00:00.000     2:27:24.919     15,108,986,112  86,817          

CHAPTERS:

Number          Time In         Length          Avg Video Rate  Max 1-Sec Rate  Max 1-Sec Time  Max 5-Sec Rate  Max 5-Sec Time  Max 10Sec Rate  Max 10Sec Time  Avg Frame Size  Max Frame Size  Max Frame Time  
------          -------         ------          --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  
1               0:00:00.000     0:10:37.011     62,483 kbps     118,744 kbps    00:00:02.293    85,075 kbps     00:00:13.763    80,734 kbps     00:01:55.865    0 bytes         1,140,491 bytes 00:00:03.128    
2               0:10:37.011     0:06:34.394     62,393 kbps     110,788 kbps    00:16:59.393    83,395 kbps     00:16:13.180    81,677 kbps     00:16:15.808    0 bytes         967,664 bytes   00:17:00.102    
3               0:17:11.405     0:09:45.835     38,206 kbps     89,933 kbps     00:21:58.859    83,465 kbps     00:17:44.730    81,927 kbps     00:21:36.753    0 bytes         809,267 bytes   00:17:44.813    


QUICK SUMMARY:

Disc Title: Mission: Impossible Fallout
Disc Label: MISSION IMPOSSIBLE FALLOUT
Disc Size: 97,090,363,496 bytes
Protection: AACS2
Playlist: 00107.MPLS
Size: 7,956,672 bytes
Length: 0:00:21.020
Total Bitrate: 3.03 Mbps
Video: MPEG-H HEVC Video / 4158 kbps / 2160p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 @ Level 5.1 @ High / 10 bits / HDR10 / BT.2020
* Video: MPEG-H HEVC Video / 55 kbps / 1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 @ Level 5.1 @ High / 10 bits / Dolby Vision / BT.2020

Hope no one gets confused by real facts.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

If I were CEO of a streaming provider I sure would not spend large sums just so a small percentage of viewers would see a difference.

Especially not when current streaming quality is apparently already Fantastic.

[Show spoiler]

Originally Posted by alchav21

...this Movie looked and sounded Fantastic on Vudu.

Originally Posted by alchav21

I watched this Movie last night from MY Collection in HD and it looked Fantastic...

Originally Posted by alchav21

...my Streaming Quality is Fantastic...

Originally Posted by alchav21

...my Sony UHD TV with Fiber Fed Ethernet has Fantastic Streaming Quality!

Originally Posted by alchav21

The Picture Quality...You guessed it is Fantastic!

Originally Posted by alchav21

Streaming is all Superbly Fantastic!

[sapiendut]

“Fantastic” my bum.

[cheez avenger]

My 4K discs of Martin and Picnic at Hanging Rock arrived today. They're the non-limited sets.