Blue Beetle (2023)

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

So no DC movies for a whole 3 years?

Originally Posted by Joey9775

I think it's the only way to get people back on the train.

Frankly I think 5 years minimum would be better (10 years would probably be more ideal to really drive home the separation between universes), but we all know that they won't wait that long. It's not that I don't want to see these movies, but this thing needs to rest for a while.

The DCEU really never found it's footing. It's been a mixed bag at best.

For those enjoying the movies that are still coming out (but not doing well at the box office), that's fine. I did see the Flash (mainly for Keaton's Batman), and overall I enjoyed it.

[Show spoiler]My only issue is the ending with George Clooney. I did laugh and I do appreciate the joke that they went for in-and-of itself. But they changed the original ending (which would have had Keaton's Bruce Wayne and Supergirl there) because it was going to be setting up future movies that now won't be made. But as a result, it just leaves the world that Keaton's Batman and that version of Supergirl inhabit to be doomed, and with them not surviving through multiverse/timeline altering shenanigans, it makes pretty much the entire part of the movie that took place in that universe feel utterly pointless.

But what we are seeing with both DC and Marvel (and other films like Indiana Jones) is a whole lot of mishandling of these franchises overall and audiences just having enough of it.

I'm going to go down an MCU rabbit hole here, but I will get back to DC (all of this is related to the overall problem). While there were some so-so movies here and there, overall the first 3 phases of the MCU (aka the infinity saga) were pretty rock solid, and we saw how it grew over the course of time, building to something amazing. The individual movies were mostly entertaining, and were building to a larger overall completed puzzle.


But what we are seeing now (and to some extent have been seeing all along with DC, albeit now it's at a much bigger level) is the opposite of that.

There have been some good movies that have been profitable. But with Marvel, overall with Phase 4 and onward, they have failed in really feeling like they are building up to something new. Many of the movies (not all, but many) haven't been as good individually as most that came in the first three phases. Then throw in the Disney+ shows, many of which feel like they should have been 2 hour movies, but have been stretched out to be spread across several episodes, which have been a mixed bag of quality as well, and it's just A TON of "content" that starts to feel like it's all a bunch of required homework and a chore to watch just to understand the eventual next Avengers movie.

While some have been entertaining, bringing the Disney+ shows into the mix was a huge mistake IMO. It spread the creative talent way too thin. It has created more complication (rather than helped) in bringing the bigger picture together, and again, just feels like a chore to keep up with.

It was already a bit much to ask when it started to average 3 movies a year, but that was an amount that was within reason for people to keep up with. Now it's just overwhelming. And for those who weren't already subscribed to Disney+ and are in a position of needing to catch up... most of them are probably going to look at all of that stuff and say, "F--- it!"



Sure, it is the multiverse saga and they are trying to "build another puzzle," so to speak. But it feels like it's a bunch of pieces from different puzzles all being thrown together in a pile with the bigger picture really NOT coming together. And except for stand out exceptions like Guardians 3 (which people are likely wanting to see since it's wrapping up the story of that specific group of characters and want to see where things go with the alternate version of Gamora from Endgame), we are seeing the opposite effect of what Phases 1-3 did.

The momentum and good will that was built during the Infinity Saga was such that Marvel could make a movie about characters that at the time were largely unknown to the public, like the Guardians of the Galaxy, and have it be a success. The Avengers was a huge hit, they were building to the second Avengers movie, and along the way Marvel/Disney basically said, "Here's a movie with a Raccoon and Tree that can talk!" and the audience responded, "Okay, we're in!!!"

Now the overall quality is dragging everything down. I honestly don't know how they are going to correct the ship at this point. Even if every Marvel project that they begin work on from this day forward is of top notch quality, of the same caliber as the better entries in Phases 1-3, they go back to 2 or 3 movies a year, and slow down or entirely stop the production of more connected TV shows, it's still going to all be connected to this overall huge pile of "barf" that has come out in the meantime. There is simply no escaping that now.

While there are some movies that I didn't care as much for in Phases 1-3 like Iron Man 2 and Thor The Dark World, for example, and I probably would have lost interest if the quality of the other films never surpassed those (but they did), I will still happily watch them again as part of a rewatch of the entire Infinity Saga because I still appreciate it as a whole, and there are worse movies in the world to rewatch.

But for me at least, Phase 4 and onward has been the opposite. The really good ones are the occasional exceptions IMO. Most of rest have been of that middling quality at best, and there's just so much of it that I've more or less checked out. If 3 years ago you had told me I would be writing what I just said and actually mean it, I would have called you crazy. But here we are.



Getting back to DC, they arguably have it somewhat worse at the moment since their movies are flat out tanking so badly. That universe never really gained the momentum that the MCU did. And they basically announced a reboot of everything well in advance, with none of these current movies leading to a satisfying conclusion to this universe, and people have checked out.

There's been talk of Blue Beetle being the "beginning" of the new universe, and even if that has retroactively become the intent, they are just creating confusion by trying to have the new universe start immediately while we are still in the midst of movies from the dead-end universe coming out, and with a character that most of the public has never heard of.

It will probably a decent, fine, relatively entertaining movie. But it looks like another cookie-cutter superhero origin story. Sure, the specific details with be different, but in broad terms, it looks to be following the same common tropes that we've seen MANY times already.

And from what has been said, it sounds like some elements from the existing universe may carry over. Again, that will just cause confusion.

What they need to do is have the new continuity be 100% completely separate from the existing one. And they need a decent amount of time in between them to really drive that home.

They can't be "wishy-washy" about this. They can't start a new universe while the other is still winding down (or immediately after it ends), and pick and choose what elements that were originally part of the old universe will now carry over to the new one. Otherwise the current downward spiral is going to drag the new universe down with it. The audiences that have already checked out will either not know the difference, or just not care if they do know it. The momentum is going in the WRONG direction. They need to let that particular momentum die down, letting things get to a resting point, so they can start from an neutral playing field and build positive momentum.

But I will NOT be holding my breath on them actually doing that.