The Muppets Take Manhattan 4K UHD (1984)

[BNex99]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

First time I've heard about that. What do you mean?

I'd been thinking about doing a comparison video, but someone beat me to it.

The Great Muppet Caper - Theatrical Version vs. 1993 Edit Comparison - YouTube

I especially miss Miss Piggy's yell when she jumps off the motorcycle.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by BNex99

I'd been thinking about doing a comparison video, but someone beat me to it.

The Great Muppet Caper - Theatrical Version vs. 1993 Edit Comparison - YouTube

Most of those edits seem to be improvements, IMO.

[mulscul]

ok, if Sony is releasing a muppet movie and So I married an Axe Murderer in 4k, Tootsie can't be far behind can it? Im surprised at how many Sony movies have been released on 4k before one of their biggest hits of the 80s along with Ghostbusters gets one.

[Trekkie313]

Originally Posted by mulscul

ok, if Sony is releasing a muppet movie and So I married an Axe Murderer in 4k, Tootsie can't be far behind can it? Im surprised at how many Sony movies have been released on 4k before one of their biggest hits of the 80s along with Ghostbusters gets one.

Ghostbusters has been on UHD since 2016.

[mulscul]

Originally Posted by Trekkie313

Ghostbusters has been on UHD since 2016.

i know ghostbusters has been released, I was stating that Tootsie was almost as big a hit for Sony as that film was for them in the 80s

[BNex99]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

Most of those edits seem to be improvements, IMO.

I disagree, but it's a fair opinion.

The larger issue, though, is that I don't think they were "edits" so much as the wrong elements used.

I don't know if it was an "earlier" mix or simply pre-mix stems that didn't include all the final decisions made, but most of the differences don't seem intentional to me.

[SpaceBlackKnight]

Originally Posted by BNex99

I'd been thinking about doing a comparison video, but someone beat me to it.

The Great Muppet Caper - Theatrical Version vs. 1993 Edit Comparison - YouTube

I especially miss Miss Piggy's yell when she jumps off the motorcycle.

Sounds like there were two mixes made, an early one for the UK theatrical release (which most video versions use) and a revised one for the US release by Universal (heard on some old US TV airings and post-1995 video releases). The 5.1 on DVD/BD sounds like the same mix but a 4.0 in a 5.1 container.

[BNex99]

Originally Posted by SpaceBlackKnight

Sounds like there were two mixes made, an early one for the UK theatrical release (which most video versions use) and a revised one for the US release by Universal (heard on some old US TV airings and post-1995 video releases). The 5.1 on DVD/BD sounds like the same mix but a 4.0 in a 5.1 container.

Except that "most video versions" at this point are post-1993 and have the post-1993 version. That includes the 1993 Disney VHS/laserdisc, the Sony DVD, the Disney DVD, the Disney Blu-ray, and streaming/digital releases. The print I saw a few years ago had the Universal logo and the older mix as heard on the initial VHS and laserdisc releases. Also, the movie was released in the US about a month before it came out in the UK.

But while we're speculating, maybe Miss Piggy's "Hi-yaaah!" was intentionally removed to make her seem less aggressive (beating George Lucas to the punch with his Greedo revisionism), and the music editing was retroactively made rougher to give it that gritty, crime-movie feel.

[SpaceBlackKnight]

Originally Posted by BNex99

Except that "most video versions" at this point are post-1993 and have the post-1993 version. That includes the 1993 Disney VHS/laserdisc, the Sony DVD, the Disney DVD, the Disney Blu-ray, and streaming/digital releases. The print I saw a few years ago had the Universal logo and the older mix as heard on the initial VHS and laserdisc releases. Also, the movie was released in the US about a month before it came out in the UK.

But while we're speculating, maybe Miss Piggy's "Hi-yaaah!" was intentionally removed to make her seem less aggressive (beating George Lucas to the punch with his Greedo revisionism), and the music editing was retroactively made rougher to give it that gritty, crime-movie feel.

I meant video versions before 1993 or so (like the CBS Fox Video and some of the Jim Henson Video releases). Some VHS pressings post-1993 were of older tapes, hence why I say post-1995 when they all started using newer masters.

The reason why I mention UK and US versions having different mixes is because the Pre-cert UK VHS by Pickwick Video (and a later issue from ITC Video) use not only a different master from the American tapes of the time, but has mostly the same audio mix as the current versions. (only with Miss Piggy's "Hi-yaaah!" intact and a different SFX of the motorcycle landing not heard in any other version).

[BNex99]

Originally Posted by SpaceBlackKnight

The reason why I mention UK and US versions having different mixes is because the Pre-cert UK VHS by Pickwick Video (and a later issue from ITC Video) use not only a different master from the American tapes of the time, but has mostly the same audio mix as the current versions. (only with Miss Piggy's "Hi-yaaah!" intact and a different SFX of the motorcycle landing not heard in any other version).

So then there are three mixes out there? I do wonder what happened to Piggy's yell.

I'm still a little curious where you're getting all this information. Do you happen to have copies of those early UK releases?

[SpaceBlackKnight]

Originally Posted by BNex99

So then there are three mixes out there? I do wonder what happened to Piggy's yell.

I'm still a little curious where you're getting all this information. Do you happen to have copies of those early UK releases?

Probably wasn't on the audio element JHP/Disney had since ITC held most of them. Thing is they were at a film storage facility in London who were notorious for discarding things that the owners didn't pay for or just abandoned there. Some ITC owned elements (which included the OCNs to the Stepfather sequels among others) got lost or discarded at that UK facility they were held in during the late 90s and 2000s.

There was a YT video explaining differences not only between the main two mixes, but also the 1982 Pickwick Video UK VHS using a different master than the rest. It's gone now but I'm sure another rip of that UK VHS will surface somewhere. Also worth noting that the initial UK VHS was mono, meaning it was a unique mono mix of the time or a downfold of the UK theatrical mix (the UK had a 1 day only preview engagement about 2 months before the US premiere and the wide UK release afterwards).

[BNex99]

Originally Posted by SpaceBlackKnight

There was a YT video explaining differences not only between the main two mixes, but also the 1982 Pickwick Video UK VHS using a different master than the rest. It's gone now but I'm sure another rip of that UK VHS will surface somewhere. Also worth noting that the initial UK VHS was mono, meaning it was a unique mono mix of the time or a downfold of the UK theatrical mix (the UK had a 1 day only preview engagement about 2 months before the US premiere and the wide UK release afterwards).

If that's the case, it would certainly explain a few things. Total speculation here, but I feel like what was heard on the old VHS (and in the print I saw) probably represents the final mixing decisions, as it does seem more finessed, so I still wish Disney would track that printmaster down.

Analog sound mixing, man. (Not that digital mixing is free of issues, but in theory, it's a little easier to keep track of everything.)

To get the thread back on topic, I always thought it was weird that MANHATTAN apparently got a mono-only theatrical mix after the first two films used Dolby Stereo.

[SMD88]

Originally Posted by BNex99

I'd been thinking about doing a comparison video, but someone beat me to it.

The Great Muppet Caper - Theatrical Version vs. 1993 Edit Comparison - YouTube

I especially miss Miss Piggy's yell when she jumps off the motorcycle.

WHAAAAAAAT?!?!!! That is THE iconic scene from that movie! What the hell?

[BNex99]

Originally Posted by SMD88

WHAAAAAAAT?!?!!! That is THE iconic scene from that movie! What the hell?

Indeed, but it's been gone from home releases of the movie for 30 years now.

That's the most noticeable difference, of course. I'd prefer they reverted to the full theatrical mix, but if they could just restore Miss Piggy's yell, I could probably live with the other changes (errors?).