Lawrence of Arabia 4K UHD (1962)

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by matbezlima

I just meant on your scale of discs with less than perfect encoding.

It’s not StudioCanal or Paramount bad, but it’s visibly crunchier than it should be.

[matbezlima]

Originally Posted by Ben_UK

Ive only seen the caps on capsaholic but the UHD looks like the same scan used for the older blu ray. The grain kinda has this old scan look, it appears quite harsh, almost like some sharpening has been applied to it.

It is the 2012 4K restoration, but touched-up to mitigate the restoration artefacts and flaws of the old restoration that become more noticeable in HDR, even when the grade is fairly conservative.

The 2012 restoration was so hard and expensive that Sony didn't think doing a new one for the UHD was worth it.

[NotASpeckOfCereal]

I managed to get a pre-order of the limited edition a week or so ago, but today I canceled it (on Amazon, so there may be one available for quick readers).

The film just doesn't mean $40US+ to me. I'll wait for a standard release and if it doesn't happen, I'll live.

[SoundCreateUnit]

Best Buy's product page changed from saying "this item is no longer available in new condition" in red text with a tiny image of the steelbook to now showing a price of $29.99, options to select the regular Blu-ray and DVD on the same page, a large image of the steelbook, with it saying "sold out" in red text underneath.

Assuming copies didn't already go live, it seems like they are prepping on the backend to have it go live soon. Might be worth keeping an eye on. Unlike the other major retailers (Target, Walmart) Best Buy will likely get a couple copies in at physical stores on or around September 26th as well, so people that miss out preordering it from them online should still have a shot in-store.

Here's the product page for it: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lawrenc...?skuId=6503828

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by SoundCreateUnit

Best Buy's product page changed from saying "this item is no longer available in new condition" in red text with a tiny image of the steelbook to now showing a price of $29.99, options to select the regular Blu-ray and DVD on the same page, a large image of the steelbook, with it saying "sold out" in red text underneath.

Assuming copies didn't already go live, it seems like they are prepping on the backend to have it go live soon. Might be worth keeping an eye on. Unlike the other major retailers (Target, Walmart) Best Buy will likely get a couple copies in at physical stores on or around September 26th as well, so people that miss out preordering it from them online should still have a shot in-store.

Here's the product page for it: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lawrenc...?skuId=6503828

That's good news. I've been checking that page nearly every day.

[matbezlima]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Still not as grainy as the UHD is, lol

Looking at the old blu-ray, it is in some shots, especially in the skies, already significantly grainier than what we would expect from a 70mm source. The UHD, being based on the same 4K master used by the blu-ray, shows this too, and makes it more obvious due to the resolution bump and HDR.

The old blu-ray, from 2012, is fantastic, it had a level of detail that many UHDs can only dream of reaching. But in hindsight, there were signs there already of what you talked about.

Why? Maybe because 70mm scanning technology wasn't as good back then as it is now. Also because HDR wasn't really a thing, so they couldn't have accounted for it in the restoration, hence why they did additional restoration work for the UHD (and they didn't do a new master altogether because of how insanely hard and expensive the original master already was to make, so they understandably didn't want to throw away that absurd level of hard work and money). And last, but probably the biggest factor of all by far: the Lawrence Of Arabia negative is really horribly damaged, to the point of absurdity. So much so that the current 4K master is already a miracle for all of us to be thankful for.

So, we can wait till a better master comes eventually, but also be happy at how the current master still looks tremendous overall, especially considering the state of the source.

My point is: let's try to always balance being very happy with what we have, and also really want something even better for the future. I don't think there is any contradiction in having these two thoughts and feelings at the same time. I'm not criticizing you or anyone especifically, I'm just making a broad statement.

[Geoff D]

I remember you saying that to begin with. But I’ll always be disappointed with how this turned out on UHD. If it was from any other studio then it’d be the pinnacle for them as it is, right, but Sony’s standards are just that bit higher in every respect and so it falls short of the sort of greatness I was expecting.

Still, if they did a sneaky re-issue that used the same source master but undid the low pass filter and gave it a much betterer encode by junking all those extra audio tracks then that’d give me less reasons to complain. It really would be as best a representation of this flawed, damaged source as possible, and I could live with that. That’s the thing with me and Lawrence’s UHD: there’s one too many things compounding the existing issues which is why it’s so niggly and annoying.

[matbezlima]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I remember you saying that to begin with. But I’ll always be disappointed with how this turned out on UHD. If it was from any other studio then it’d be the pinnacle for them as it is, right, but Sony’s standards are just that bit higher in every respect and so it falls short of the sort of greatness I was expecting.

Still, if they did a sneaky re-issue that used the same source master but undid the low pass filter and gave it a much betterer encode by junking all those extra audio tracks then that’d give me less reasons to complain. It really would be as best a representation of this flawed, damaged source as possible, and I could live with that. That’s the thing with me and Lawrence’s UHD: there’s one too many things compounding the existing issues which is why it’s so niggly and annoying.

I get what you say. For a film as visually spectacular as this, and even more so considering Sony's high standards for UHD, any flaws can stick out more and feel more bothersome than they would be in almost any other film's release. If there's a film that deserves true perfection in its UHD release, not just competency (I'm not saying that the UHD is merely competent, it is great, especially with HDR and WCG), it is Lawrence Of Arabia. Even with the current master, the UHD still looks about maybe 95% as good as what the current master can potentially deliver, due to the filtering (though the image is still plenty detailed, and the original blu-ray already was incredibly detailed).

The filtering that Sony did was clearly done to mitigate flaws that were more visible in 4K and HDR, as part of the additional restoration work done to the 4K master in 2020, and it's really very, very far from outrageous in the grand scheme of things, it was done as tastefully as possible. But the fact it was done to begin with in a film like Lawrence Of Arabia and in a Sony release makes it stick far more than actual mild DNR in other releases. Sony, and especially Lawrence Of Arabia, are held to a higher standard than almost any other UHD.

About compression issues, they couldn't be further from a disaster, as only a minority of people even in this thread really notice them and talk about them (almost everyone talks about the filteringh instead), the issues are very mild at worst, but the fact that the compression isn't perfect can be far more frustrating here than in almost any other UHD, because it's Sony and Lawrence Of Arabia, they are held to a higher standard, and this release deserves perfection like almost nothing else.

I believe we'll see still in this decade a reissue eventually with new encoding and maybe ending the filtering too. With better luck, a whole new master altogether this decade. When will this happen? I have no idea, and I wouldn't be too surprised if it only happens next decade, especially regarding a new master.

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I remember you saying that to begin with. But I’ll always be disappointed with how this turned out on UHD. If it was from any other studio then it’d be the pinnacle for them as it is, right, but Sony’s standards are just that bit higher in every respect and so it falls short of the sort of greatness I was expecting.

Still, if they did a sneaky re-issue that used the same source master but undid the low pass filter and gave it a much betterer encode by junking all those extra audio tracks then that’d give me less reasons to complain. It really would be as best a representation of this flawed, damaged source as possible, and I could live with that. That’s the thing with me and Lawrence’s UHD: there’s one too many things compounding the existing issues which is why it’s so niggly and annoying.

Well there's an SDR 4K download (105 GB, 64.4 mbps AVC) floating around that hides the shortcomings of the transfer better if you want....

At least we get 2 choices

[Irongod2112]

Back up on Amazon guys!! $40.86

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

Well there's an SDR 4K download (105 GB, 64.4 mbps AVC) floating around that hides the shortcomings of the transfer better if you want....

At least we get 2 choices

I know, I’ve got it

[Galactus123]

Amazon uk has it too.

[mattFoley]

Gah...already gone from Amazon.

Is there a way to get a stock alert? I've seen it on larger items...

[sheri1983]

Just received my copy from DeepDiscount today, can't believe I got it for less than $29. Now time to cancel that target order.

[JayFank]

Received mine from importcds today. Ordered last week "backordered," so went ahead and canceled Target order. Still have one ordered through deep discount, as well.

[Hedrox]

Originally Posted by Galactus123

Amazon uk has it too.

Do you have a link? because as far as I know the steelbook was exclusive to zavvi in the UK when it originally came out.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Hedrox

Do you have a link? because as far as I know the steelbook was exclusive to zavvi in the UK when it originally came out.

It was shipped and sold by Amazon US, but like Amazon US it's now OOS/Unavailable again. It was around 39.99 GBP I believe, when I saw it available.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lawrence-Ar...d%2C421&sr=1-2

[matbezlima]

While mastered in DCI-P3 color primaries if I'm not mistaken, the graphs below, made by user Pyoko, show that Lawrence Of Arabia actually goes beyond DCI-P3. While the reds of costumes and objects doesn't generally go beyond DCI-P3 in saturation, this sun shot does go to the limits of Rec. 2020.

lawrence-17-HDR-gamutmap.jpg

And this graph shows blue colors beyond DCI-P3.

lawrence-05-HDR-gamutmap.jpg

[WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW]

Is he using Resolve to make those plots?
I'm just asking because Resolve seems to have all sorts of curious behavior and I find it is easy to make even 100% clipped to REC709 show color gamut going beyond P3.
(not that some UHD don't extend past P3, a few do and all are encoded in the larger REC2020)

[mjcavinder]

Goes on sale on Amazon....sold out? within minutes...