What Hi-Fi? ask "Why doesn't anyone make 4K Blu-ray players anymore?"

[scififan73]

Originally Posted by RocShemp

The VHS resurgence I'm aware of. Same for new audio cassettes. But I always chalked that up to Hipsters/Millennials (or whatever they're called these days) simply being weird for the sake of being weird.





I see your point, but it still seems weird to waste money on a lesser alternative when there are two better options (BD is quite a leap from DVD). It kinda reminds me of my cousin who would get mad when DVD purchases included a BD of the movie and would throw them away. She also got mad when I suggested she should have kept the BDs to at least future proof her collection. She then angrily told me not everyone could afford a new BD player or HDTV. To which I said she should haven then sold the BDs to reduce the cost of her DVD purchases. She was none too happy with my suggestion.

I can relate to your cousin, i experienced much the same thing when i was working at Future Shop and a customer informed me with an angry, offended battle cry there was " no way!" she would be replacing her vhs tapes.
This if course was at the onset of the dvd revolution, circa 1999 or 2000.

It's weird. Yes, i can understand not wanting to upgrade " everything", but as a collector, when a clearly superior technology emerges you wouldn't think there'd be such resistance.
It's almost like a religious thing, and someone had disproved the existence of their god or something.
Such a stubborn resistance is not rational.

[apollo828]

Originally Posted by scififan73

It's weird. Yes, i can understand not wanting to upgrade " everything", but as a collector, when a clearly superior technology emerges you wouldn't think there'd be such resistance.
It's almost like a religious thing, and someone had disproved the existence of their god or something.
Such a stubborn resistance is not rational.

Huh? If customers throw a fit, that's one thing, but I swear some people here seem to be completely incapable of understanding that not everybody wants a Maserati. Some are fine with a used Ford. The cultural zeitgeist centers around streaming and the odd theatrical release. Optical players simply aren't that high a priority for a lot of people. Amazon Video removed some movie? Who cares. They added a bunch more, and they're actively shoved in your face via algorithms. That's plenty for many people. Maybe not for people here, which is fine, but pretending that Grandma's irrational because she hasn't bought a new optical player in 25 years and hasn't watched anything on it in the last 5-10 years is seriously elitist. (Growing up, my grandparents had an 8-track player. They were content with the tapes they had. Believe me, it wasn't because they were savoring every last detail of the audio on some fancy system.)

[scififan73]

Originally Posted by apollo828

Huh? If customers throw a fit, that's one thing, but I swear some people here seem to be completely incapable of understanding that not everybody wants a Maserati. Some are fine with a used Ford. The cultural zeitgeist centers around streaming and the odd theatrical release. Optical players simply aren't that high a priority for a lot of people. Amazon Video removed some movie? Who cares. They added a bunch more, and they're actively shoved in your face via algorithms. That's plenty for many people. Maybe not for people here, which is fine, but pretending that Grandma's irrational because she hasn't bought a new optical player in 25 years and hasn't watched anything on it in the last 5-10 years is seriously elitist. (Growing up, my grandparents had an 8-track player. They were content with the tapes they had. Believe me, it wasn't because they were savoring every last detail of the audio on some fancy system.)

As regarding the other member's cousin: to stubbornly even consider the possibility of one day maybe upgrading and just tossing blu rays in the trash (no interest in possibly selling or gifting on either) does strike me as completely irrational, not elitist.

[LexInHD]

Knowing what I now know about UHD-BD and having seen what I have seen, in regards to where it has gone in terms of the availability of players, I find myself equally wondering if I should have invested earlier (solely) in acquiring players back in the earlier days of the format or not bothered investing in the format at all. I have two used basic and functional players, so I can continue investing in UHD-BD disc purchases and possibly pick up some more used players at thrift stores or eBay or whatever, but it would be far easier and less expensive to simply stop investing entirely and continue on with BD purchases, which inevitably fall to "a few bucks" or "sweet deal" pricing and enjoy those with the large number of back-up BD players and HDTVs that I have.

[Messana]

Another question is "Why aren't people buy 4k players anymore?"

Asking price for Panasonic DP-UB9000 is over 1K USD.

I wonder how much Dolby Vision is helping driving up these prices.

[LexInHD]

Originally Posted by Messana

Another question is "Why aren't people buy 4k players anymore?"

Asking price for Panasonic DP-UB9000 is over 1K USD.

I wonder how much Dolby Vision is helping driving up these prices.

2017-2018 was when the format was fully accessible and entry-level players were available. 2019 is when Samsung left the disc player market and the sub-$200 entry-level players from Magnavox and Philips also suddenly disappeared from retail shelves, along with Pioneer's higher-end offerings. At this point, people who want to enjoy the format are paying through the nose for new players, because there's really no other choice, except to buy the older used players on the Internet or abandon it entirely and stick with Blu-Ray.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by Messana

Another question is "Why aren't people buy 4k players anymore?"

Asking price for Panasonic DP-UB9000 is over 1K USD.

I wonder how much Dolby Vision is helping driving up these prices.

The reason I don't buy players is because I already have one and a backup.

I own the UB9000 and the PS5. Anyone who wants a player should buy one or two.

[Naiera]

Originally Posted by Messana

Another question is "Why aren't people buy 4k players anymore?"

Asking price for Panasonic DP-UB9000 is over 1K USD.

I wonder how much Dolby Vision is helping driving up these prices.

The UB820 is nowhere near 1K.

Originally Posted by LexInHD

At this point, people who want to enjoy the format are paying through the nose for new players, because there's really no other choice, except to buy the older used players on the Internet or abandon it entirely and stick with Blu-Ray.

Nonsense.

Let me know when the lowest end Sonys and Panasonics are no longer available.

[AgentOrange]

Originally Posted by Naiera

The UB820 is nowhere near 1K.



Nonsense.

Let me know when the lowest end Sonys and Panasonics are no longer available.

Yeah, I don't think the issue is accessibility. The preferred Sony is currently on sale for $229, and the preferred Panasonic $349. I believe the value players are even cheaper at around $150 or whatever. The issue is they haven't been updated in years despite the fact there are definite kinks to work out. So many people complain of the Sony 700 freezing and shutting down. So many reported issues with 100GB discs on all players. Yet, since there's basically no competition, Sony and Panasonic have little incentive to do anything to iron these issues out.

There is also effectively zero competition on the high end. So whatever is out there, the ball is not moving forward. It would be nice to at least see one more hardware revision in all segments of the market, even if it's just ironing out the kinks of the same old Sony and Panasonics. But it's just as likely another player drops out before that happens.

[Naiera]

The format hasn’t changed for years, so there’s no reason to develop new players. It’s already a tiny market by consumer electronics standards.

[WelshCollector]

I've got a 4K/HDR TV, and standard Blu Rays look fine to me and I've yet to see a film that's improved significantly enough from 4K/HDR to want to start collecting those.

In fact I can honestly say that I don't like whatever HDR does to a film image. Maybe my TV isn't up to a high enough standard, or maybe my settings are off, but HDR (streaming) usually makes the image too dark. I've only even seen really amazing 4K/HDR on nature documentaries where there's lots of natural light, I don't like it on films.

VHS to DVD was a huge leap, DVD to Blu Ray was a jump. Blu Ray to 4K feels more like a tweak, and given the price of the players, I don't want to make it at the moment. If I could see a big enough difference in quality, I would.

It's not a competition and I'm not dissing anyone who loves 4K. I'm just wondering if my experience is common and explains why there isn't more energy in the 4K player market. Factor in that not everyone has upgraded their set to 4K, and I can see why the physical market is stalling on 4K discs and players.

[Naiera]

Originally Posted by WelshCollector

Maybe my TV isn't up to a high enough standard ...

Unless it's an OLED then this is likely the explanation.

[Cortiz]

Originally Posted by Naiera

Unless it's an OLED then this is likely the explanation.

Even BD looks phenomenal on OLED. I know it does on my Sony 95K so he has a point. There's a definitely an upgrade from 1080 to 4K just not not as noticeable as the Jump from VHS to DVD or DVD to BD. Many people will not think the upgrade justify the investment and I don't blame them.

[gothicform]

Originally Posted by Naiera

The format hasn’t changed for years, so there’s no reason to develop new players. It’s already a tiny market by consumer electronics standards.

There's lots of other high end AV equipment which is also a tiny market by consumer standards, but there's a greater range of high end pieces of equipment. It's just a bit odd really. I find it particularly surprising as the format lends itself well for projectors but there's a lack of good physical video transport for them. Sony sells MP3 players for £3,500 and is happy to sell projectors for 20k but won't do a high end 4k player for a tenth of the price? Do they really expect people to watch Netflix on them??!?!?!

Here's their "signature series" for audio products if you want to scratch your head at the commercial decisions being made.

https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/a...gnature-series

[Naiera]

Originally Posted by gothicform

There's lots of other high end AV equipment which is also a tiny market by consumer standards, but there's a greater range of high end pieces of equipment.

High-end hi-fi is not the same market and the prices are different. There's plenty of higher end UHD players available.

[gothicform]

1) I did not say it was the same market. I said it was also a tiny market.
2) Of course prices are different. The question is why there isn't high end home cinema equipment that rivals high end hifi equipment. People will pay through the nose for it. I'm one of them.

[Naiera]

And I told you it does exist.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by WelshCollector

I've got a 4K/HDR TV, and standard Blu Rays look fine to me and I've yet to see a film that's improved significantly enough from 4K/HDR to want to start collecting those.

In fact I can honestly say that I don't like whatever HDR does to a film image. Maybe my TV isn't up to a high enough standard, or maybe my settings are off, but HDR (streaming) usually makes the image too dark. I've only even seen really amazing 4K/HDR on nature documentaries where there's lots of natural light, I don't like it on films.

VHS to DVD was a huge leap, DVD to Blu Ray was a jump. Blu Ray to 4K feels more like a tweak, and given the price of the players, I don't want to make it at the moment. If I could see a big enough difference in quality, I would.

It's not a competition and I'm not dissing anyone who loves 4K. I'm just wondering if my experience is common and explains why there isn't more energy in the 4K player market. Factor in that not everyone has upgraded their set to 4K, and I can see why the physical market is stalling on 4K discs and players.

Close your curtains

[Rokh]

I don't get why such it's a taboo for manufacturers to make high end 4K UHD players. There has always been high end niche CD players made during a long time period when the CD market was always shrinking rapidly and just has had an uptick recently. I'm guessing the cost to develop a high end 4k Blu-ray player dwarfs that of a high end CD player? It almost seems like a matter of principle for an audio company to have a high end CD player available for purchase at all times.

On Youtube was watching a video from 2020 where an interviewer passed on asked on a question from the audience and asked Denon engineers about if they had any plans about making a 4k player and the Denon guys laughed then kind of groaned about it , like it was a ludicrous and painful thing to think about, completely dismissed the question and didn't answer it. Just something that I thought was a bit weird.

[Necril]

Considering the potential demand, the situation of high end 4K players to me actually looks pretty decent. Both Panasonic and Sony have their own ~1000$ players, and those looking to spend even more have Magnetar and Reavon models to consider. If anything, it's the selection of mid range players that's lacking. That is, unless your high end starts at 5000$ or 10000$, in which case yes, there is a lack of options in 4K players.

But as noted many times before, the market for 4K players in general must be fairly challenging, which might explain the Denon representatives reactions. But then the company is best known in the audio department, so I'm not surprised that under the climate at the time of publishing that video the company was not looking to expand on video market.