Is Warner changing to DTS-HD Master Audio too?

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by Rik1138

And this is why I keep stating, over and over and over, that you have to ADJUST YOUR SOUND SYSTEM SEPARATELY FOR DOLBY AND DTS.

Let's be careful with terminology here. Your statement should read, "To get truly lossless audio, you need to change the volume for Dolby encodes."

Originally Posted by Rik1138

This is done to compensate for this 4db difference, effectively eliminating the dialnorm affect. Without making these adjustments then, of course, one is going to sound different than the other.

Until I read about this problem in this forum, I wasn't aware of it. My receivers, Pioneer Elite units, would flash up a warning that Dolby encodes were being boosted - I couldn't figure out what was going on. Finally I got it.

How many people who prefer DTS are aware of this? Does it take secret insider knowledge to play back a commercial disc? The whole thing fails the logic test.

Dolby does this to match a broadcast standard that they openly admit is unsuccessful. They should drop it, but won't.

And for folks like me, who don't have all their gear sitting out in the open - one of my rigs is inside a cabinet, out of sight - fiddling with volume settings when I want to hear it at reference level doesn't make any sense at all.

Originally Posted by Rik1138

If your system only has one volume that you can adjust, then you will never be equally happy with both formats. Unfortunately, this is probably the case with most consumer level A/V equipment.

Unfortunate for Dolby. This is why most consumer level equipment users prefer DTS.

Consider my situation - two full setups, including Kuro 60" and Sony 52" XBR TV's, Pioneer Elite receivers, DefTech Mythos, Sonus Faber Domus, and Vienna Acoustics speakers, and JL Audio Fathom and Klipsch subwoofers, controlled by Harmony 1100 remotes. All off-the-shelf gear. Real, consumer level stuff.

I prefer non-hassle DTS encodes.

Originally Posted by Rik1138

At the very least, using a calibration disc of some kind, find out what the difference in volume is to make them sound similar. You need the exact same audio encoded in both formats to adjust your system properly.

I have that capability with the Elites - I can set up custom sound modes, including crossover settings, volume, the whole thing, without a problem.

Why should I need to do that, if the source is lossless? Why did I pay for very good playback gear, decoding lossless audio, if I have to compensate for modes that are not truly "zero-variance" decodes from the original PCM track?

It's not a law of nature; it's a choice, by whoever encodes the original track. If they make choices like that, I prefer another product. I didn't pay serious money for my playback gear, and their disc, to spend hours fiddling around compensating for their choices.

Originally Posted by Rik1138

The other problem might be if you are letting your Blu-Ray player decode the streams into PCM and outputting that. Then your receiver has no idea if it's a DTS or THD stream in the first place. In that case, you will have to adjust the volume for each type of stream.

This is my point: Why is a clean PCM encode a "problem"? Why is Dolby's choice of format taken as something that is immutable, unchangeable, and most important, not the preference of the consumer, by roughly a 9:1 ratio?

[QUOTE=Rik1138;2167190]DTS-HD MA and THD _can_ sound exactly the same if you can set up your equipment properly...

They can also sound exactly the same if unneeded features - Dialnorm, and DRC - are not invoked. Why bring the mountain to Mohamet? I still fail to see why these modes are invoked, or why these modes are supported by Dolby proponents. They need to simply make a super-clean encode, and leave all the voodoo modes in the lossy core or something.

Originally Posted by Rik1138

But, I do agree that Dolby is only hurting themselves... While it is possible to make them sound the same, it's obvious from this thread that many people haven't (or can't) make the adjustments necessary. Thus, the one format that 'just works' is, naturally, the preferred one (that being DTS).

I had the pleasure of once again playing my Police: Certifiable disc last week; it's a Dolby THD encode, of amazing quality and clarity. I fiddled with the volume until I was satisfied (I have no interest in calibrating for each disc, or trying to make new sound modes for PCM encodes; I'm paying cash for studio engineers to deal with that) and it reminded me of what you can get from Dolby. But it was a pain in the ass, which does not amuse me.

Originally Posted by Rik1138

With DTS being a mandatory format now in Blu-Ray players, maybe it is time to just stop using the -4db/dialnorm setting on Dolby/THD... It's not being done in DTS obviously, and people have a natural tendency to like that sound better... And they already have to deal with the different volume levels from film to film. Time for some tests maybe...

There is this unholy resistance to pressuring Dolby to do this from some Dolby adherents, and I'm still at a loss to understand it. This is Blu, not some cable/satellite broadcast.

I hope attitudes change.