Titanic 4K UHD (1997)

[Grey2Grey]

Originally Posted by PNguyen

is it DNR free?

Ummm.... No.

[DEN7ER]

Probably a silly question, but does anyone else notice a bit of that sped up frame-rate/motion-flo/120hz effect on this disc? im super sensitive to it and hate it with a passion. i couldn't find any corrective setting on my projector (Epson 5040) and it's never been a problem on any other 4k disc... even popped in the old Titanic BD and it wasn't there. hmmm

[Mierzwiak]

Originally Posted by Macatouille

I just know it'd annoy me.

You need a thicker skin, I just had a blast watching T2 on UHD

[LPMA]

Originally Posted by maverick22

grain

Triggering.

[videopat]

Watching this now and the level of DNR is kind of alarming. Cameron thought HFR looked good on AVATAR, so his mastering instincts are kind of questionable these days. TITANIC isn’t my favorite JC film, but now I’m worried about the upcoming releases of TRUE LIES and ABYSS

[stvn1974]

I remember back when I was in the booth doing the color timing for Titanic for its theatrical release. I sent Cameron out to get me a sandwich and when he came back I showed him my work and he liked it. I can't believe how bad the new 4k UHD looks now.

[RYJAPE21]

Originally Posted by jack_of_america

Viewed this last night, and thought it was an incredible experience in every way. My new favorite 4K.

I agree. I actually found this transfer stunning.

[blakninja]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

I remember back when I was in the booth doing the color timing for Titanic for its theatrical release. I sent Cameron out to get me a sandwich and when he came back I showed him my work and he liked it. I can't believe how bad the new 4k UHD looks now.

You did color timing for Titanic!!??? What is the process like? Who gets the last say?

[Wes_k089]

Originally Posted by Wes_k089

Just watched it. I think it looks/sounds great
Perfect? No

My expectations were tempered going into it, because from watching the prior special features from the 2012 release, I knew there was a lot of digital tweaking and compositing done on the film (and early CG) and I knew it was unreasonable to expect everything to be rebuilt and look pristine.

Yes, this new release is very Cameron-ed, but i dont care.

My viewing experience was phenomenal, and that's the ultimate factor by which I gauge my satisfaction with a release.

[Riddhi2011]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

I remember back when I was in the booth doing the color timing for Titanic for its theatrical release. I sent Cameron out to get me a sandwich and when he came back I showed him my work and he liked it. I can't believe how bad the new 4k UHD looks now.

IMDB says Jim Passon was the colour timer for Titanic. Did you assist him, Steven?

[escvnte]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

I remember back when I was in the booth doing the color timing for Titanic for its theatrical release. I sent Cameron out to get me a sandwich and when he came back I showed him my work and he liked it. I can't believe how bad the new 4k UHD looks now.

It's a matter of preference.
I found that It looks great in some scenes, but not so much in others to make it my absolutely "go-to" reference transfer.

But then again, how many other classics got screwed up over the years?
The Original Star Wars trilogy, the James Bond series and many others got "poor" transfers when they hit Blu-ray territory.

If I think that Roland Emmerich movies got much better treatment and top-notch transfers, over the years, on home video, compared to TITANIC, Star Wars and many other popular classics, it makes me kinda scream "a shame, and a wasted opportunity to push the format".

If only this was a Sony/Columbia Pictures movie, we would've probably have a proper "definitive" reference edition, by now (see MIB, for example.......a movie that came out 2 months before TITANIC. It looks exactly the same as I saw it in theaters).

[Chad Rouch]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Ehhhhh. If we were discussing colour timing alone then I'd be inclined to agree (moving targets and all that) but there's a massive difference between the inevitable vagaries of photochemical film and the kind of purely digital enhancement that Cameron - and Lucas, and Jackson - applies to his films decades after the fact.

What it looked like in 1997 - even in 2012 - is irrelevant, what it looks like on the OG negative is irrelevant, this is about how Cameron wants it to look now and he will use whatever means necessary to achieve that goal. I mean, we've literally got those gorgeous negative scans from 2012 to compare to the 2023 iteration and one looks entirely filmic, infused with the visibly noisy dye clouds of the 500-speed emulsion of the time, while the other has had the grain eradicated, the detail sharpened up and a layer of gentle but entirely fake grain laid back over the top - which is something that Cameron has done to several of his movies on prior transfers, in case you weren't aware.

Titanic's UHD looks astonishingly sharp but it's now a new product, some kind of film/digital hybrid that does things to the source no one thought possible in 1997. It is unquestionably revisionism but if people just want to say that it's betterer because they like it like that then they should do so, they don't need to rely on the comfort blanket of Schrödinger's Cat-type reasoning to soothe their conscience.

Again, that may well be. You're obviously a very educated person on this subject. But no one here knows what Cameron's intentions were then or now outside of a few curated quotes by a journalist. No one knows what's inside Cameron's head to start assigning intentions to his work then or now. No one knows for certain that what's there now isn't closer to the original negative, or closer to his original artistic intent, than what's come before. At best, all of this discussion is educated guesswork.

[steve_dave]

A piece of art has been hung upside down for 75 years. Same question: do you hang it correctly and was that the artist’s intention. Can hang it correctly destroy it?

Without the artist’s involvement, we’ll never know. Cameron is around to sign off on his artistic work and say that’s his definitive word. Maybe when he is gone, someone here will fix his work and no one in the future will know.

[blakninja]

Cameron only spent 1 week doing restoration for 4 movies? That's not much.

[videopat]

Originally Posted by steve_dave

A piece of art has been hung upside down for 75 years. Same question: do you hang it correctly and was that the artist’s intention. Can hang it correctly destroy it?

Without the artist’s involvement, we’ll never know. Cameron is around to sign off on his artistic work and say that’s his definitive word. Maybe when he is gone, someone here will fix his work and no one in the future will know.

I'm not sure this analogy holds up. JC isn't known as some idiosyncratic artist, his rep is more that of an exacting visual technician; someone known for personally overseeing every granular technical detail of his productions. Which makes his seeming inability (or refusal) to produce solid, organic masters of his older shot-on-celluloid work all the more baffling.

[Marv Inc.]

Originally Posted by blakninja

Cameron only spent 1 week doing restoration for 4 movies? That's not much.

One week per film.

[steve_dave]

Originally Posted by videopat

I'm not sure this analogy holds up. JC isn't known as some idiosyncratic artist, his rep is more that of an exacting visual technician; someone known for personally overseeing every granular technical detail of his productions. Which makes his seeming inability (or refusal) to produce solid, organic masters of his older shot-on-celluloid work all the more baffling.

Art is art. Regardless of medium.

[PowellPressburger]

I know we are heavy into transfer discussion

But I have a question.. I you could fan edit the film what would you do to it?

For me I'd chip so much of the "present day" exploration and cringeworthy dialogue, especially that obnoxious guy.

I'd edit it to have Cal

[Show spoiler]kill Fabrizo

cause the more Billy Zane we get the better.

I'd also really edit that spitting scene, it's just gross, I get it's inclusion but I'm sorry I'm with Frances Fisher on that moment

[BrandonJF]

Originally Posted by Chad Rouch

Again, that may well be. You're obviously a very educated person on this subject. But no one here knows what Cameron's intentions were then or now outside of a few curated quotes by a journalist. No one knows what's inside Cameron's head to start assigning intentions to his work then or now. No one knows for certain that what's there now isn't closer to the original negative, or closer to his original artistic intent, than what's come before. At best, all of this discussion is educated guesswork.

I think we do know his intentions now - it's in our hands. I get it that we can't say whether this is representing his original intent or if he changed his mind and this is how he wants it to look now, not that I think it matters much. I think everyone can agree that this UHD represents how Cameron wants the UHD to look. That's just what some disagree with - like all of Lucas' changes, many aren't going to care what the director wants. They want the first version not what the director landed on this week.

I do understand that, but in this case, I was pretty pleased with what Cameron landed on this week. Now, had Jack screamed "Maclunkey!" as the ship went down, I'd be irate.

But, I'm not mad if the water looks too wet.

[liamjaco1998]

Originally Posted by BrandonJF

I think we do know his intentions now - it's in our hands. I get it that we can't say whether this is representing his original intent or if he changed his mind and this is how he wants it to look now, not that I think it matters much. I think everyone can agree that this UHD represents how Cameron wants the UHD to look. That's just what some disagree with - like all of Lucas' changes, many aren't going to care what the director wants. They want the first version not what the director landed on this week.

I do understand that, but in this case, I was pretty pleased with what Cameron landed on this week. Now, had Jack screamed "Maclunkey!" as the ship went down, I'd be irate.

But, I'm not mad if the water looks too wet.

The 35mm print is available for people to see if they really really wanted to, so I believe Cameron did the remaster and did it right seeing most of the reviews online, so it was done right just not how ‘major in-depth detail’ fans wanted but surely they can make their own copy if it makes that much.