Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[stonesfan129]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Sadly that may be required of Disney titles. Below is the response to my Kingdom of Heaven that is now defective.

[Show spoiler]

Hello Wendell R.,


Thank you for your email. We regret to inform you that the Disc Replacement Program for damaged discs is no longer available.


If you are experiencing playback issues with one of our DVDs or Blu-ray Discs, please click here for troubleshooting tips that can resolve many of those issues.


If you have any other questions or concerns, please feel free to reply to this email or visit us at www.DisneyStudiosHelp.com.


Sincerely,


Patty
Walt Disney Studios Distribution Consumer Relations
US and Canada



For answers to Frequently Asked Questions, please visit our Guest Service Center here.



ref:

Well that's pretty nice. They sell you a defective product and instead of standing behind their product, their response is "buy it again."

Do these people think we are all rich?

For some reason, I picture them laughing like Dave Chappelle in the "Charlie Murphy" sketch where he kicks his muddy boots off on Eddie Murphy's couch and goes "Buy another one ya rich m*******!"

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by stmhlm

I'm just imagining a future where physical media can be had in the shape similar in size and functionality of an SD card. I think it's brilliant

Call me stupid ...

Then pitch your brilliant idea to the movie/ TV industry and see what happens. See if they think if you have invented the better mousetrap. If you succeed I will be the first to congratulate you.

I would never call you stupid anymore than I would call people who like slipcovers "whiners." The slipcover comment was meant to be funny, but it is very much a fact that physical media collectors like them. Slips sometimes sell online for more than the disc itself.

Physical media has a future, but that future is in catering to enthusiasts, video/audiophiles, and collectors. It is an ever smaller market, but while it remains profitable it will continue to be served.

The heyday of physical media with its $10 billion+ in annual sales is long gone and a new format will just cause even more format fatigue. People want better support for the formats that they already own; they don't want to start over yet again.

$4.99 for new movies on a new physical media format is NOT going to happen; I would leave that idea out of your pitch meeting with the studios. "Stupid" isn't the right word here, but "delusional" is a closer fit. In the interest of civility let's go with "overly optimistic" instead.

[apollo828]

Originally Posted by deatheats

But…the industry is in a bind. They know there is money to be made by selling to the collector / enthusiast market and that purely digital doesn’t have the same appeal physical media does (even outside of the quality differences). For example, in the audio world where streaming is the norm and lossless is widely available, vinyl persists and record stores continue to thrive by selling to the collector market.

The vinyl "resurgence" is a bit of a misnomer. Among other things:

- The numbers are still painfully low compared to what they were in the 70s and 80s.
- Sales are, to some degree, propped up by the "make 80 variants of the same record" scam that takes advantage of obsessive-compulsive types. (Granted, there's a bit of this in the DVD/Blu world, with the steelbook/mediabook collectors. It's comparatively smaller, though.)
- A significant number of people buy vinyl just to have decorations in the house. There have been surveys where significant numbers of responders have admitted this.
- For better or worse, Hollywood loves pimping vinyl. How many times have you seen some movie do some stylized needle drop before the smooth 70s/80s classic comes on?
- Saying that stores "thrive" is a bit misleading. Plenty of places are barely hanging on, and are doing it out of love (and maybe a bit of grim desperation) more than for the supposed bags of loot.

Yes, I do think some studios are wondering if they can maximize their revenue by leaning into physical media a bit more. I'd argue that in 2024, that's akin to looking for loose change in your couch.

The brutal truth is that most people are perfectly content to have some algorithm serve up an endless stream of forgettable junk and nostalgic films. If that means kvetching because nobody they know has some odd film that hasn't been licensed to streaming, they'll kvetch and will then move onto the next thing. Hell, as much as I like good physical packaging, I'd be content with high-quality downloads that I can put on my server one way or another. It'd certainly mean less groaning when I look at the boxes of discs that are just collecting dust in a closet.

[Vilya]

I noticed that the retail cost for SD cards starts at about $7 for 64 gb of storage. 128 gb SD cards retail for about $15. Even at wholesale pricing it would be quite a feat to sell one with a pre-loaded movie for just $4.99 with the hopes of making a profit. Add in marketing, packaging, warehousing, and distribution costs and that fantasy dies on the vine.

My blank 50 gb dual layer blu-rays retail for about $3.12 each making them far cheaper than SD cards. My blank 25 gb single layer blu-rays retail for just 82 cents each. Blank 100 gb BD-XL discs retail for about $5.50 each. Even though these are all retail prices it can clearly be seen from these examples that existing optical media is far cheaper than SD cards gigabyte for gigabyte.

[deatheats]

Originally Posted by apollo828

…
The brutal truth is that most people are perfectly content to have some algorithm serve up an endless stream of forgettable junk and nostalgic films. If that means kvetching because nobody they know has some odd film that hasn't been licensed to streaming, they'll kvetch and will then move onto the next thing. Hell, as much as I like good physical packaging, I'd be content with high-quality downloads that I can put on my server one way or another. It'd certainly mean less groaning when I look at the boxes of discs that are just collecting dust in a closet.

Never been too concerned with what Joe Sixpack wants. That guys a fool and always has been. If you want to argue the age physical media is over because it doesn’t appeal to the masses, well that ship sailed a long time ago. I’m perfectly fine with it being a niche hobby as long as the studios and boutiques keep releasing good product.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by stmhlm

About SD cards, what if they could eliminate the need of a player, unlike discs, and be made possible to insert straight into your TV, still with encryption like discs, but big enough to allow less compression with better compression methods, closing in on the actual master in terms of quality? I mean if one is allowed to dream, I'd take it, but not sure SD cards should be completely disregarded. Maybe in a future with 12-bit displays?

The reason optical media is still being used for media distribution is simple, it is very cheap to produce. Since it is a stamped process a completed disc can be produced every few seconds.

For an SD card that has a 90 MB/S write speed and using a average Blu-ray of 33GB it would take ≈ 6 minutes to copy to a SD card. The card itself in large wholesale quantities is likely to be several times the cost of a 50GB disc.

[deatheats]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I noticed that the retail cost for SD cards starts at about $7 for 64 gb of storage. 128 gb SD cards retail for about $15. Even at wholesale pricing it would be quite a feat to sell one with a pre-loaded movie for just $4.99 with the hopes of making a profit. Add in marketing, packaging, warehousing, and distribution costs and that fantasy dies on the vine.

My blank 50 gb dual layer blu-rays retail for about $3.12 each making them far cheaper than SD cards. My blank 25 gb single layer blu-rays retail for just 82 cents each. Even though these are all retail prices it can clearly be seen from these examples that existing optical media is far cheaper than SD cards gigabyte for gigabyte.

I was about to mention the cost, and SD cards don't have the lifespan of optical media, either.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

The reason optical media is still being used for media distribution is simple, it is very cheap to produce. Since it is a stamped process a completed disc can be produced every few seconds.

For an SD card that has a 90 MB/S write speed and using a average Blu-ray of 33GB it would take ≈ 6 minutes to copy to a SD card. The card itself in large wholesale quantities is likely to be several times the cost of a 50GB disc.

6 minutes per unit is forever on a factory production line. It would be 12+ minutes per unit to record a file the size of what is typically found on a 4K disc. The manufacturing and labor costs alone would obliterate any hope of making a profit at the whimsical MSRP of $4.99.

[Vilya]

I noticed that none of my TVs even have a SD card slot.

Good luck selling people on the idea that they need to buy a new TV just to accommodate SD cards.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Then pitch your brilliant idea to the movie/ TV industry and see what happens. See if they think if you have invented the better mousetrap. If you succeed I will be the first to congratulate you.

I would never call you stupid anymore than I would call people who like slipcovers "whiners." The slipcover comment was meant to be funny, but it is very much a fact that physical media collectors like them. Slips sometimes sell online for more than the disc itself.

Physical media has a future, but that future is in catering to enthusiasts, video/audiophiles, and collectors. It is an ever smaller market, but while it remains profitable it will continue to be served.

The heyday of physical media with its $10 billion+ in annual sales is long gone and a new format will just cause even more format fatigue. People want better support for the formats that they already own; they don't want to start over yet again.

$4.99 for new movies on a new physical media format is NOT going to happen; I would leave that idea out of your pitch meeting with the studios. "Stupid" isn't the right word here, but "delusional" is a closer fit. In the interest of civility let's go with "overly optimistic" instead.

I rarely even keep any slips apart from the special ones. I find they can tear the plastic on the Blu-ray case occasionally.

I do have a nice few slips for some of the filth I own. The artwork tends to be great . I especially like The Tale Of Tiffany Lust 4K, which comes in a sturdy box with a solid cardboard slip that slots into place over the case and bottom part of box. It is very prestigious in the flesh.

Check it out and buy if you dare!

I do like a nice Steelbook however.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by stmhlm

Then close the thread, lol.

This thread is nine years-old with well over 45,000 posts and more than 3 million views; I don't think we need to close it just because *one* person's idea has yet to gain any support.

Plus, this thread is only half about physical media. The other half is about digital EST. It's kinda mentioned right there in the title of the thread.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I do have a nice few slips for some of the filth I own. The artwork tends to be great.

These type of slips should be like those fuzzy blacklight posters; they should include, let's say, a certain tactile quality.

[apollo828]

Originally Posted by deatheats

Never been too concerned with what Joe Sixpack wants. [...] I’m perfectly fine with it being a niche hobby as long as the studios and boutiques keep releasing good product.

You should care, at least to some degree. Physical media relies on a long chain of businesses contributing to everything that's required to create the shiny disc & packaging at the end of the chain. If any link in the chain fails due to lack of fiscal viability (or just plain moving on to other business interests), that's it. Coin collecting is a niche hobby. Physical media requires far more effort to justify its existence, at least for mass production.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

These type of slips should be like those fuzzy blacklight posters; they should include, let's say, a certain tactile quality.

It certainly feels good in the hand.

[Show spoiler]I love sturdy 4K packaging, what did you think I meant?

[russweiss1]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I rarely even keep any slips apart from the special ones. I find they can tear the plastic on the Blu-ray case occasionally.

I do have a nice few slips for some of the filth I own. The artwork tends to be great . I especially like The Tale Of Tiffany Lust 4K, which comes in a sturdy box with a solid cardboard slip that slots into place over the case and bottom part of box. It is very prestigious in the flesh.

Check it out and buy if you dare!

I do like a nice Steelbook however.

I've never heard that one before. Some slips are tight but unless you're not paying attention I don't see how they tear the plastic on the case.

[crutzulee]

Really glad to see some fresh perspectives in this thread...
Love all the old regulars, but the discussion has been a bit stale with all of us pretty well knowing where each one of us was coming from with our own personal bents on this topic..

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

Well that's pretty nice. They sell you a defective product and instead of standing behind their product, their response is "buy it again."

No, it was not defective when purchased 12/12/2006. Considering the number of disc that I have purchased my % of disc that have gone bad is very, very small.

My UHD BD of Lucy needed to be replaced and Universal Studios promptly sent me a new copy. Boardwalk Empire S5 disc 3 was defective so I requested a replacement disc from Warner Bros. It took them months but they replaced my entire set (5 seasons) .

In the days of LaserDisc the % of defective disc was a fair amount higher. Only had a few that were warped out of spec and would not play. Most of the defects were in the form of a glitch(s) in the video. Pioneer was very good at replacing defective disc.

If I were judging streaming at the same level then most everything we watch in the home theater would get a defective tag. In the bedroom we stream to a LG TV that is 15' away and I do not watch with my eye correction so most everything there looks good.

[Warm Gun]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

That's a good point. SD cards in tiny cases wouldn't appeal to collectors that like to display their collections. And it would be ridiculous to try to market a new physical format to anyone but collectors. Casual viewers have already moved on to streaming.

I do wonder if they've lost more buyers than they kept by putting movies in oversized, dumb cases. Space is one of the most cited reasons for people dropping physical media. Housing is far more expensive than ever. I would have been happy with CD jewel cases. You can complain about their durability all you want, but they take up about a third of the space, hold the inserts better, don't warp and cost a fraction of what UHD cases cost to replace.

[CV19]

Originally Posted by Warm Gun

I would have been happy with CD jewel cases. You can complain about their durability all you want, but they take up about a third of the space, hold the inserts better, don't warp and cost a fraction of what UHD cases cost to replace.

For individual disc releases, I'd be inclined to agree with you. Personally I've never had any issues with CD jewel cases unless they were already damaged on arrival, but they're easy and cheap to replace as you say. Over the years I have collected several film soundtracks on CD, and they all feature the original theatrical poster on the CD booklet cover. Despite the smaller size, they still look good to me.

[crutzulee]

In Toronto, there was a popular record store called THE RECORD PEDLAR that I fondly remember spending an inordinate amount of time in from middle school through early high school... before I discovered girls and sex..
As somewhat of a "collector", I resisted the original pull of cds primarily because of the rinky dink jewel cases that they came in...
My weekly ritual involved purchasing the new releases along with a new "gold" cassette. I would then go home and listen to the album in my room while recording it on the tape for use in my WALKMAN..A key part of the ritual was handling gatefold packaging, reading liner notes, lyrics and admiring the art work..

When I finally caved in to the tidal wave of cd, I ceased to be a collector and became solely a consumer of music...

Some years later, when I would hangout at the LD shop my friend worked at in university, I went through a similar transition. While a bleeding edge adopter of DVD, I still often opted for the LD of titles that I cherished when the packaging warranted it... but once I decided to go all in on the new format, I was no longer a collector...I still think it's laughable that anyone cares how a cd/dvd/bluray and now UHD is packaged.. it's all garbage in comparison to what we used to get with older physical media...
I used to use terms like Joe six pack for people who preferred open matte or pan and scan versions of titles to fill the screen they paid for... so I don't get so bent out of shape now that I've become the guy that will watch a stream of a non essential title...which..to be fair is still the majority of what I watch.