Perfect Dark - Microsoft Studios, The Initiative

[Warm Gun]

Don't care for her design, find this generic first-person parkour rote at this point, and centering gun before almost every shot makes me not want to play it.

[Modren]

I would much rather have seen a smaller-scope throwback to the classic gameplay style of the original instead of this over-designed, focus-tested-into-oblivion "AAAA" slop.

[bradnoyes]

This looks a bit better that I anticipated. I think it makes sense for the series to move into a more immersive sim route, but I also think it's sad and a little disgraceful that MS didn't simply hand development duties to Arkane, one of the best immersive sim developers in the business. Instead they had them work on something that the studio was completely unfamiliar with and then shut them down when it didn't work out.

It just sucks. Arkane could have knocked something like this out of the park. God-only-knows how much money MS spent putting together this brand new studio but considering how much IP they control these days they could have easily had them work on something else (maybe even something new!) and avoided shuttering one of the coolest AAA studios.

[QuasidodoJr]

Anybody down on this game is in the minority. The hype for this game just about everywhere else is through the roof. This is being described by the devs as a first person spy shooter with immersive sim-like gameplay, and multiple paths and choices to make through the single player missions. The combat is a mix of gunplay, melee combat and a large array of gadgets. It looks really impressive to me. Considering not too long ago, people were convinced this game would never see the light of day, we instead see really good looking gameplay. I am looking forward to this a LOT.

Originally Posted by bradnoyes

This looks a bit better that I anticipated. I think it makes sense for the series to move into a more immersive sim route, but I also think it's sad and a little disgraceful that MS didn't simply hand development duties to Arkane, one of the best immersive sim developers in the business. Instead they had them work on something that the studio was completely unfamiliar with and then shut them down when it didn't work out.

It just sucks. Arkane could have knocked something like this out of the park. God-only-knows how much money MS spent putting together this brand new studio but considering how much IP they control these days they could have easily had them work on something else (maybe even something new!) and avoided shuttering one of the coolest AAA studios.

Redfall was in production for 2 years before Microsoft even acquired Bethesda. And Perfect Dark has been in development since before they acquired Bethesda. Phil still stepped up and took the blame for Redfall. He said because the acquisition of ABK started happening so close to the acquisition of Bethesda, that the majority of his attention and focus was going there and not giving more personal attention to the studios they have and that he wishes it could have gone differently.

[bradnoyes]

The mismanagement of the whole thing is sad. And to learn that Eidos-Montreal is now helping with Fable makes it all even more bizarre. Arkane and E-M had so much in common and developed some of the best immersive sim titles over the years. They've both suffered due to mismanagement and now Arkane is no more after being closed by Microsoft, yet E-M is working on a 1st party Microsoft title. It's crazy that MS would feel the need to outsource to E-M when they had Arkane right there.

Hopefully all these games turn out. Perfect Dark looks like it could be fun. And it does give me hope to know that E-M is helping with Fable. They're a talented studio and I had a lot of doubts about Playground Games being able to handle the design and development of something like Fable on their own.

[heyadol]

Originally Posted by bradnoyes

This looks a bit better that I anticipated. I think it makes sense for the series to move into a more immersive sim route, but I also think it's sad and a little disgraceful that MS didn't simply hand development duties to Arkane, one of the best immersive sim developers in the business. Instead they had them work on something that the studio was completely unfamiliar with and then shut them down when it didn't work out.

[Show spoiler]It just sucks. Arkane could have knocked something like this out of the park. God-only-knows how much money MS spent putting together this brand new studio but considering how much IP they control these days they could have easily had them work on something else (maybe even something new!) and avoided shuttering one of the coolest AAA studios.

I often see this type of statement that Redfall was a MS Corporate decision, but the game was already in production for a few years when Bethesda was acquired. In fact, reports demonstrate Arkane employees were hoping MS Corpos would step in and change the game to the kind of game Arkane was known for. Not defending Redfall here, just think if you really want to blame someone it should be pointed in the right direction.

Things allegedly became so bad at Arkane that, despite having put two years into Redfall at the time of the Xbox acquisition, staff wished it would be rebooted as a single player game or cancelled altogether.

The switch to a multiplayer focus, which was reportedly pushed for by parent company ZeniMax, appeared to be a major cause of Redfall's issues. Developers who worked on the single player Prey (which is a format Arkane is known for thanks to hits like Dishonored) were now working on a multiplayer game, and Bloomberg reported that 70% of these staff members left by the end of Redfall's development.

https://www.ign.com/articles/redfall...ould-cancel-it

[bradnoyes]

Not saying there isn't blame to go around (Bethesda had been on a downward trajectory for years before the MS acquisition), but ultimately it was MS that dumped Redfall out to die on GamePass and shut down the studio. They had plenty of time to right the ship or cut their losses and move Arkane onto something else, but they didn't. It's nice of Phil Spencer to shoulder the blame, but that's pretty much become his role at MS--shoulder the blame for all of these mistakes. Whether they were his mistakes or not isn't quite clear to me. I'm still not sure how much power he really has when it comes to the biggest decisions in the gaming division.

Anyway, the good news is that it does look like MS might finally be turning a corner here. After all of those billions of dollars in acquisitions they finally have a slate up multiple upcoming games across various genres that look pretty good. I just hope we don't see several of the developers of said games get closed down if/when they fail to move the needle of GamePas subscriptions.

[QuasidodoJr]

Originally Posted by bradnoyes

Not saying there isn't blame to go around (Bethesda had been on a downward trajectory for years before the MS acquisition), but ultimately it was MS that dumped Redfall out to die on GamePass and shut down the studio. They had plenty of time to right the ship or cut their losses and move Arkane onto something else, but they didn't. It's nice of Phil Spencer to shoulder the blame, but that's pretty much become his role at MS--shoulder the blame for all of these mistakes. Whether they were his mistakes or not isn't quite clear to me. I'm still not sure how much power he really has when it comes to the biggest decisions in the gaming division.

Anyway, the good news is that it does look like MS might finally be turning a corner here. After all of those billions of dollars in acquisitions they finally have a slate up multiple upcoming games across various genres that look pretty good. I just hope we don't see several of the developers of said games get closed down if/when they fail to move the needle of GamePas subscriptions.

There’s also the fact that the majority of the dev team that actually worked on Prey left within the first two years of development on Redfall. As has been talked about numerous times before Arkane Austin was closed, there was absolutely no passion for the project within the studio. New staff that had been hired came in all excited to work for the “team that made Prey”, expecting to work on an immersive sim, only to find out they were instead working on a live service looter shooter. There was massive turnover before the project launched. I think Microsoft gave them that full year to try to turn the game around, and after a full year of the game being released, they only managed a handful of updates. And nothing that made the game that much better. The live service template has claimed more victims inside the industry than it should have ever been allowed to.

As for Microsoft bringing in other teams to help, I think it has as much to do with helping speed up the development process as it does with added expertise. Not drawing studios from within their own stable is so they don’t distract those teams from the projects they’re working on.

[heyadol]

Originally Posted by bradnoyes

Not saying there isn't blame to go around (Bethesda had been on a downward trajectory for years before the MS acquisition), but ultimately it was MS that dumped Redfall out to die on GamePass and shut down the studio. They had plenty of time to right the ship or cut their losses and move Arkane onto something else, but they didn't. It's nice of Phil Spencer to shoulder the blame, but that's pretty much become his role at MS--shoulder the blame for all of these mistakes. Whether they were his mistakes or not isn't quite clear to me. I'm still not sure how much power he really has when it comes to the biggest decisions in the gaming division.

Anyway, the good news is that it does look like MS might finally be turning a corner here. After all of those billions of dollars in acquisitions they finally have a slate up multiple upcoming games across various genres that look pretty good. I just hope we don't see several of the developers of said games get closed down if/when they fail to move the needle of GamePas subscriptions.

It always just seems like a catch 22. People are upset with Microsoft for intervening whether it happened or not (as in making decisions at the wrong level/upper management forcing design/gameplay decisions on Arkane Austin), but people are also upset that Microsoft upper management didn't intervene or course-correct on the same project. (I probably should have just stopped at "people are upset with Microsoft" because that is the bottom line.)

I also wonder if it would have mattered if someone with authority did intervene and Redfall was turned around. Tango Gameworks was closed at the same time as Arkane Austin, and that was shortly after a critical hit. A weird decision by Bethesda alongside several other unexpected decisions that happened within Microsoft Gaming over the last few years.

[dyne]

I think even IF the game was turned around it never would have made it's money back.

[demonbeast]

Just going off the recent trailer I guess NPC look so stiff you can almost see the A.I pathfinding.
I hope this is good but while the N64 game is well thought off the X360 title wasn't great although it was hyped up and I think this will be similar Perfect Dark in inspiration only.
I do agree with other posters if this has been in development for something like five years with companies coming and going and a host of development problems I don't see much hope for the title to be profitable let alone a direct sequel to follow it.

[heyadol]

Originally Posted by demonbeast

Just going off the recent trailer I guess NPC look so stiff you can almost see the A.I pathfinding.
I hope this is good but while the N64 game is well thought off the X360 title wasn't great although it was hyped up and I think this will be similar Perfect Dark in inspiration only.
I do agree with other posters if this has been in development for something like five years with companies coming and going and a host of development problems I don't see much hope for the title to be profitable let alone a direct sequel to follow it.

More interested in if the game is fun than if the game is profitable

I get what you mean though, all that churn and inner turmoil at The Initiative carries heavy baggage that will continue to be a talking point unless the game delivers.

[dyne]

I’m hoping it looks so stiff because it was a carefully choreographed slice of gameplay they put together and not how it’ll look when it’s finished.

[QuasidodoJr]

It’s also basically alpha footage. Trying to over analyze what they’ve shown is probably jumping the gun just a bit. They at least showed us what they’re going for. And it looks fun.

[Modren]

Originally Posted by QuasidodoJr

It’s also basically alpha footage. Trying to over analyze what they’ve shown is probably jumping the gun just a bit. They at least showed us what they’re going for. And it looks fun.

I think it's fair to scrutinize a piece of promotional material, no matter how early they are in development. If they weren't ready for people to pick it apart, they wouldn't have shown it off. I also think it's fair to skeptical of this game even without the trailer - it's had a protracted development cycle, the developers haven't really tackled a game like this before, the last PD sucked, and Microsoft has shown that it's really, really bad at managing its studios recently.

[QuasidodoJr]

Originally Posted by Modren

I think it's fair to scrutinize a piece of promotional material, no matter how early they are in development. If they weren't ready for people to pick it apart, they wouldn't have shown it off. I also think it's fair to skeptical of this game even without the trailer - it's had a protracted development cycle, the developers haven't really tackled a game like this before, the last PD sucked, and Microsoft has shown that it's really, really bad at managing its studios recently.

How so? What have they managed badly? Are we going with Redfall? That was in development before Microsoft acquired Bethesda. Starfield? A game with a lot of people still playing it and a positive overall score from critics. Is it because of Tango? As much as I loved Tango, their last two games both sold very poorly, Ghostwire and Hi-Fi Rush, although both games were considered to be good and/or great. Hi-Fi Rush was ported to PS5 and still failed to move the sales needle, despite being lauded by critics and influencers.

Pentiment, Grounded, Forza Motorsport, Forza Horizon 5, Age of Empires IV, Psychonauts 2, Senua’s Saga Hellblade 2, even Halo Infinite all reviewed well. Sure, Halo Infinite’s MP had struggles to start, but anyone still playing will tell you it’s way better than when it launched.

Sony’s been struggling with their studios recently, also. Should we start doubting their output, too? Canceling a bunch of games. Concord arriving like a wet fart. The kerfluffle with Helldivers 2 that the game still hasn’t recovered from. All of the issues they’ve had with Bungie since acquiring them. Wasting years of their best studios time with poor live service decisions.

People are just overly critical of Xbox because a lot of gamers only want to own one console and most have already bought into the PS5 and it’s ecosystem.

[Verisimilitude1984]

This reveal looked very promising. Need to see more though.

Only concerns were - motion sickness and I'd like to see more Blade Runner-esque future levels, which the original did well early on.

[Prog5000]

Based on the footage I’m disappointed. I’ve waited a long time for this game and it seems to have taken a route that isn’t my cup of tea. Hopefully those that play it, like it.

[dyne]

Originally Posted by dyne

I’m hoping it looks so stiff because it was a carefully choreographed slice of gameplay they put together and not how it’ll look when it’s finished.

And to echo what I said in other threads about how it was heavily scripted.

https://www.purexbox.com/news/2025/0...meplay-trailer

-Taking to social media earlier today, former Perfect Dark level designer Adam McDonald explained that although parts of the trailer "did have fake stuff in it", the demo was actually playable and was not intended to "knowingly lie to players about what the game will be" whenever it eventually released.

"This demo. It is actually in-engine. I was one of three level designers that worked on it. It worked best if you played it the way the person playing in the video plays it, but it still worked even if you didn't hit the marks perfectly."

"There's some fake stuff in it, and the real gameplay systems shown off worked juuust enough to look good in this video. We were rapidly making real design decisions so as to not knowingly lie to players about what the game will be. The parkour is all real, the hacking/deception is mostly real."

"The combat is "real" in that someone had to really do all that stuff in the video, but it's set up to be played exactly that way and didn't play well if you played it a different way."

"I'm seeing big controversy over "THIS WHOLE THING WAS FAKE" and it's annoying me, so I wanted to say something."

-In follow-up posts, he said he'd heard the team had "turned a corner in recent months" and that things were "moving along" and going "better than ever" - in contrast to the "huge chunk of time" he spent in "development hell" at the studio.

Wow. 7 years of development hell to finally "turn a corner". Sad folks lost their jobs but there's just no excuse. Of course management (who should be blamed) will fall upwards while everyone else scrambles to make due.

I'd even forgotten about my earlier post in this thread about all the studio issues.

[QuasidodoJr]

This to me was the most bizarre announcement to come out. This definitely seems like an upper management decision at Microsoft, and not a decision that the Xbox division would make on their own. Otherwise, why bother with the whole trailer reveal and hype at the Showcase last year, only to cancel it a year later? This is the same problem that has hurt the PS5 so much. Higher ups with no idea about gaming making decisions based solely on bottom line profit. This move literally makes Xbox look stupid. But that seems to be a big theme this console generation. Redfall, Concord, countless other live service games - now hyping this game up A LOT and then canceling it. Very dumb.