Thelma & Louise 4K UHD (1991) Capelight

[nicwood]

Announced by Capelight for 2024 as a Mediabook release.

[bebbsie23]

As much as I love the Criterion, I had to order this for the original art. I'll be keeping both simply because this is my favorite movie of all time. I wish it didn't have the fugly red and blue banners at top, as they crop too much off the polaroid image, but I'm hoping perhaps its only on a removable J-Card. Curious to know if they can improve on the video presentation and how the PCM 2.0 (original Dolby Surround mix?) compares to the Criterion 5.1.

[Kyle15]

Originally Posted by bebbsie23

As much as I love the Criterion, I had to order this for the original art. I'll be keeping both simply because this is my favorite movie of all time. I wish it didn't have the fugly red and blue banners at top, as they crop too much off the polaroid image, but I'm hoping perhaps its only on a removable J-Card. Curious to know if they can improve on the video presentation and how the PCM 2.0 (original Dolby Surround mix?) compares to the Criterion 5.1.

Criterion's 5.1 is the original LCRS reconfigured as a 5.1 track, so it should be the same. Would be interesting to compare and see though.

[bebbsie23]

Originally Posted by Kyle15

Criterion's 5.1 is the original LCRS reconfigured as a 5.1 track, so it should be the same. Would be interesting to compare and see though.

Yeah, I recall that being the case. Seems like a waste of bits to include it, if it doesn't offer anything different. Seeing this, makes me wish Arrow or Second Sight had snagged the rights for the UK. I'd love a big meaty box with a book similar to what we're getting for The Hitcher

[nicwood]

Originally Posted by bebbsie23

As much as I love the Criterion, I had to order this for the original art. I'll be keeping both simply because this is my favorite movie of all time. I wish it didn't have the fugly red and blue banners at top, as they crop too much off the polaroid image, but I'm hoping perhaps its only on a removable J-Card. Curious to know if they can improve on the video presentation and how the PCM 2.0 (original Dolby Surround mix?) compares to the Criterion 5.1.

Re. the video presentation: I can well imagine that the encode looks better when compared to the Criterion as they were still low-pass filtering their masters to ease the encode at the time. I’ve been made aware that the same team that worked on Capelight’s other very good recent UHDs also did Thelma & Louise. FWIW, the authoring house Capelight uses is not LSP but another one in Germany, so we’ve got two really good ones over here.

[surfinhank]

Originally Posted by nicwood

Re. the video presentation: I can well imagine that the encode looks better when compared to the Criterion as they were still low-pass filtering their masters to ease the encode at the time. I’ve been made aware that the same team that worked on Capelight’s other very good recent UHDs also did Thelma & Louise. FWIW, the authoring house Capelight uses is not LSP but another one in Germany, so we’ve got two really good ones over here.

That's encouraging. Do you know if the color grading is the same as the Criterion?

[nicwood]

Originally Posted by surfinhank

That's encouraging. Do you know if the color grading is the same as the Criterion?

Sorry I’ve got no idea. I’d expect the same Ridley Scott-supervised master that’s on the Criterion UHD. The other recent (MGM) Capelight releases that had international versions before were sourced from the identical US masters.

[siso]

There are caps at caps-a-holic looks like the 4K is sdr, it looks kinda darker than the criterion 4k and bd.

[Hedrox]

Originally Posted by siso

There are caps at caps-a-holic looks like the 4K is sdr, it looks kinda darker than the criterion 4k and bd.

There's a BDinfo scan of both discs at the bottom of the page, this is for the Capelight disc:

Codec Bitrate Description
----- ------- -----------
MPEG-H HEVC Video 73006 kbps 2160p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 @ Level 5.1 @ High / 10 bits / HDR10 / BT.2020
* MPEG-H HEVC Video 11705 kbps 1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 @ Level 5.1 @ High / 10 bits / Dolby Vision / BT.2020

What seems to be happening is the screencaps from the CP disc are taken by converting to BT.709. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

[siso]

You are right, it indeed has dolby vision and hdr.

[nicwood]

Originally Posted by Hedrox

There's a BDinfo scan of both discs at the bottom of the page, this is for the Capelight disc:



What seems to be happening is the screencaps from the CP disc are taken by converting to BT.709. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, probably they changed their tone-mapping settings and/or switched their capturing software in general. The Capelight could surely be darker in reality too but it would surprise me. The encode itself is beautiful just as predicted.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by nicwood

Yes, probably they changed their tone-mapping settings and/or switched their capturing software in general. The Capelight could surely be darker in reality too but it would surprise me. The encode itself is beautiful just as predicted.

Beautiful? Really? I see the same poor chroma containment that infests Capelight's stuff eg https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=1&x...9&l=0&i=4&go=1

I'm happy that you're happy with them, but there's no excuse for such a high average bitrate to have artefacts like that (plus the chroma channels are subtly bleeding out throughout the movie eg https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=3&x...&l=0&i=10&go=1) and such a huge Dobly layer for a base layer that size is a disgrace. Sorry, but I'm yet to be convinced of Capelight's supposed encoding prowess.

[nicwood]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Beautiful? Really? I see the same poor chroma containment that infests Capelight's stuff eg https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=1&x...9&l=0&i=4&go=1

I'm happy that you're happy with them, but there's no excuse for such a high average bitrate to have artefacts like that (plus the chroma channels are subtly bleeding out throughout the movie eg https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=3&x...&l=0&i=10&go=1) and such a huge Dobly layer for a base layer that size is a disgrace. Sorry, but I'm yet to be convinced of Capelight's supposed encoding prowess.

I've just answered you in the Criterion thread and would love to hear your thoughts.

[kmhofmann]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Beautiful? Really? I see the same poor chroma containment that infests Capelight's stuff eg https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=1&x...9&l=0&i=4&go=1

I'm happy that you're happy with them, but there's no excuse for such a high average bitrate to have artefacts like that (plus the chroma channels are subtly bleeding out throughout the movie eg https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=3&x...&l=0&i=10&go=1) and such a huge Dobly layer for a base layer that size is a disgrace. Sorry, but I'm yet to be convinced of Capelight's supposed encoding prowess.

I can see the Chroma issues but they're more acceptable to me than the low-pass filtered grain of the Criterion, especially in your screencap crop. (Caveat, I haven't seen the disc in motion yet.)
The ideal encode would have neither of these issues, of course.

[The Mole]

As I am not an expert on UHDs and HDR and stuff: Can anyone explain to me in simple terms what chroma is and what chroma bleading and chroma noise mean?

[Ben_UK]

Does the chroma issue only appear in HDR10 and DV fixes it or vice versa?

[cochon]

Originally Posted by The Mole

As I am not an expert on UHDs and HDR and stuff: Can anyone explain to me in simple terms what chroma is and what chroma bleading and chroma noise mean?

In plain terms they are talking about colours overflowing in areas that they shouldn't be.
https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=3&x...&l=0&i=10&go=1

If you pay attention to the word "tire" or her hair on the link and hover in and out of the image to swap the images you will see the red in the letters in one of the images starts bleeding outside of the letters. To me this far from being the worst example but if you are very picky or watch on a large screen it might become more of a problem. I don't think it has anything to do with UHD and HDR, you might see this problem on any type of disc but on a UHD there is less excuse for this to happen.

[Hedrox]

Originally Posted by cochon

In plain terms they are talking about colours overflowing in areas that they shouldn't be.
https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=3&x...&l=0&i=10&go=1

If you pay attention to the word "tire" or her hair on the link and hover in and out of the image to swap the images you will see the red in the letters in one of the images starts bleeding outside of the letters. To me this far from being the worst example but if you are very picky or watch on a large screen it might become more of a problem. I don't think it has anything to do with UHD and HDR, you might see this problem on any type of disc but on a UHD there is less excuse for this to happen.

To be fair that's a 400% zoom, doubt you'll be able to notice it in motion unless you're looking for it. Also color bleeding isn't really chroma noise.

Chroma noise are artifacts that appear as random specks of color and result in what look like splotches or color distortions.

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=2&x...9&l=0&i=4&go=1

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=2&x...&l=0&i=20&go=1

[nicwood]

Originally Posted by Ben_UK

Does the chroma issue only appear in HDR10 and DV fixes it or vice versa?

I haven’t watched the film in full yet, so can’t say it’s 100% gone in DV but much, much better than HDR10 and essentially invisible in motion.

[alexpeden2000]

I've just pulled up that scene in VLC and I think it may have something to do with the caps website as it looks nothing like that in the player. Not saying it's not there at all but nowhere near as noticable as that cap. No way you'd ever see anything in motion..