The Name of the Rose 4K UHD (1986)

[Katatonia]

Originally Posted by McCrutchy

Back cover:

[Show spoiler]

Here is a scan of the disc I found online, which shows the disc as being a 66 GB disc with only DTS-HD HR 5.1 audio.

[Show spoiler]

Disc Size:      58,856,907,160 bytes
Protection:     AACS2
Extras:         Ultra HD
BDInfo:         0.8.0.1b

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:           00003.MPLS
Length:         02:11:36.541 (h:m:s.ms)
Size:           58,413,739,584 bytes
Total Bitrate:  59.18 Mbps

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description

MPEG-H HEVC Video       51721 kbps         2160p / 24 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 @ Level 5.1 @ High / 4:2:0 / 10 bits / Limited Range / BT.2020 / PQ / BT.2020 non-constant

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description

DTS-HD High-Res Audio           German           2046 kbps      5.1 / 48 kHz /  2046 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz /  1509 kbps / 24-bit)
Dolby Digital Audio             German            224 kbps      2.0 / 48 kHz /   224 kbps / DN -31dB
DTS-HD High-Res Audio           English          2046 kbps      5.1 / 48 kHz /  2046 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz /  1509 kbps / 24-bit)
Dolby Digital Audio             German            224 kbps      2.0 / 48 kHz /   224 kbps / DN -31dB

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description

Presentation Graphics           German          43.01 kbps      1920x1080 / 1400 Captions
Presentation Graphics           German           0.44 kbps      1920x1080 / 11 Captions
Presentation Graphics           English          0.43 kbps      1920x1080 / 15 Captions

I'm unsure what the small English subtitle file is. It's been a long while since I've seen the film and I don't remember if there was any subtitled dialogue or not.

Wow, it doesn't even have lossless audio? Easy pass then... the more I hear about this release, the happier I'll just stick with the old Blu-ray until a better 4K release comes along.

[Jospef]

Originally Posted by McCrutchy

Here is a scan of the disc I found online, which shows the disc as being a 66 GB disc with only DTS-HD HR 5.1 audio.

I'm unsure what the small English subtitle file is. It's been a long while since I've seen the film and I don't remember if there was any subtitled dialogue or not.

It is unfortunate there is only DTS-HD HR 5.1 audio; sadly previous Constantin releases like Perfume or NeverEnding Story also had only DTS-HD HR.

Strangely, the scan doesn't show HDR at all (but is mentioned on the back cover); French UHD had Dolby Vision, but here should have been at least HDR10.

I have a guess about those English "subtitles". There might be subtitles in the film in German (or Latin in this case) - like credits at the beginning or at the end; and because of that there are those English generated subtitles (it shows only "15 captions"). It was similar to German Detroit UHD: there were intro and outro credits in German (like burnt in image) - and English subtitles appeared only for these few moments.

I should have my copy tomorrow, so will check myself about that. Will try to do some screenshot comparison to French UHD as well.

[TheHutt]

Originally Posted by Jospef

I have a guess about those English "subtitles". There might be subtitles in the film in German (or Latin in this case) - like credits at the beginning or at the end

It's not the credits.
There are several passages in the film where there are subtitled Latin dialogs.

Here an example from the Warner DVD:

[thethingwithnoname]

Can't disagree with him there!

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by TheHutt

It's not the credits.
There are several passages in the film where there are subtitled Latin dialogs.

Here an example from the Warner DVD:

...of Orson Welles.

[Menteith]

The French one has a superior compression and looks much better than the German release - is it true that the French 4K features forced subtitles?

[leoganzi]

Originally Posted by Menteith

The French one has a superior compression and looks much better than the German release - is it true that the French 4K features forced subtitles?

The French subs on the French 4K are forced, but you could move them out of the screen by changing the position, depending on your player. Panasonic, for instance.

[TheHutt]

Just checked: the Latin phrases are translated via player subs; German when German audio is selected, English when English.

[andreasy969]

I just took a look at the BD and got triggered. I did expect German titles. Fine. I can live with that. But why tf are there a couple of English credits in between? Seriously why?

German








suddenly English as if they couldn't find "Ausführende Produzenten" (they had an 'Ü' though)








and back to German with Kostümdesign followed by Mr Horner




I just don't get it. Unless there is a very good reason.

[TheHutt]

That's how they originally worded it in the German theateical version. Some words, they kept English job titles (Executive Producers). Other, they kept English job titles, but wrote them differently (German: "Casting", English: "Casting By"). As I said, I already noticed it in the German version from 1986.

The worst thing about the credits is, rather, that when redoing the titles for 4K digitally, they introduced a typo in the Production Designer's name (Dante Ferretti missing one "T").

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by TheHutt

That's how they originally worded it in the German theateical version. Some words, they kept English job titles (Executive Producers). Other, they kept English words but differently (German: "Casting", English: "Casting By").

The worst thing is rather, that when redoing the titles for 4K digitally, they introduced a typo in the Production Designer's name (Dante Ferretti missing one "T").

Thx and that's a good enough reason for me then. It's totally odd and still kinda wtf, but I can accept that as original then. I didn't own a German release before. And while I do remember my parents watching it at the cinema, I didn't.

[nicwood]

Originally Posted by TheHutt

The site Bluray-disc.de updated their infos. Now it is DTS-HDMA, like it should be.

Would you mind updating your OP with the now finally confirmed info about the HR audio? Thanks!

[nicwood]

Originally Posted by Menteith

The French one has a superior compression and looks much better than the German release - is it true that the French 4K features forced subtitles?

This really is quite a feat because the French disc isn’t the best either compression-wise but Constantin still managed to underperform it by a wide margin even in SDR. This company…

[Menteith]

Comparison Pics from a user on movieside:
https://slow.pics/c/r5A4wY6C

[andreasy969]

Couldn't take a look at mine yet, but above doesn't look good to put it mildly. Constantin really is pathetic. Too bad the French one isn't German or English friendly. I could/would have to combine the French one with the English or German subs of the German one, but I guess I'll just stick with the German one for now...

[TheHutt]

Originally Posted by nicwood

Would you mind updating your OP with the now finally confirmed info about the HR audio? Thanks!

Done.

[DMRI2006]

I ordered the German disc because I was turned off by the forced subs on the French disc (player could only move them partially off-screen) and I wasn't bowled over with the transfer. The HDR looked like someone had turned on Dolby Vision like it was being applied to an SDR source (kind of like how you can automatically apply it on some players), either way it wasn't that impressive.

Sorry to hear about the compression on this German disc but I'll take a look myself when it rolls in eventually. Hopefully we get a superior release, somewhere else, than either of these two.

[Jospef]

Here are some disc numbers:

My UHD scan:

[Show spoiler]

Disc Title:     Der_Name_der_Rose_UHD
Disc Size:      58,877,343,744 bytes
Protection:     AACS2
Extras:         Ultra HD
BDInfo:         0.7.5.9 (compatible layout created by DVDFab 12.0.5.8)

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:                   00003.MPLS  
Length:                 2:11:36.541 (h:m:s.ms)
Size:                   58,413,742,080 bytes
Total Bitrate:          59.18 Mbps

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
MPEG-H HEVC Video       51722 kbps          2160p / 24 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 @ Level 5.1 @ High / 4:2:0 / 10 bits / 1000nits / HDR10 / BT.2020

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
DTS-HD High-Res Audio           German          2046 kbps       5.1 / 48 kHz / 2046 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit)
Dolby Digital Audio             German          224 kbps        2.0 / 48 kHz / 224 kbps
DTS-HD High-Res Audio           English         2046 kbps       5.1 / 48 kHz / 2046 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit)
Dolby Digital Audio             German          224 kbps        2.0 / 48 kHz / 224 kbps

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           German          43.012 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           German          0.441 kbps                      
Presentation Graphics           English         0.434 kbps*

+ mediainfo:

Mastering display color primaries        : BT.2020
Mastering display luminance              : min: 0.0050 cd/m2, max: 1000 cd/m2
Maximum Content Light Level              : 332 cd/m2
Maximum Frame-Average Light Level        : 716 cd/m2

File size                                : 54.4 GiB
Duration                                 : 2 h 11 min
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 59.2 Mb/s
Maximum Overall bit rate                 : 109 Mb/s
Frame rate                               : 24.000 FPS

BD scan:

[Show spoiler]

Disc Title:     DER NAME DER ROSE
Disc Size:      47,224,322,048 bytes
Protection:     AACS
Extras:         50Hz Content
BDInfo:         0.7.5.9 (compatible layout created by DVDFab 12.0.5.8)

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:                   00004.MPLS  
Length:                 2:11:37.541 (h:m:s.ms)
Size:                   39,128,672,256 bytes
Total Bitrate:          39.64 Mbps

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
MPEG-4 AVC Video        32995 kbps          1080p / 24 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
DTS-HD High-Res Audio           German          2046 kbps       5.1 / 48 kHz / 2046 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit)
Dolby Digital Audio             German          224 kbps        2.0 / 48 kHz / 224 kbps
DTS-HD High-Res Audio           English         2046 kbps       5.1 / 48 kHz / 2046 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit)
Dolby Digital Audio             German          224 kbps        2.0 / 48 kHz / 224 kbps

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           German          41.505 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           German          0.424 kbps                      
Presentation Graphics           English         0.419 kbps*  

* As previously said, there are only 15 lines with English subtitles, which are all Latin translation. If you select English audio, these subtitles will activate automatically. Regular English dialogues are without English subtitles.
On Warner BD there were these Latin parts burnt in picture - on German release they are not, that's why there are these few English subtitles (see the photos; 1st German UHD/BD, 2nd Warner BD):

[Show spoiler]

Except the opening credits that are partially in German (see above), the title itself is also in German - unlike US Blu-ray:

[Show spoiler]

UHD has no extras. Standard Blu-ray has only two extras (both in German only, without any subtitles):

• The Abbey of Crime: Umberto Eco's Name of the Rose (43 min; SD): same documentary as on Warner's BD;
• Trailer (3:40; HD).

Blu-ray disc is remastered as well - and is region free.

Other picture details:

• German UHD has no Dolby Vision as French release, only HDR10;
• Picture quality could be better - even when using 66 GB disc;
• No forced subtitles - unlike French UHD;
• Unsurprisingly there is big difference from US/Warner disc, which used very old master and was cropped and sometimes distorted to 1.78 aspect ratio;
• As also stated before - the encode is bit worse than French UHD (strangely, when German Constantin is owner of the film), see my comparison:
• https://slow.pics/c/N3VMDF3C
  (1st picture is German UHD, 4th French UHD - so you can click back and forth by left and right arrow)

I used nicwood's screenshots of French UHD, converted them to SDR (so obviously the colors could differ, but encode difference is quite visible). Except that I added comparison to new German BD and old Warner Blu-ray (which used ancient DVD master).

[Show spoiler]

For some more technical details I found German review (there is also comparison to old German BD), which sums that up quite well (google translated):

Because compared to the better encodings in this home cinema world, the 4K disc leaves room for improvement. Does that mean the 4K disc is perfect? ​​Not quite. It's missing that last bit of encoding. But only a few viewers will even notice that. (...)
You can finally retire the indisputably bad old Blu-ray, although the new BD and the UHD Blu-ray still have room for improvement (encoding). Depending on your individual assessment, you may find this inadequate and be annoyed, or you may be happy that, apart from the not entirely homogeneous encoding and a certain amount of noise reduction, you get a very nice picture that finally does without oversharpening, watercolor optics and black crush.

Some final words: I would recommend the German UHD if you don't mind worse encode and can get at some discount price (I got that for 18 € thanks to coupon, so don't mind that much). Also if you don't want wait for potencial other releases (don't know who holds the rights internationally, but US Blu-ray seems long OOP, same as other EU countries), you could be happy with upgrade from old Warner disc.
If you don't mind French forced subtitles (or your player can hide that), you may wait for standard French UHD, which will be cheaper than OOP out digipack.

---

Appendix:
- from the interview with director Jean-Jacques Annaud (google translated); there are other interesting answers (like financing the film, Connery casting, Slater & Vargas scene...), would recommend fans to read the whole article:

Did you participate in this new 4K master?
Not at all! I learned, when I was invited to Bologna, that the successors of my German producer at the time, Bernd Eichinger, had decided to "renovate" The Name of the Rose, in a laboratory in Germany, without telling me about it. But I can't complain: the restoration is magnificent. I rediscovered my film more beautiful than ever, it's the first time it has been restored from the original negative, which belongs to the Neue Constantin company.
(...)
The film rights were blocked for years following a dispute between Neue Constantin and the Italian publisher of the book, pushed by rights holders [the wife of Franco Cristaldi, producer of Fellini's major films and who had co-produced the film]. The German distributors were passionate about the book and about La Guerre du feu, which had been a hit. But thanks to an intervention by Stefano Eco, they have finally been unblocked in France for twenty years. TF1 bought them and Les Acacias will manage the theatrical release. But the film is still blocked in other countries, particularly in Italy and Germany, even though it was a triumph there. I suspect some rights holders want to kill it in favor of the miniseries that was produced in 2019.

[nicwood]

Originally Posted by Jospef

Some final words: I would recommend the German UHD if you don't mind worse encode and can get at some discount price (I got that for 18 € thanks to coupon, so don't mind that much). Also if you don't want wait for potencial other releases (don't know who holds the rights internationally, but US Blu-ray seems long OOP, same as other EU countries), you could be happy with upgrade from old Warner disc.
If you don't mind French forced subtitles (or your player can hide that), you may wait for standard French UHD, which will be cheaper than OOP out digipack.

Phenomenal work, thank you so much! Glad my screenshots were of help.

[McCrutchy]

Odd that the scan I found online showed a lack of HDR on the disc, although the scan results are a simple text document which can be manipulated easily. Surprisingly, the disc and file sizes are very close and the video bitrates are only off by 00001 kbps between the two scans, so, assuming the time was taken to scan the whole disc, I don't understand why or how the readout was altered, unless there's some issue with certain UHD Blu-ray drives detecting HDR.

Apologies for posting misinformation.