Avatar Fire and Ash 3D (2025) in cinemas December 2025

[eselv73]

16 months away! Cannot wait for this one....

[Zivouhr]

I enjoy 24 fps for movies, but can also learn to accept the real-lifelike speed of motions of 48 fps cinema too. But one thing I found really distracting was mixing at times every other shot, 24 fps to 48 fps to 24 fps to 48 fps back to 24 fps and then again to 48 fps and..... Visually, it was distracting as if something was wrong with the projector. If Cameron's goal is to make it more immersive, nothing in human sight goes back and forth like that with the eyes' "frame rate" in real life.

If Cameron loves 48 fps, just play the whole movie in 48 fps and then give viewers the normal choice of 24 fps for those who prefer that. But mixing the two rapidly, not a fan. Keep it one format per presentation IMO. Give us a choice too.

But yes, the strong 3D in Avatar 2 was really nicely done, and did improve over the original in that sense.

Originally Posted by panman40

Already looking forward to a home 3D Blu Ray release without HFR.

A blu ray 3D would be awesome for this potential 2026 blu ray 3D release of Avatar Fire and Ash 3D. Agreed.

[SLYDoggie]

Originally Posted by Zivouhr

I enjoy 24 fps for movies, but can also learn to accept the real-lifelike speed of motions of 48 fps cinema too. But one thing I found really distracting was mixing at times every other shot, 24 fps to 48 fps to 24 fps to 48 fps back to 24 fps and then again to 48 fps and..... Visually, it was distracting as if something was wrong with the projector. If Cameron's goal is to make it more immersive, nothing in human sight goes back and forth like that with the eyes' "frame rate" in real life.

If Cameron loves 48 fps, just play the whole movie in 48 fps and then give viewers the normal choice of 24 fps for those who prefer that. But mixing the two rapidly, not a fan. Keep it one format per presentation IMO. Give us a choice too.

But yes, the strong 3D in Avatar 2 was really nicely done, and did improve over the original in that sense.



A blu ray 3D would be awesome for this potential 2026 blu ray 3D release of Avatar Fire and Ash 3D. Agreed.

In reality the entire movie was shot in 48 FPS. In the parts where the high frame rate wasn't needed, each frame was duplicated. I guess the effect is the same but the frame rate itself really isn't changing.

At least this is what I remember reading when the WOW movie came out.

[Zivouhr]

Originally Posted by SLYDoggie

In reality the entire movie was shot in 48 FPS. In the parts where the high frame rate wasn't needed, each frame was duplicated. I guess the effect is the same but the frame rate itself really isn't changing.

At least this is what I remember reading when the WOW movie came out.

Thanks. I do remember hearing about that, but you're right that the effect is 24 fps. Cameron's reasoning was that he felt 24 fps is more cinematic for when they're talking, while for action, he wanted 48 fps. But he didn't stick to that and started mixing 24 fps in with the action, for when they're talking in the midst of an action scene. I hope he commits to 48 fps all the way this time. No switching it back and forth. And also a 24 fps choice.

My theater, Cinemark, only had 48 fps 3D showtimes, but I'm glad I got to see how he pulled it off. I thought The Hobbit 1 3D HFR 48 fps was much smoother for High frame rate as it was purely 48 fps. No 24 fps mixed in thankfully. Gemini Man HFR 3D too looked good also in 3D theaters 48 fps. Again, no switching to 24 to 48.

[emailking]

Literally only a year and a half away wow, can't wait to see what happens next

[Show spoiler]particular with Kiri

also I'm expecting some strong 3D in this! I think there will be a physical release!

[Telegram Sam]

Originally Posted by Zivouhr

I enjoy 24 fps for movies, but can also learn to accept the real-lifelike speed of motions of 48 fps cinema too. But one thing I found really distracting was mixing at times every other shot, 24 fps to 48 fps to 24 fps to 48 fps back to 24 fps and then again to 48 fps and..... Visually, it was distracting as if something was wrong with the projector. If Cameron's goal is to make it more immersive, nothing in human sight goes back and forth like that with the eyes' "frame rate" in real life.

If Cameron loves 48 fps, just play the whole movie in 48 fps and then give viewers the normal choice of 24 fps for those who prefer that. But mixing the two rapidly, not a fan. Keep it one format per presentation IMO. Give us a choice too.

But yes, the strong 3D in Avatar 2 was really nicely done, and did improve over the original in that sense.

This is the problem. I don’t think Cameron does love HFR. Rather, I think he sees it as something of a necessary evil when it comes to displaying faster motion in 3D.

If he really loved it then it doesn’t make any sense to me that the entire film wasn’t at 48 fps. There can be no logical argument that some shots were kept at 24 fps because they “didn’t need” HFR since, as you say, all those shots achieved was the dreadful distraction of the switch that you (and most of here) experienced. The best explanation – if he truly loves it – is that render costs were lower for the 24 fps CGI, but I don’t think that was the reason.

Originally Posted by Zivouhr

Cameron's reasoning was that he felt 24 fps is more cinematic for when they're talking, while for action, he wanted 48 fps.

Exactly this: He doesn't think 48 fps looks cinematic. And I wholeheartedly agree with him!

Personally, I score Variable Frame Rate at zero out of ten for being a successful experiment (and High Frame Rate itself at about negative one hundred out of ten…). It’s going to be really interesting to see where he goes with Fire and Ash. I assume that he’s shot it at 48 fps again, but will he dial HFR’s use up or down..? (I fully appreciate that there's a significant number of film fans who feel the same way about 3D as I do about HFR!)

Cameron’s come in for a huge amount of flak recently for the destructive work done on the 4K releases of several of his films - apparently with his full approval. What with this and his use of HFR, I hope the later stage of this legendary film-maker’s career doesn’t become most remembered for controversial reasons.

[bradipolpo]

Originally Posted by emailking

Literally only a year and a half away

less than that, 16 months

[Zivouhr]

Originally Posted by Telegram Sam

This is the problem. I don’t think Cameron does love HFR. Rather, I think he sees it as something of a necessary evil when it comes to displaying faster motion in 3D.

If he really loved it then it doesn’t make any sense to me that the entire film wasn’t at 48 fps. There can be no logical argument that some shots were kept at 24 fps because they “didn’t need” HFR since, as you say, all those shots achieved was the dreadful distraction of the switch that you (and most of here) experienced. The best explanation – if he truly loves it – is that render costs were lower for the 24 fps CGI, but I don’t think that was the reason.



Exactly this: He doesn't think 48 fps looks cinematic. And I wholeheartedly agree with him!

Personally, I score Variable Frame Rate at zero out of ten for being a successful experiment (and High Frame Rate itself at about negative one hundred out of ten…). It’s going to be really interesting to see where he goes with Fire and Ash. I assume that he’s shot it at 48 fps again, but will he dial HFR’s use up or down..? (I fully appreciate that there's a significant number of film fans who feel the same way about 3D as I do about HFR!)

Cameron’s come in for a huge amount of flak recently for the destructive work done on the 4K releases of several of his films - apparently with his full approval. What with this and his use of HFR, I hope the later stage of this legendary film-maker’s career doesn’t become most remembered for controversial reasons.

Thanks Sam. Interesting points.
If I have a choice, I feel better about it when going to the theater, although I did see Hobbit 1 3D and Gemini Man 3D in 48 fps and thought those fared better than switching back and forth as in the amazing, mostly strong 3D of Avatar 2.

We'll see if he makes the same choices again with Ash and Fire part 3 Avatar.

I'm really happy about what Avatar helped inspire, which was a 10+ year home blu ray 3D run that we may have not gotten otherwise had it not been for Avatar 1 3D in theaters. 3DTVs and Blu Ray 3D were pretty much born to mainstream in 2010 thanks to Avatar 3D 1's massive success. What an awesome time to be a 3D fan all those years and thankfully still now as prices drop on blu ray 3D movies still available to purchase that may have not been of interest at launch on 3D disc.

I was watching TNT, which was playing Godzilla vs Kong on TV, and they had it sped up to what looked like slightly fast forward to smooth out the motions, so instead of heavy weight to Godzilla and Kong, it seemed like they shrunk down to human size and were fighting quickly in a Neon City playground, totally taking away any sense of heavy weight. Whoever is making that decision at TNT channel to speed up the "interpolation" or what it may be called, is affecting the sense of timing of the motions negatively. Not good, so that's why it's really important to have these films on disc in 24 fps as they may have been originally presented. Compared to a streaming site digital only where they can mess with it for a "smoother" look.

I was hoping for some information on Avatar 2's Blu ray 3D on who may have pushed for the blu ray 3D release in 2023, years after 3DTVs stopped being manufactured in 2017. A great move and I hope it happens again for Avatar 3 3D on blu ray 3D by 2026.

[Just_Discovered_3D]

To date, I have only noticed motion strobing in two theatrical 3D films: The Meg 2, and James Cameron's Alita: Battle Angel.

I get the impression that Cameron chafes at filming with the motion limitations of 24 FPS, but he also knows that going beyond those limits without HFR looks unpleasant (and that resorting to jump cuts hurts 3D). Especially with his fondness for CGI. There's a big CGI setpiece of the TMNT running and climbing at the end of TMNT2 and it, like much of that film, does more motion than 24 FPS can handle. That specific scene, which looks like a video game, shows why video games push for higher frame rates than 24.

Not to take away too much from TMNT2 as it's one of the strongest mainstream "Bronze Age" 3D films I've seen at home.


Cameron is credited with the Bronze Age revival, but it's the Wonder Woman 1984 monkey's paw effect as he created the push for the "you don't even notice it's in 3D!" levels of milder 3D with his Titanic conversion. I still don't quite understand how he went from glorious 3D in the 1990s to much more mild 3D by 2009.


Edit: Could TNT be speeding up films to fit in more commercials?

[Zivouhr]

Originally Posted by Just_Discovered_3D

To date, I have only noticed motion strobing in two theatrical 3D films: The Meg 2, and James Cameron's Alita: Battle Angel.

I get the impression that Cameron chafes at filming with the motion limitations of 24 FPS, but he also knows that going beyond those limits without HFR looks unpleasant (and that resorting to jump cuts hurts 3D). Especially with his fondness for CGI. There's a big CGI setpiece of the TMNT running and climbing at the end of TMNT2 and it, like much of that film, does more motion than 24 FPS can handle. That specific scene, which looks like a video game, shows why video games push for higher frame rates than 24.

Not to take away too much from TMNT2 as it's one of the strongest mainstream "Bronze Age" 3D films I've seen at home.


Cameron is credited with the Bronze Age revival, but it's the Wonder Woman 1984 monkey's paw effect as he created the push for the "you don't even notice it's in 3D!" levels of milder 3D with his Titanic conversion. I still don't quite understand how he went from glorious 3D in the 1990s to much more mild 3D by 2009.


Edit: Could TNT be speeding up films to fit in more commercials?

Titanic does have some milder 3D shots when I watched it a 2nd time. There are some stronger 3D shots during the action thankfully, but it could've been pushed more, yes for a conversion. Jurassic Park 3D is overall a strong 3D conversion, but drops to medium layering in the final act for some reason (Maybe they ran out of time/budget and had to speed things up in the last days).

TNT, I think that faster motion is for all their movies now. I don't own that channel, but was watching it elsewhere and was disappointed with that effect for a giant monster movie, which is ideal in slower movements/motions. I think they have to keep the original run time intact, but then how do they make it seem to go faster? I don't know enough about the technology yet. If they did it to fit in more commercials, that wouldn't surprise me.

At home, rewatching Avatar 1 and 2, I have no issues with 24 fps in 3D. Cameron believes 3D needs to be in 48 fps but it's the way the images and editing is presented that I believe has a bigger impact. A film can have thousands of different shots like an MTV rapid-fire shots video in 48 fps, and the frame rate wouldn't make much of a difference if each shot lasts less than 1/2 second in 3D with varying degrees of 3D strength to jar the viewer's eyes.

[BLMN]

The 48fps HFR testing files (both in 2D and 3D) were sent to theaters last night along with the KDM's to unlock it in preparation for the upcoming release of Fire and Ash this December. It is a 25 second clip from Avatar: The Way of Water.

[Zivouhr]

Originally Posted by BLMN

The 48fps HFR testing files (both in 2D and 3D) were sent to theaters last night along with the KDM's to unlock it in preparation for the upcoming release of Fire and Ash this December. It is a 25 second clip from Avatar: The Way of Water.

Thanks. That's interesting to hear and good that he seems more sure Avatar 3 will release by December 2025 without anymore delays.


-------------------------
Since he insists on 48 frames per second as "better" in movie theaters, I wish Cameron would commit to pure 48 frames per second with Avatar 3 3D instead of going back and forth with 24 fps to 48 to 24 as he did in Avatar 2, which made it seem like he couldn't make up his mind, and almost like someone in the projection booth was messing with the frame rate, faster, slower, faster, slow, fast, slow. It was jarring and took me out of the immersion of the film, thinking about frame rates instead.

His logic is that 24 frames per second is more cinematic for dialog scenes or low action scenes, but then he cranks it up to 48 fps for action. But that wasn't always consistent in Avatar 2. It seemed half-hazardly done.

Watching Avatar 1 and 2 at home on blu ray 3D, a much more consistent experience at 24 fps and still looks great.

[BLMN]

I ran the test the other day, it is the exact same testing file they sent in 2022 for way of water. it is a cgi rock in HFR with a green circle moving like a pendulum from left to right then back again (a voice says left/right) then you can check if the HFR is synchronized with audio and video and with the 3D box. it is in both 2k and 4k and 2D HFR and 3D HFR. a fun fact for some here, in order for HFR 3D up to 60 fps to work with the realD box we have to change the 3D pull down from 6:2 to 4:2.

[BluBonnet]

First look at Neytiri

[emailking]

Fierce!

[BLMN]

So we received today content for Fantastic 4 and while there is no trailer listed for Avatar but looking at the file extension there is an embedded trailer along with the feature both in 2D and 3D, i think this is it folks we will see the teaser for Fire and Ash next week.

Fantastic42025_FTR-2D-wTLR_S_EN-EN-CCAP_US-13_71-HI-VI_4K_MRV_20250713_DLX_SMPTE_VF
Fantastic42025_FTR-3D-wTLR_S_EN-EN-CCAP_US-13_71-HI-VI_2K_MRV_20250713_DLX_SMPTE-3D_VF

[Interdimensional]

"The strength of the ancestors is here"

Visuals look as dynamic as always and the sound design is really beautiful. Seems to be a close continuation from the previous film, with the children close in age to how they looked in Way of Water. Can't wait to see it in 3D with Fantastic 4.

I was really starting to think it'd get pushed back again.

[Just_Discovered_3D]

Originally Posted by Interdimensional

"The strength of the ancestors is here"

Visuals look as dynamic as always and the sound design is really beautiful. Seems to be a close continuation from the previous film, with the children close in age to how they looked in Way of Water. Can't wait to see it in 3D with Fantastic 4.

I was really starting to think it'd get pushed back again.

Hopefully you'll get to see it's 3D trailer before Fantastic 4, I'm still surprised that I didn't get any trailer, even flat, for F4 before Superman 3D.

I'm also hyped for the fake-3D commercials to air on TV. The ones for Avatar 2 were dismissed as gimmicks by the cultured 3D fans here, and fairly so, what has me hyped is remembering how their strong fake 3D got "normies" excited about 3D. It's also fun that the trailers are often, maybe even most often, going to be seen in HFR.

[Fang Zei]

Originally Posted by Interdimensional

I was really starting to think it'd get pushed back again.

Zero chance that was going to happen.

If you’re counting from before the pandemic, this has already been pushed back by two entire years. Cameron basically got an extra year just for this one thanks to the strikes.

I’m sure he’ll be working on it up until the last possible moment anyway, though.

Originally Posted by Just_Discovered_3D

It's also fun that the trailers are often, maybe even most often, going to be seen in HFR.

They will?!

Is throwing an hfr 3D trailer in front of a regular 3D showing interspersed with 2D and regular 3D trailers that straightforward?

Were any of the trailers for Way of Water shown in hfr anywhere?

I guess the higher refresh rate laser projectors that are making their way into more and more standard auditoriums would make it easier in theory, and Imax and Dolby use dual-projector setups anyway.

[Just_Discovered_3D]

Originally Posted by Fang Zei

Zero chance that was going to happen.

If you’re counting from before the pandemic, this has already been pushed back by two entire years. Cameron basically got an extra year just for this one thanks to the strikes.

I’m sure he’ll be working on it up until the last possible moment anyway, though.



They will?!

Is throwing an hfr 3D trailer in front of a regular 3D showing interspersed with 2D and regular 3D trailers that straightforward?

Were any of the trailers for Way of Water shown in hfr anywhere?

I guess the higher refresh rate laser projectors that are making their way into more and more standard auditoriums would make it easier in theory, and Imax and Dolby use dual-projector setups anyway.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough with what I meant. For Avatar 2, the fake-3D trailers shown on 2D TV were run as commercials during sports, and those are often watched with high framerate interpolation enabled on the TV.