Doctor Who: Season 2 (Series 15)

[darrellmaclaine]

Originally Posted by CouncilSpectre

The BBC should never have got themselves into a position of the show being heavily dependent on external funding. A big budget is not the be-all-and-end-all.

The part of this that people overlook too is that the Disney deal effectively voids the international sales because this Disney money isn't the magical, no-catch cash injection people talk of it as, it's a flat advance buyout on the overseas broadcast deals that are all now severed and which used to bring in a reasonable, significant yield on their own. It's taken real return on the series, speculated it on increased production values which haven't made any difference at all to audience engagement, and created an irreversible mistake that's killed a show that I think still had a chance in 2022.

The biggest killer though has been the arrogance in the editorial/creative side. A show on the bones of its arse, and instead of going into 'how do we get the audience back?' emergency recovery mode, it fell in the 'how do we annoy all the right people?' trap that's murdering franchises left, right and centre. An obsession with defeating random people you don't like on the internet - over trying to bring in and enchant as many people as possible - never, ever works. That's why the audience, who did tentatively come back in 2023, switched off. People don't like being alienated and purity-tested, regardless of what their politics or beliefs are. You've got a big show, you are going to have to meet halfway a lot of audience demographics you might not like if you met them personally. Tough, it's their money too, and your job.

[MrChristoph]

Originally Posted by darrellmaclaine

i think the key metric is that more than half (over 5m viewers) of the people that watched wallace & gromit straight afterwards actively avoided watching doctor who beforehand, whereas the last time they shared a schedule in 2008 there was something close to parity

The two situations aren't exactly equal. In 2008 it had only been a few years since the last Wallace & Gromit film, and Vengeance Most Fowl had the benefit of a limited theatrical release and the additional publicity that entails. I don't think it's colossally surprising surprising that twice as many people would want to watch the first new W&G in 16 years than the 19th near-consecutive Doctor Who festive episode.

Originally Posted by darrellmaclaine

it fell in the 'how do we annoy all the right people?' trap that's murdering franchises left, right and centre.

What specific creative choices are you talking about?

[darrellmaclaine]

Originally Posted by MrChristoph

The two situations aren't exactly equal. In 2008 it had only been a few years since the last Wallace & Gromit film, and Vengeance Most Fowl had the benefit of a limited theatrical release and the additional publicity that entails. I don't think it's colossally surprising surprising that twice as many people would want to watch the first new W&G in 16 years than the 19th near-consecutive Doctor Who festive episode.

I'm genuinely not sure what point you're trying to make here. W&G was equally popular in 2008 and 2024, DW wasn't.

Originally Posted by MrChristoph

What specific creative choices are you talking about?

Any and all boring, disingenuous goading designed to elicit either a cheer of agreement or a boo of disapproval. It's childish and it turns most emotionally intelligent people off regardless of their position on anything. "It's good that x or y hates it" - no, it isn't good that anyone hates it. Shops don't draw up lists of types of customers they do and don't want, they just work out how to get as much money as possible in the till.

[SoundableObject]

Originally Posted by darrellmaclaine

I'm genuinely not sure what point you're trying to make here. W&G was equally popular in 2008 and 2024, DW wasn't.

Gavin and Stacey too. The exceptions that prove the rule, me thinks. Doctor Who is in line with many other shows. Not event TV but not bad by any means. Certainly not ratings to worry about.

The latest Xmas special was ranked 7th for the week. 7 Christmas Specials did better. 6 did equal or worse. Pretty much slap bang average for a Christmas Special.

[MrChristoph]

Originally Posted by darrellmaclaine

I'm genuinely not sure what point you're trying to make here. W&G was equally popular in 2008 and 2024, DW wasn't.

1. Wallace & Gromit had early social media reactions and rave reviews from the festival screenings and limited release, plus coverage of events like like the AFI Q&A.
2. Something that only comes around every 10-15 years is naturally going to feel more special than something that comes every Christmas (give or take). A new Doctor Who is tradition, a new Wallace & Gromit is an event. As was Gavin and Stacey, I gather, as that resolved a 5-year cliffhanger.

Originally Posted by darrellmaclaine

Any and all boring, disingenuous goading designed to elicit either a cheer of agreement or a boo of disapproval.

But, in terms of examples, what are you actually talking about?
Who are they 'intentionally' trying to upset? How does this show itself in the finished episodes?