The Official Pioneer Elite 21/23/25/27 Receivers Thread

[brokenthumb]

Originally Posted by forsberg21

You are right, I had the UPA-2 in mind vs the XPA-3.......my mistake! Plus I think the XPA-5 is out of stock until the 10th. If they came out with a UPA-3, I would probably jump on it....

The UPA-7 look like a good deal to power all 7 channels at $700. That's $100 a channel, 125 watts RMS.

I wish I had pre-outs already.

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by brokenthumb

The UPA-7 look like a good deal to power all 7 channels at $700. That's $100 a channel, 125 watts RMS.

I wish I had pre-outs already.

I saw that as well, and now that I think of it, it really would be better to just get the UPA-7 or the XPA-3 because you figure if they had a UPA-3 it would come in at around $400 with 125 watts, so for another $200 you could get the XPA-3 and have twice the power at 250 watts.

[brokenthumb]

Originally Posted by forsberg21

I saw that as well, and now that I think of it, it really would be better to just get the UPA-7 or the XPA-3 because you figure if they had a UPA-3 it would come in at around $400 with 125 watts, so for another $200 you could get the XPA-3 and have twice the power at 250 watts.

Would the UPA-7 provide any benefit for you Forsberg? I thought your Pioneer Elite SC-05 was 140 watts per channel and the UPA-7 would be 125 watts. Is there more to it than just wattage?

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by brokenthumb

Would the UPA-7 provide any benefit for you Forsberg? I thought your Pioneer Elite SC-05 was 140 watts per channel and the UPA-7 would be 125 watts. Is there more to it than just wattage?

The amp's add'l wattage allows for cleaner power and a clearer sound from what I heard. The reason to get the amp would be to improve my SQ. Usually, in order to do that, you need to increase the power. So, an extra 125 watts to each channel would almost double what it is getting now. That should provide a noticeable result, where I should hear better detail from my speakers immediately.

[brokenthumb]

Originally Posted by forsberg21

The amp's add'l wattage allows for cleaner power and a clearer sound from what I heard. The reason to get the amp would be to improve my SQ. Usually, in order to do that, you need to increase the power. So, an extra 125 watts to each channel would almost double what it is getting now. That should provide a noticeable result, where I should hear better detail from my speakers immediately.

Oh, I didn't know it adds to the AVR's watts. So you would be getting 140 + 125 for 265 total watts! I always thought the Pioneer would only be used for processing when an amp is used.

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by brokenthumb

Oh, I didn't know it adds to the AVR's watts. So you would be getting 140 + 125 for 265 total watts! I always thought the Pioneer would only be used for processing when an amp is used.

Well, I say that because alot of guys get these amps and talk about the added clarity and better sound, so I assume it is from the "add'l" power. However, maybe you have a point, and the "add'l" power is the power rating from the amp alone......I'll PM crazy, he can tell us!

EDIT: correction brokenthumb, you only get the power from that amp and you let the receiver do the processing as you thought. The reason, according to crazy, that you get the better quality sound is that the amp is doing the one dedicated job it is suppose to do, and that is power your speakers, while the receiver would be doing a few different jobs, thus reducing its effectiveness to provide the same sound an external amp can do.

[Steve]

You won't get any "additional" power. When I say that, I mean you don't add the power from the amp to the power from your receiver. If your receiver is pushing 100 watts/channel, and the receiver pushes 200 watts/channel, you won't be getting 300 watts/channel. You'll be getting the 200 watts/channel from the amp. When you connect an amp to your AVR, you're using the AVR's pre-outs, and these are unamplified connections. The AVR will only send the signals to the amp and the amp does all the amplification itself. You're taking the amp in the receiver out of the loop. You may get "cleaner" power. In the case of the ICE amps, for example, this may not necessarily be true, but the separate amp may still sound different due to being a different type of amp. An amp is particularly beneficial in the case of lower powered receivers that may only push 90-100 watts/channel. We know that often in real life these amps only end up pushing 50 or 60 amps with all channels driven. That's not to say an amp is not beneficial with higher-end receivers, but the benefits may not be as substantial.

[brokenthumb]

Okay, so it would make more sense to go with the XPA-3 or 5 over the UPA-7 if you already have a good receiver.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by brokenthumb

Okay, so it would make more sense to go with the XPA-3 or 5 over the UPA-7 if you already have a good receiver.

I guess it depends on your philosophy on HT. If I was going to go with an amp, personally I would want it to drive all of my speakers so they all get the same amount of power and all have the same type of sound. Others will say the front stage is the most important and would be perfectly happy with just a three channel amp for those three speakers, and then drive their surrounds with the receiver. It's hard to tell you what is "best". There's nothing "wrong" with either approach.

[Irrob]

Originally Posted by brokenthumb

What are the main differences in the Elite VSX-23TXH and the Elite VSX-21TXH. Is it only more HDMI connections and such? Is the performance identical?

The Elite 21:
Has 4 HDMI inputs. The 23 has 5 inputs.
Has 1 HDMI output. The 23 has 2 outputs (neat feature).
Has 1 digital output. The 23 has 2 outputs.
No multichannel Precision Quartz Lock System (bell/whistle for synchronizing audio)

That's about it

[malibuite]

Originally Posted by malibuite

Need a little help choosing between these two receivers;
Pioneer Elite VSX-23TXH vs Denon AVR-2310CI

I currently own a Marantz SR7400, PS3, Samsung 46" LCD 1080p 120hz and B&W Speakers:
DM604 S3 - Front
DM602 S3 - Rear
LCR600 S3 - Center
Velodyne DLS 10 - Sub

Thank you for any input, advice, suggestions.

Thanks for the input...I was leaning towards the Pioneer all along....too bad I can not find any of the SC-05's anywhere at the $700-800 range. Has anyone bought from 6Ave.com? If so any good experiences? I believe from what I have read even though they are an authorized retailer Pioneer ELite will not warranty anything bought from an online dealer. Read somewhere that BestBuy will price match with them? Does anyone have any input on this?

[Irrob]

Many members have purchased from 6Ave with no problems whatsoever. They are an authorized dealer. Yes you're right, Pioneer is picky about online purchasing of the Elite line. This is a gray area for me. From Pioneer:

Unauthorized Internet Dealers

Pioneer does NOT offer a manufacturer's limited warranty for products purchased from anyone who is not an authorized dealer and it does NOT offer rebates or other special opportunities for products purchased from anyone who is not an authorized dealer. Pioneer is not able to identify all persons and companies who claim to be authorized Pioneer dealers. Pioneer has been able to identify the following persons and companies who are NOT authorized Pioneer dealers:

1. Valley TV (California)
2. New World Electronics (California)

eBay Sellers
Pioneer does NOT authorize any of its dealers to sell new products on eBay. Pioneer's agreements with its dealers prohibit sales on eBay. Accordingly, Pioneer does not offer its limited manufacturer's warranty or rebates for products purchased from any dealers on eBay.

Here is a link to Authorized interent dealers:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...n+the+Internet

Like I said, this is a gray area, since not even the Pioneer store offers the Elite receivers for sale online. As for BB doing in store price matching with online retailers, i'm not sure they will, but I dont have any experience with that. Maybe someone else will chime in.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Irrob

Like I said, this is a gray area, since not even the Pioneer store offers the Elite receivers for sale online. As for BB doing in store price matching with online retailers, i'm not sure they will, but I dont have any experience with that. Maybe someone else will chime in.

I've heard of cases where they did, and cases where they wouldn't. I guess it's just luck of the draw, depending mostly on the salesman you're dealing with.

[edubb5]

Can someone please tell me what Duel Channel is in the Audio Perimeter? I know you can use 1 or 2! Or Both... But what does it do??? Trying to get the best sound out of this receiver with my Pioneer Elite 23fd Blu Ray Player! I have turned Off DRC and was just wondering what Duel channel feature was!

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by edubb5

Can someone please tell me what Duel Channel is in the Audio Perimeter? I know you can use 1 or 2! Or Both... But what does it do???

The manual states that with an encoded dual mono Dolby Digital track, it can dictate how it can be played. It is very rarely used, but when it is necessary because of a dual mono encoded soundtrack, it will send two languages to two seperate channels. Again, the audio must be a dual mono encoded Dolby Digital soundtrack for this to work. To be honest, I don't even know where one could find such a soundtrack.

[edubb5]

Originally Posted by forsberg21

The manual states that with an encoded dual mono Dolby Digital track, it can dictate how it can be played. It is very rarely used, but when it is necessary because of a dual mono encoded soundtrack, it will send two languages to two seperate channels. Again, the audio must be a dual mono encoded Dolby Digital soundtrack for this to work. To be honest, I don't even know where one could find such a soundtrack.

OK, Thanks! So do you just use Chan 1? That is what I just left it on. And I see you have a buttkicker. I am thinking about running 2 subs with my buttkicker but is having a hard time on how I could hook these up! I guess I need 2 Y split. to split up the sound

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by edubb5

OK, Thanks! So do you just use Chan 1? That is what I just left it on. And I see you have a buttkicker. I am thinking about running 2 subs with my buttkicker but is having a hard time on how I could hook these up! I guess I need 2 Y split. to split up the sound

Yep, I just use Channel 1. As far as the buttkicker, yes, I have 2 Y-splitters coming from the back of my receiver. I split one of the female ends of the Y-splitter that is hooked into the sub-out to another Y-splitter, giving me 3 leads. 2 go to each sub and the 3rd goes to the buttkicker amp.

[edubb5]

Originally Posted by forsberg21

Yep, I just use Channel 1. As far as the buttkicker, yes, I have 2 Y-splitters coming from the back of my receiver. I split one of the female ends of the Y-splitter that is hooked into the sub-out to another Y-splitter, giving me 3 leads. 2 go to each sub and the 3rd goes to the buttkicker amp.

Great! My other quest is- I have a Velodyne DPS12 and I will be getting the Sub 12 by Klipsch! I would want to match up my subbs but I get such a good deal @ work on that sub 12. Do you think it will sound OK with two diff brands of sub

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by edubb5

Great! My other quest is- I have a Velodyne DPS12 and I will be getting the Sub 12 by Klipsch! I would want to match up my subbs but I get such a good deal @ work on that sub 12. Do you think it will sound OK with two diff brands of sub

Do you have an SPL meter? I would recommend one, even if you had only 1 sub or a matching set of 2 subs. I have 2 different quality and size subs that I have managed to play well together. I basically have my subs set up to have the smaller and much less powerful PSW10 to handle the upper end of the lower frequencies, while I let me SVS PC12 sub kick out all of the serious low end that some scenes really demand. Believe me, the PC12 can handle itself wonderfully and it has a very consistent frequency range. The real reason I have 2 subs is because of some bass voids I had in the room. It eliminated alot of them, and it also provided further support in providing even bass response too. I use my SPL meter all the time, and especially with 2 different subs, as they interact with the room differently and need to be "dialed-in" so that one doesn't overpower the other or so that the other doesn't underperform to the point that any localization would become noticeable. I even built sub-risers to deal with the vertical modes in the room and to decouple the subs from my hard ceramic floor. All in all, the 2 subs work very well together. I say get an SPL meter if you are going the route you mentioned. Here is the link for one from RadioShack or "The Shack". The digitial one is easier to read and they run $49.99.

Here is Big Daddy's sticky on how to use an SPL meter.....

[edubb5]

Originally Posted by forsberg21

Do you have an SPL meter? I would recommend one, even if you had only 1 sub or a matching set of 2 subs. I have 2 different quality and size subs that I have managed to play well together. I basically have my subs set up to have the smaller and much less powerful PSW10 to handle the upper end of the lower frequencies, while I let me SVS PC12 sub kick out all of the serious low end that some scenes really demand. Believe me, the PC12 can handle itself wonderfully and it has a very consistent frequency range. The real reason I have 2 subs is because of some bass voids I had in the room. It eliminated alot of them, and it also provided further support in providing even bass response too. I use my SPL meter all the time, and especially with 2 different subs, as they interact with the room differently and need to be "dialed-in" so that one doesn't overpower the other or so that the other doesn't underperform to the point that any localization would become noticeable. I even built sub-risers to deal with the vertical modes in the room and to decouple the subs from my hard ceramic floor. All in all, the 2 subs work very well together. I say get an SPL meter if you are going the route you mentioned. Here is the link for one from RadioShack or "The Shack". The digitial one is easier to read and they run $49.99.

Here is Big Daddy's sticky on how to use an SPL meter.....

Yea, for me it is go this way or sale my Boston's and get deftech speakers! But I like the sound out of my bostons. Just want more of it to sound like those deftechs. And I thought with two subs! I can get that boom along with the clarity