8K discussion thread

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Bernardo A.

Geoff, if you had to choose between an 8K copy of an IMAX Nolan film, H.266 compressed, 12-bit and 4:2:0, or a 4K theatrical DCP, which one would you choose?

The 8K, provided it wasn't compressed by a fookin monkey

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I'd happily pay £100 for a pristine 8K copy of whatever film, but four fookin grand for the player? **** right off with that shit. Only the stupidly rich and/or terminally gullible (the two usually go hand in hand) need apply.

Very well put.
In my case I wouldn't pay as much as £100 for a movie, though. I already restrict my 4K disc buying because of a combination of:
1. The unnecessarily high prices of the 4K Blu-rays here, combined with
2. The time available to watch them.

I still have blu-rays and DVDs that I bought long ago, haven't got around to watching them. It doesn't make sense to buy more.

[Geoff D]

I have paid that much for a movie before ($140 on the Bourne Identity DVHS, and that's in 2005 dollarydoos) and would do so again if it meant I was getting the best of the best of the best. But I'm just as happy grabbing stuff for £10 each in multi buy offers

[SCS_Shoug]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I have paid that much for a movie before ($140 on the Bourne Identity DVHS, and that's in 2005 dollarydoos) and would do so again if it meant I was getting the best of the best of the best. But I'm just as happy grabbing stuff for £10 each in multi buy offers

Yeah that's also the thing. For those D-Theater tapes at the time: you pretty much got what you paid for. It was either that, a 480i DVD, a sub 480i VHS, or magically smuggling a print into your home to play in a personal theater, and excluding that mythical last option the 1080i was a HUGE jump over the DVD. But when 4K already reaches the "diminishing returns" point for most people watching most content on most screens, it'd be a lot harder to sell it today than the already-hard-to-sell D-Theater imo.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by SCS_Shoug

Yeah that's also the thing. For those D-Theater tapes at the time: you pretty much got what you paid for. It was either that, a 480i DVD, a sub 480i VHS, or magically smuggling a print into your home to play in a personal theater, and excluding that mythical last option the 1080i was a HUGE jump over the DVD. But when 4K already reaches the "diminishing returns" point for most people watching most content on most screens, it'd be a lot harder to sell it today than the already-hard-to-sell D-Theater imo.

d-theatre had the issue of barely any support and moving back to bulky tapes. Even though D-theater did not go anywhere HD and UHD did follow SD.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

Agree. The crybabies already crying about Kaleidescape price for starting at $4K. Imagine 8K exclusivity?

For perspective, my parents paid $1000 for our first VHS player (RCA) around 1980 which is close to $4K today. VHS movies were closer to $80 if you could buy the movie. My guess is 8K movies on K-scape would be far less in cost to purchase.

My issue would be storage as doesn't the strat allow for something like 10 movies or to that effect, but you can store whatever on their cloud?

[sapiendut]

I’ve purchased around 100 titles. I only leave the movies I use for demo on the Strato V the rest are in their cloud.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

For perspective, my parents paid $1000 for our first VHS player (RCA) around 1980 which is close to $4K today. VHS movies were closer to $80 if you could buy the movie. My guess is 8K movies on K-scape would be far less in cost to purchase.

My issue would be storage as doesn't the strat allow for something like 10 movies or to that effect, but you can store whatever on their cloud?

the stratos v has 1TB of storage so around 10 films in 4k. But there are other solutions that can hold a lot more. And yes a title once purchased can be re-downloaded so you can watch, delete and re-download later before you want to watch that film again .

[mkozlows]

Originally Posted by mkozlows

I think even more than the general lack of 8K, it's noteworthy that it's 4K on gigantic TVs with solid five-figure prices. If 8K were going to be successful, by now TVs like this would be 8K as a matter of course -- nobody would even consider making a $25-30K 4K TV, because everyone with that kind of money would be salivating for the latest and greatest. But instead, everyone views 8K as a gimmick, and even at megabuck prices, don't care about it. It's probably true that peak 8K was two years ago, and it's just downhill from here.

I wrote the above in 2022, which was the last year in which Sony introduced an 8K TV. This year, they discontinued that model. They officially have no 8K TVs left in their lineup, and no plans to introduce another.

(But the real way you know that 8K is dead is that the "8K is totally coming any day now" brigade has silently melted away, and nobody's even posted any nonsensical pro-8K argumentation in this thread for a year.)

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by mkozlows

I wrote the above in 2022, which was the last year in which Sony introduced an 8K TV. This year, they discontinued that model. They officially have no 8K TVs left in their lineup, and no plans to introduce another.

(But the real way you know that 8K is dead is that the "8K is totally coming any day now" brigade has silently melted away, and nobody's even posted any nonsensical pro-8K argumentation in this thread for a year.)

They are not entirely gone; they just post about it in other threads:

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Videophiles would like to see the company come out with an 8K Kaleidescape Movie Player sometime in 2026-2028 timeframe.

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

In the year 2026-2028 time period we should see a new 8K format launched, either an 8K optical disc format or one of the streaming providers might offer 8K streaming with lossless audio.

There is a possibility that Sony and Panasonic in the year 2026-2028 might launch a $1,000+ first generation 8K Blu-ray player...

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

I am curious to see what happens in 2026-2028 since a lot of A/V receivers and new model 8K TV's are being made with 8K HDMI inputs. The 8K HDMI on all the new A/V receivers are being placed there for a reason. A lot of new 8K TVs are planned in 2026+ also.

You will never convince this guy that 8K everything is not just around the corner. He posts this silliness far and wide across this website.

[Geoff D]

Yep, 8K is dead as a dodo. Might start to see some more traction in the years to come as more content comes online, maybe even only for gaming, but I think 4K is "good enough" for 99.999% of people (heck, SD is good enough for most) which is why 8K has been such a hard sell.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yep, 8K is dead as a dodo. Might start to see some more traction in the years to come as more content comes online, maybe even only for gaming, but I think 4K is "good enough" for 99.999% of people (heck, SD is good enough for most) which is why 8K has been such a hard sell.

As for gaming, that same flatpanelhd article said:

"PS5 Pro not driving interest in 8K"

"Sony's latest game console has not been enough to spark consumer interest in 8K for the living room."

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1744127101

I am not aware of any movie studio prepping 8K releases for the home video market and without that content there's just no compelling reason for anyone to want an 8K TV. Broadcast and cable TV haven't even embraced 4K yet.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Vilya

As for gaming, that same flatpanelhd article said:

"PS5 Pro not driving interest in 8K"

"Sony's latest game console has not been enough to spark consumer interest in 8K for the living room."

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1744127101

I am not aware of any movie studio prepping 8K releases for the home video market and without that content there's just no compelling reason for anyone to want an 8K TV. Broadcast and cable TV haven't even embraced 4K yet.

Indeed, I read it, but if there's one place where 8K could gain ground in the years to come it's gaming, look at all the shit they've put into the HDMI and TV spec in the last few years just to keep gamers on-side. But I have no illusions that it's anything more than vapourware at this point, and people dribbling on about 8K Blu-ray were always going to end up verr disappointed!

[eXtofer]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Broadcast and cable TV haven't even embraced 4K yet.

Shoot they’ve barely even embraced 1080p.

[eXtofer]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Indeed, I read it, but if there's one place where 8K could gain ground in the years to come it's gaming, look at all the shit they've put into the HDMI and TV spec in the last few years just to keep gamers on-side. But I have no illusions that it's anything more than vapourware at this point, and people dribbling on about 8K Blu-ray were always going to end up verr disappointed!

I’m a gamer and I think there’s a disconnect between the big companies and consumers when it comes to what we want. 4K in the console market is still kind of a novelty because often developers will allow you to choose lower frame rates with 4k or higher frame rates with sub-4k. Most of us will opt for the higher frame rates. It’s very rare that you get a stable game to run on console at 4k and hold 60fps.

Nintendo, of all companies, seems to finally get it with their announcement that Switch 2 will allow 120fps at 1080p. We’re less about the most beautiful presentation and more about how the game runs.

[Deciazulado]

Thanks to one of Dorian's posts,

Originally Posted by dorian

Because the differences, while present, aren't as great as some make out.

Do people really notice these differences in motion when seated at typical viewing distances? Perhaps, but I wish they didn't feel like they're missing out or being robbed of meaningful detail.

This isn't to say I'm opposed to higher resolution scans at ingest. That can only be a good thing.

Tho it's 4K scans going from film into UHD (4K to UHD, 4K>2K>4K to UHD, and 4K>3K>4K to UHD), vs a 1:1 Lasergraphics 8K scan* of a target,
the black vertical bar I made on the right is 540px tall to be a viewing distance ruler.

Measure the bar's height in inches (or mm) on your computer screen at 100% size and multiply that measurement by:

32 and sit at that distance from the computer screen to see from equivalent to the last row at the back of a theater (~ = 4PH sitting distance for regular movies) (on a good theater; some make the last row even a farther 5PH https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/images/smilies/tsk.gif)

16 and sit at that distance from the computer screen to see from equivalent to the middle in a theater (~ = 2PH sitting distance for regular movies)

8 and sit at that distance from the computer screen to see from the mid point between the front row and back row of proper true IMAX 70mm theater (~ = 1PH sitting distance for IMAX 70mm movies)






__________________________________________________ __________________________

Tables for 2PH (middle of theater) and 4PH (back of theater) sitting distance for TV screens at home:.

Note: Since Scope movies are presented letterboxed to 75% on 16:9 BD and UHD to see them proper you should sit 3/4th (75%) closer to the screen.


Middle of theater/2PH is approximately:
(choose your 16:9 screen diagonal size and measuring unit)

120”
US:

[Show spoiler]
10 feet viewing distance from a 16:9 120” diagonal screen (58.2” high) for Academy to Widescreen movies and
7.5 feet (75% ^) for Scope/70mm movies and IMAX.)

metric:

[Show spoiler]
3m viewing distance from a 16:9 120” diagonal screen (58.2” high) for Academy to Widescreen movies and
2.25m (75% ^) for Scope/70mm movies (and IMAX.)

100”
US:

[Show spoiler]
8 feet viewing distance from a 16:9 100” diagonal screen (48.5” high) for Academy to Widescreen movies and
6 feet (75% ^) for Scope/70mm movies (and IMAX.)

metric:

[Show spoiler]
2.5m viewing distance from a 16:9 100” diagonal screen (48.5” high) for Academy to Widescreen movies and
1.85m (75% ^) for Scope/70mm movies (and IMAX.)

83”
US:

[Show spoiler]
6.7 feet viewing distance from a 16:9 83” diagonal screen (40.2” high) for Academy to Widescreen movies and
5 feet (75% ^) for Scope/70mm movies (and IMAX.)

metric:

[Show spoiler]
2m viewing distance from a 16:9 83” diagonal screen (40.2” high) for Academy to Widescreen movies and
1.5m (75% ^) for Scope/70mm movies (and IMAX.)

77”
US:

[Show spoiler]
6.2 feet viewing distance from a 16:9 77” diagonal screen (37.3” high) for Academy to Widescreen movies and
4.66 feet (75% ^) for Scope/70mm movies (and IMAX.)

metric:

[Show spoiler]
1.9m viewing distance from a 16:9 77” diagonal screen (37.3” high) for Academy to Widescreen movies and
1.42m (75% ^) for Scope/70mm movies (and IMAX.)

65”
US:

[Show spoiler]
5 feet viewing distance from a 16:9 65” diagonal screen (31.5” high) for Academy to Widescreen movies and
4 feet (75% ^) for Scope/70mm movies (and IMAX.)

metric:

[Show spoiler]
1.6m viewing distance from a 16:9 65” diagonal screen (31.5” high) for Academy to Widescreen movies and
1.2m (75% ^) for Scope/70mm movies (and IMAX.)

55”
US:

[Show spoiler]
4.5 feet viewing distance from a 16:9 55” diagonal screen (26.7” high) for Academy to Widescreen movies and
3.33 feet (75% ^) for Scope/70mm movies (and IMAX.)

metric:

[Show spoiler]
1.36m viewing distance from a 16:9 55” diagonal screen (26.7” high) for Academy to Widescreen movies and
1m (75% ^) for Scope/70mm movies (and IMAX.)

42”
US:

[Show spoiler]
3.4 feet viewing distance from a 16:9 42” diagonal screen (20.4” high) for Academy to Widescreen movies and
2.6 feet (75% ^) for Scope/70mm movies (and IMAX.)

metric:

[Show spoiler]
1m viewing distance from a 16:9 42” diagonal screen (20.4” high) for Academy to Widescreen movies and
0.75m (75% ^) for Scope/70mm movies (and IMAX.)

Back of the theater/4PH is aproximately:
(choose your 16:9 screen diagonal size and measuring unit)

120”
US:

[Show spoiler]
20 feet viewing distance from a 16:9 120” diagonal screen (58.2” high) for Academy to Widescreen movies and
15 feet (75% ^) for Scope/70mm movies (and IMAX.)

metric

[Show spoiler]
6m viewing distance from a 16:9 120” diagonal screen (58.2” high) for Academy to Widescreen movies and
4.5m (75% ^) for Scope/70mm movies (and IMAX.)

100”
US:

[Show spoiler]
16 feet viewing distance from a 16:9 100” diagonal screen (48.5” high) for Academy to Widescreen movies and
12’ feet (75% ^) for Scope/70mm movies (and IMAX.)

metric:

[Show spoiler]
5m viewing distance from a 16:9 100” diagonal screen (48.5” high) for Academy to Widescreen movies and
3.9m (75% ^) for Scope/70mm movies (and IMAX.)

83”
US:

[Show spoiler]
13.4 feet viewing distance from a 16:9 83” diagonal screen (40.2” high) for Academy to Widescreen movies and
10 feet (75% ^) for Scope/70mm movies (and IMAX.)

metric:

[Show spoiler]
4m viewing distance from a 16:9 83” diagonal screen (40.2” high) for Academy to Widescreen movies and
3m (75% ^) for Scope/70mm movies (and IMAX.)

77”
US:

[Show spoiler]
12.4 feet viewing distance from a 16:9 77” diagonal screen (37.3” high) for Academy to Widescreen movies and
9.3 feet (75% ^) for Scope/70mm movies (and IMAX.)

metric:

[Show spoiler]
3.8m viewing distance from a 16:9 77” diagonal screen (37.3” high) for Academy to Widescreen movies and
2.8m (75% ^) for Scope/70mm movies (and IMAX.)

65”
US:

[Show spoiler]
10 feet viewing distance from a 16:9 65” diagonal screen (31.5” high) for Academy to Widescreen movies and
7.5 feet (75% ^) for Scope/70mm movies (and IMAX.)

metric:

[Show spoiler]
3m viewing distance from a 16:9 65” diagonal screen (31.5” high) for Academy to Widescreen movies and
2.4m (75% ^) for Scope/70mm movies (and IMAX.)

55”
US:

[Show spoiler]
8.9 feet viewing distance from a 16:9 55” diagonal screen (26.7” high) for Academy to Widescreen movies and
6.66 feet (75% ^) for Scope/70mm movies (and IMAX.)

metric:

[Show spoiler]
2.7m viewing distance from a 16:9 55” diagonal screen (26.7” high) for Academy to Widescreen movies and
2m (75% ^) for Scope/70mm movies (and IMAX.)

42”
US:

[Show spoiler]
6.8 feet viewing distance from a 16:9 42” diagonal screen (20.4” high) for Academy to Widescreen movies and
5.1 feet (75% ^) for Scope/70mm movies (and IMAX.)

metric:

[Show spoiler]
2m viewing distance from a 16:9 42” diagonal screen (20.4” high) for Academy to Widescreen movies and
1.5m (75% ^) for Scope/70mm movies (and IMAX.)

*a digitally generated 8K image (CGI) or higher resolution one from a Digital Camera would be cleaner still

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by eXtofer

I’m a gamer and I think there’s a disconnect between the big companies and consumers when it comes to what we want. 4K in the console market is still kind of a novelty because often developers will allow you to choose lower frame rates with 4k or higher frame rates with sub-4k. Most of us will opt for the higher frame rates. It’s very rare that you get a stable game to run on console at 4k and hold 60fps.

Nintendo, of all companies, seems to finally get it with their announcement that Switch 2 will allow 120fps at 1080p. We’re less about the most beautiful presentation and more about how the game runs.

That has been my experience as well; the gamers that I know are much more concerned with achieving (stable) higher frame rates than they are with increasing mere resolution.

[eXtofer]

Originally Posted by Vilya

That has been my experience as well; the gamers that I know are much more concerned with achieving (stable) higher frame rates than they are with increasing mere resolution.

Yeah and the fact that all of the consoles and graphics cards rely on machine learning AI upscaling along with dynamic resolution to achieve higher frame rates, it makes actual native 4k games extremely rare these days. I’d say gamers care way less about resolution than movie lovers do. Sony was the only one touting 8k and nobody cared because we know what costs are associated with that.

[LexInHD]

A lot of PC gamers are obsessed with 4K, because of spec-masturbating. In gaming circles, you will get trolled and attacked endlessly, if you aren't running a 4K gaming rig, with a high-end GPU that can do 60-144fps or greater. I'm happily running 1080p @ 165hz, so I'm good, though I need to build a new rig due to the old GPU and no upgrade options.

[Hbx360]

Seems only Samsung is serious about 8K TVs these days. One use case for an 8K TV that is compelling to me is that a 55 inch TV at 8K has a similar PPI as a 27 inch 4K monitor. It could make for a good experience as a large format monitor. But Samsung appears to have stopped making 55 inch 8K models entirely.