Simon & Simon (private detective series discussion thread)

[OceanBlue]

Originally Posted by UnionJackMix

Thank you for this thread and the details about all the separate season releases. I think that by the time further seasons were finally released I had lost track of the show and never purchased them, so I think I need to make it up, especially as there might not be Blurays coming.

Without checking Shout's DVD sets (going by rusty memory), the Season Four set I think has two episodes which had to be sourced from syndication masters (it's stated on artwork on/in the set). They don't have the teaser preview at the beginning and the parts where there would have been ad breaks for example are not there (losing a few seconds, hence the shorter runtime).

And back when Shout had a community forum/message board on their website, I do remember a Shout representative saying early on (when they started releasing the series on DVD from season 2 onwards) that there were not going to be interviews with the two actors who played the brothers.

[OceanBlue]

My mind has gone blank on which episode of Simon & Simon played a clip from the Michael Sembello song Maniac (the plot involved a female disc jockey).

[UnionJackMix]

Originally Posted by OceanBlue

Without checking Shout's DVD sets (going by rusty memory), the Season Four set I think has two episodes which had to be sourced from syndication masters (it's stated on artwork on/in the set). They don't have the teaser preview at the beginning and the parts where there would have been ad breaks for example are not there (losing a few seconds, hence the shorter runtime).

And back when Shout had a community forum/message board on their website, I do remember a Shout representative saying early on (when they started releasing the series on DVD from season 2 onwards) that there were not going to be interviews with the two actors who played the brothers.

I never understood the concept of syndication and I have to be honest still don't, because in Europe I think it was pretty much all syndication? I mean, especially American shows from the 70s and 80s were shown years later. What I do remember is that they were always shown out of sequence and I don't think I ever saw the last episode of any series ever.

Anyway, the Swiss French tv has been airing Magnum p.i. weekly in HD (2 episodes) and is now on the last season. I've been recording them all. What I noticed is that in the last seasons often there was no intro montage, but it was quite random. So are you saying that if a tv show would not show the intro it would be the syndication version? Does that account for the shorter duration or were there other cuts made?

[OceanBlue]

Originally Posted by UnionJackMix

I never understood the concept of syndication and I have to be honest still don't, because in Europe I think it was pretty much all syndication? I mean, especially American shows from the 70s and 80s were shown years later. What I do remember is that they were always shown out of sequence and I don't think I ever saw the last episode of any series ever.

Anyway, the Swiss French tv has been airing Magnum p.i. weekly in HD (2 episodes) and is now on the last season. I've been recording them all. What I noticed is that in the last seasons often there was no intro montage, but it was quite random. So are you saying that if a tv show would not show the intro it would be the syndication version? Does that account for the shorter duration or were there other cuts made?

What you say about some Magnum episodes not having teaser previews, I noticed that when watching some of the DVD season sets (the title sequence started straight away). In addition, when an episode ended shorter the end credits were longer (same thing happened with the original Equalizer series). I don't recall this happening with Simon & Simon (the feature-length episodes maybe being an exception).

My interpretation of those two episodes of Simon & Simon being sourced from syndication masters is that the original versions were/are lost. Apparently, Universal's DVD release of the first season had music substitutions etc. (the episodes don't end with the Universal Television logo either, like with the Magnum, P.I. episode "L.A." in that series' Season Seven DVD set). Shout! Factory are one of the boutique labels who seem able to clear music clearance issues (like Fabulous Films were with their UK DVD releases of the original Equalizer series), so I don't believe there are any (or many) music substitutions etc. in their DVD releases of Seasons 2-7. Am going by what I read on DVD Compare, but the runtimes for the episodes in the final, eighth season are shorter than what they should have been if they were uncut.

When I first heard about the word 'syndication' with regards to television series, I found it confusing (still do sometimes). You read about shows sold into syndication after a certain number of episodes are made, episodes having to be cut so they can air in a timeslot with more ads fitted in, and episodes originally shown in the States as feature-length being shown in syndication as two-parters. Similar with 'remastered' and 'remastering' (I've heard that described as episodes of a TV show being put onto discs, and the transfer).

Would be interested to know if the final episode of Magnum being shown on Swiss French TV is the feature-length version.

[OceanBlue]

Simon & Simon's last two seasons, like the first season, were not full length. By that point the ratings were dropping and it was moved around the schedules (season 6 was full-length, with the next season having six less episodes less and starting later than normal. The final season had less episodes again (that year there had been a strike), with the last two episodes of the series not premiering until the following March).

If I remember correctly (from reading on the web), the mid-nineties reunion TV film In Trouble Again didn't do well in the ratings because the network chose to air it against a new episode of Seinfeld (called "The Doorman"). From testing out my copy of Shout's DVD release of Season 5 of Simon & Simon, the reunion TV film doesn't use the title sequence and theme tune from the series (this happened with some reunion TV films from other television series (Murder, She Wrote and The Rockford Files).

Source of some of the information above: EpGuides.

[RetroRobert]

Originally Posted by OceanBlue

Shout! Factory are one of the boutique labels who seem able to clear music clearance issues (like Fabulous Films were with their UK DVD releases of the original Equalizer series), so I don't believe there are any (or many) music substitutions etc. in their DVD releases of Seasons 2-7. Am going by what I read on DVD Compare, but the runtimes for the episodes in the final, eighth season are shorter than what they should have been if they were uncut.

For anyone interested, the Season 4 episode "The Secret Of The Chrome Eagle" is actually edited on the Shout Season 4 set. They have removed the beginning of the scene when AJ and Rick are driving with the girl in the backseat. They are singing a Beatles song I believe. However, if you have the Season 1 dvd set, you will find this same episode is included as a Bonus Feature even though there is no mention of it on the cover and it is, in fact, unedited complete with that scene. Just an FYI because I discovered it after having re-watched the episode on the Shout set and figured out why Shout had a disclaimer on their case saying there was a music edit for that episode.

[OceanBlue]

Originally Posted by RetroRobert

For anyone interested, the Season 4 episode "The Secret Of The Chrome Eagle" is actually edited on the Shout Season 4 set. They have removed the beginning of the scene when AJ and Rick are driving with the girl in the backseat. They are singing a Beatles song I believe. However, if you have the Season 1 dvd set, you will find this same episode is included as a Bonus Feature even though there is no mention of it on the cover and it is, in fact, unedited complete with that scene. Just an FYI because I discovered it after having re-watched the episode on the Shout set and figured out why Shout had a disclaimer on their case saying there was a music edit for that episode.

Can't find my copy of Universal's Season One DVD boxset at the moment (can get another copy if I don't find it). The season 1 set apparently has music substitutions. Have checked the packaging only on my copy of Shout's Season Two set (the episode "The Secret of the Chrome Eagle" is from towards the end of that season) and yes, there is a brief disclaimer on the rear card sleeve for the slimline case that says that it is, or may be, different from the televised version. Your post was a helpful reminder as in the back of my mind I had a memory that as well as the two episodes in the Season Four DVD set that were shorter than the others, there was one episode in an early season that had some clearance issue.

The last time I watched Simon & Simon was around eight years ago (I was almost at the end of the sixth season

[Show spoiler](Tim Reid's last season as Downtown Brown),

so I had forgotten that "The Secret of the Chrome Eagle" was included as an extra in Universal's Season One set (was there a second bonus episode included in the same DVD set?). Didn't know that about the Beatles song (if that is indeed a Beatles song that the two Simon brothers were singing). In Network's UK DVD releases of the sixties-set drama series Heartbeat the Beatles' songs are substituted for cover versions of their songs.

Was "The Secret of the Chrome Eagle" about an antique car that the Simon brothers had to transport to a location?

I checked my copy of Shout's Season Four set as well (again, the packaging only) and there is no disclaimer for any of the episodes, saying that syndicated versions had been used instead (unless it was a different season, without checking the discs I think the disclaimer may be on the menu screen(s).

[RetroRobert]

Originally Posted by OceanBlue

The last time I watched Simon & Simon was around eight years ago (I was almost at the end of the sixth season so I had forgotten that "The Secret of the Chrome Eagle" was included as an extra in Universal's Season One set (was there a second bonus episode included in the same DVD set?). Didn't know that about the Beatles song (if that is indeed a Beatles song that the two Simon brothers were singing). In Network's UK DVD releases of the sixties-set drama series Heartbeat the Beatles' songs are substituted for cover versions of their songs.

No, there was just 1 bonus episode as well as a bonus feature about The Great 80s Flashback. The Beatles song used in the Season 2 episode "The Secret Of The Chrome Eagle" is When I'm 64.

Originally Posted by OceanBlue

Was "The Secret of the Chrome Eagle" about an antique car that the Simon brothers had to transport to a location?

I checked my copy of Shout's Season Four set as well (again, the packaging only) and there is no disclaimer for any of the episodes, saying that syndicated versions had been used instead (unless it was a different season, without checking the discs I think the disclaimer may be on the menu screen(s).

Yes, that's the episode. Interesting that they chose that specific episode as a bonus for the Season 1 set but then didn't advertise such on the packaging. It IS one of the best episodes of the series IMHO.

[OceanBlue]

The following quoted post is from the Germany sub-forum thread for Plaion Pictures' Blu-ray boxset of Magnum: Complete Ultimate Collection:

Originally Posted by RetroRobert

The first one is "A Little Wine With Murder" from Season 4. The cuts were minor but there is a note on the DVD menu that states the original master could not be located. I have heard the cuts are only a few seconds from 2 scenes. Either way, it would be nice to have the complete unedited version. It's one of my favorite episodes because it's a straight-forward who-dunnit and there's some restaurant fun with the guys.

The other one is also from Season 4... "Our Fair City" but I'm not sure how much has been cut from that one.

Knew I wasn't going round the bend regarding the two episodes in one of Shout's DVD season sets that were shorter than the other episodes in the same set. I hadn't seen a disclaimer on the card sleeve.