Panasonic UB820/UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[sojrner]

Originally Posted by pr0darek

It is not without reason that I wrote:
It's a waste of both the device...
It is logical that electronic devices degrade the longer they are turned on. I would have to be stupid to willingly contribute to the faster damage of my UB9000 or any other player I own. I respect and take care of my devices so that they serve me as long as possible. Especially since these are some of the last players and spare parts will only decrease.

All this positive aspects with just a 10-second startup delay.

OK, so now it's no longer about heat in standby, or electricity bills from standby, or even similarities to kitchen appliances... now it's standby-induced degradation? This did start as a simple discussion on the feature. If fully off is what you prefer or you see the extra cost not worth 10 seconds (not the actual time), that's fine. The near whiplash-inducing justification you keep shifting about is not required.

Addressing your last bits directly: With Quick Start, the device is not "turned on." It is in standby mode that provides a faster boot while using 1/4 of the power vs fully on. That low-power state will not degrade anything, as even the fan is off. I gave you reasoning and numbers, yet you ignore that, call using Quick Start stupid, move goal posts, and finish by adding a condescending (and passive aggressive) twist about taking care of devices. That is not logic, that is obtuse trolling.

Like what you like, but don't get angry/defensive/belittling when logic refutes your arguments.

End of line.

[pr0darek]

It's about everything together and no buddy it's not about constantly presenting new facts it's about constantly explaining one fact to you. Temperatures and degradation are closely related, power consumption is the least of the problems.

Originally Posted by sojrner

extra cost not worth 10 seconds (not the actual time), that's fine

If I write the actual time of 15 seconds will you feel better ?

UB9000

Player off/standby with QS off ~0,5W (~ 4,4 KWh a year)
Player off/standby with QS on ~14W (~122 KWh a year)

Player on without playing disk ~20W
Player on playing BD ~24W - 30W

source: https://www.avforums.com/threads/pan.../post-29644884
And that's all about the "low power consumption mode" 14W vs 20W so now add to that your fan and display and if you like counting so much you will get the correct result.

Originally Posted by sojrner

even the fan is off

In UB9000 it is turn off even when the device is turned on.

Do you like more numbers? No problem, example on

UB420:
After 30 minutes after turn on UB420 and go instant to "sleep" (Quick start), device reports actual CPU temperature 68 C (with kernel fix patches). How do I know this? I have full remote access to the device via root shell and connection is possible even if device is in "Quick start" mode... wifi is active, network is active... some system processes go to sleep and the CPU usage is zero, normally it is about ~3%.

When we turn on the device, and wait about 20 minutes the temperature drops to 57 C. Why does it drop? Because the fan will be turned on.

UB9000 (The fan only starts up initially when starting the device and in critical states):
After 1h "sleep" (Quick start) temp 57 C (with kernel fix patches)
After waking up and waiting 20 minutes temp 52 C.

These are facts, not some specifications on paper.

That's the end of me.

[sojrner]

Originally Posted by pr0darek

It's about everything together and no buddy it's not about constantly presenting new facts it's about constantly explaining one fact to you.

[Show spoiler]Temperatures and degradation are closely related, power consumption is the least of the problems.


If I write the actual time of 15 seconds will you feel better ?

UB9000

source: https://www.avforums.com/threads/pan.../post-29644884
And that's all about the "low power consumption mode" 14W vs 20W so now add to that your fan and display and if you like counting so much you will get the correct result.


In UB9000 it is turn off even when the device is turned on.

Do you like more numbers? No problem, example on

UB420:
After 30 minutes after turn on UB420 and go instant to "sleep" (Quick start), device reports actual CPU temperature 68 C (with kernel fix patches). How do I know this? I have full remote access to the device via root shell and connection is possible even if device is in "Quick start" mode... wifi is active, network is active... some system processes go to sleep and the CPU usage is zero, normally it is about ~3%.

When we turn on the device, and wait about 20 minutes the temperature drops to 57 C. Why does it drop? Because the fan will be turned on.

UB9000 (The fan only starts up initially when starting the device and in critical states):
After 1h "sleep" (Quick start) temp 57 C (with kernel fix patches)
After waking up and waiting 20 minutes temp 52 C.

These are facts, not some specifications on paper.

That's the end of me.

First, a genuine thank you. Instead of constantly shifting goals, you're now reasoning things out. Second, I stated right from the beginning that I had networking OFF, while yours is still on. Your heat measurements and such are the result of the very thing that was a factor for why I'm sure I don't have the issues you do:

Originally Posted by sojrner

Interesting. I don't have this issue. Mine is not on a ventilation-restricted shelf or in a hot room, but heat has never been an issue over the years that quick start has been on.

One (speculative) thing that could contribute to my lack of heat problems on standby: I keep it detached from the internet and only connect when I hear of an update available. I don't like so-called "live" (and slow) content in disc menus. Anything needing a network (streaming, file playback) is handled by my Shield.

The AVForum numbers are a bit low compared to Panasonic. I previously used the ub820 numbers. (ub420 is very similar) What you and I (and even avforums) have are mostly anecdotal facts, useful for discussion; they are not universal. The specifications, on paper, are still the overall truth, measured under repeatable conditions. In all that, you can calculate expenses easy enough, and at my local $11.41/kWh, the extra $8 annually for QS is not a big deal. (especially knowing it's probably less without networking) As I said: I don't have the heat issues you do, probably as a direct result of disconnecting the network, and therefore degradation is not an issue and the cost difference, while measurable, is worth it to me for the convenience.

Happy trails, mate.

[pr0darek]

It doesn't matter, the device reaches identical temperatures regardless of the network connection

I have additional data regarding UB420:
Device in Home Menu ~10-11 W
Device in standby mode(QS on) network disconnected ~8.6-9 W

It's not hard to guess what the temperatures will be. We have thus returned to the starting point which proves the thesis:

Originally Posted by pr0darek

..... When the device is in Quick start mode it is actually running all the time, the system is working all the time. It's stupid to have the device on 24/7, this is not real sleep mode..

Your choice.

[deatheats]

The other issue with Quick Start, is that it can hamper troubleshooting as a lot of owners may think they are actually powering down the unit by turning it, “off” and only end up resolving their issues after physically pulling the power cable.

I suspect many of the people who swap out power strips to fix their problems are actually powering down the unit for the first time in months due to Quick start being the default setting.

[sojrner]

Originally Posted by pr0darek

It doesn't matter, the device reaches identical temperatures regardless of the network connection

I have additional data regarding UB420:
Device in Home Menu ~10-11 W
Device in standby mode(QS on) network disconnected ~8.6-9 W

It's not hard to guess what the temperatures will be. We have thus returned to the starting point which proves the thesis:



Your choice.

Oy vey.

[Funktion]

I just received an UB820 player.

Currently, I'm in the middle of preparing to move houses, and a 4K TV set I bought will only be installed in a couple of months at the new place, so I'm going to temporarily connect the UB820 player to an older Full HD TV, to watch movies in the meantime.

This is my first UHD player, but from I recall reading, some image problems may happen (overly dark image, loss of detail, ...) during the HDR to SDR conversion, because of the TV set I'm going to use.

Is there any settings I should look to change/disable, to mitigate some of those problems, while I'm using this old TV set?

thank you

[Naiera]

There's nothing you can do. You can choose between a contrasty image with great loss of detail or a flat, boring image. You'd be much better off just watching the Blu-ray copies while you wait.

[Funktion]

Originally Posted by Naiera

There's nothing you can do. You can choose between a contrasty image with great loss of detail or a flat, boring image. You'd be much better off just watching the Blu-ray copies while you wait.

Thanks.

Yeah, for existing stuff I have my existing BD player, but since I bought a ton of 4K only titles recently (like Arrow's A Fistful of Dollars), I will need to use the UB820 for some of them.

[Hedrox]

Originally Posted by Naiera

There's nothing you can do. You can choose between a contrasty image with great loss of detail or a flat, boring image. You'd be much better off just watching the Blu-ray copies while you wait.

That is such BS. In most cases you're better off watching the 4K disc downconverted to 1080p SDR than dealing with the poor BDs studios usually put out. The only exceptions I'd make are for boutique labels that know what they're doing, stuff from Arrow and Second Sight, and even they drop the ball sometimes with BDs.

As for how the UB820 handles the SDR conversion, it's not perfect obviously, you'll never get a good representation of how the disc would look on an HDR display, but you can play around with the settings a bit and get a pretty good image, certainly much better than 10-15 year old BD.

Make sure you set the output resolution in the player settings menu to 1080p, and in the advanced section HDR/Color gamut output to SDR/BT.709.
During playback, if it's an HDR movie, I would also suggest going into the player's video settings, Optimum HDR Adjustment menu and tweaking the Dynamic Range Conversion Adj. slider to your liking. I remember using something like +7 on my old HD TV, along with Tone Curve (White): -5
and Tone Curve (Black): -2. That seemed to be the sweet spot.

[Funktion]

Originally Posted by Hedrox

Make sure you set the output resolution in the player settings menu to 1080p, and in the advanced section HDR/Color gamut output to SDR/BT.709.
During playback, if it's an HDR movie, I would also suggest going into the player's video settings, Optimum HDR Adjustment menu and tweaking the Dynamic Range Conversion Adj. slider to your liking. I remember using something like +7 on my old HD TV, along with Tone Curve (White): -5
and Tone Curve (Black): -2. That seemed to be the sweet spot.

Thank you.

[Naiera]

Originally Posted by Hedrox

That is such BS. In most cases you're better off watching the 4K disc downconverted to 1080p SDR than dealing with the poor BDs studios usually put out ...

Sure, if you have good HDR to SDR conversion, but no UHD player has that...

[Hedrox]

Originally Posted by Naiera

Sure, if you have good HDR to SDR conversion, but no UHD player has that...

The panny does, certainly better than oppo's.

[sojrner]

Originally Posted by Hedrox

[Show spoiler]That is such BS. In most cases you're better off watching the 4K disc downconverted to 1080p SDR than dealing with the poor BDs studios usually put out. The only exceptions I'd make are for boutique labels that know what they're doing, stuff from Arrow and Second Sight, and even they drop the ball sometimes with BDs.

As for how the UB820 handles the SDR conversion, it's not perfect obviously, you'll never get a good representation of how the disc would look on an HDR display, but you can play around with the settings a bit and get a pretty good image, certainly much better than 10-15 year old BD.

Make sure you set the output resolution in the player settings menu to 1080p, and in the advanced section HDR/Color gamut output to SDR/BT.709.
During playback, if it's an HDR movie, I would also suggest going into the player's video settings, Optimum HDR Adjustment menu and tweaking the Dynamic Range Conversion Adj. slider to your liking. I remember using something like +7 on my old HD TV, along with Tone Curve (White): -5
and Tone Curve (Black): -2. That seemed to be the sweet spot.

Originally Posted by Funktion

Thank you.

Make sure you note all of what you do so you can reverse it when you eventually connect to the new TV. (or do a factory reset) When you're in there twiddling with settings, it's easy to forget which ones you change over time. Just a helpful tip. Enjoy the new player.

[Naiera]

Originally Posted by Hedrox

The panny does ...

I disagree. I'm sure Panasonic's is the best, but I don't think it's good enough.

[Funktion]

Originally Posted by sojrner

Make sure you note all of what you do so you can reverse it when you eventually connect to the new TV. (or do a factory reset) When you're in there twiddling with settings, it's easy to forget which ones you change over time. Just a helpful tip. Enjoy the new player.

Will do.

Since it's a short period anyway, I'll try mainly changing "basic" settings, and not going into extensive changes or re-calibrations.

[roar]

Originally Posted by roar

Took my 9000 to an authorized service provider and they’ve recommended replacing the laser assembly unit, $340 (CDN). With $1,200 invested in the unit I’ve opted to replace it. Fingers crossed I can play 4K’s more reliably.

Coming up on a year now since having the drive replaced in my 9000. Haven’t had a single disc fail on me since the replacement! Very very pleased and wish I would have had it serviced years back now.

I did have a people a couple of months ago with my remote control randomly stop working. Tried all the trouble shooting techniques I found online and the the obvious swapping of batteries and I just could get it to work. This player is about useless without a functioning remote btw, you can’t get through the menus with the controls on the front! I’m bought a knockoff remote in Amazon’s for about $30 I think and it’s been working great since.

[deatheats]

Originally Posted by Funktion

Thanks.

Yeah, for existing stuff I have my existing BD player, but since I bought a ton of 4K only titles recently (like Arrow's A Fistful of Dollars), I will need to use the UB820 for some of them.

I used the 820 for about 6 months running to an 1080p OLED, mostly to get access to Atmos mixes and had decent results with the HDR to SDR conversion. Sure, it won’t be ideal, but can certainly suffice until you upgrade to a 4k display. Plus it was kind of fun comparing the blu with the 4k just to see how well the 820 handles the conversion.

I also own a 420 hooked up to that same TV (now in the bedroom) for two reasons, to take advantage of the top menu trick for region B discs and in the rare situation I want to finish a 4k disc in bed.

[Funktion]

Originally Posted by deatheats

I used the 820 for about 6 months running to an 1080p OLED, mostly to get access to Atmos mixes and had decent results with the HDR to SDR conversion. Sure, it won’t be ideal, but can certainly suffice until you upgrade to a 4k display. Plus it was kind of fun comparing the blu with the 4k just to see how well the 820 handles the conversion.

Thank you for your feedback.

Out of curiosity, do you remember what settings you used/changed (if any), while you were using that 1080p TV?

Since it's my first UHD player, and I'm a bit clueless about it, especially since most settings will only affect playback to a compatible 4K TV, I'm barely changing anything, until I get the new TV.

I changed the settings from NTSC to PAL, since I'm located in Europe, and we use PAL.
In terms of output resolution, I left it on automatic, since it detected, correctly, 1080p.
Dolby Vision was off by default, I switched it to on (stupid, I know, since obviously the TV is not compatible, but I'm kind of hoping the player doesn't use it if it doesn't detect compatible equipment; I may need to get it back to off).

Other than that, I didn't change anything.

Last night, I connected the player, but barely had any time to mess around with it, and I was only able to "test" the player with a... Blu-Ray disc.
And it was one for a film with a somewhat muted palette, which made it a doubly lousy option.
I just wanted to see if it was worth it to keep my existing BD player connected or not.

Anyway, I was checking the HDR/Colour Gamut Output options, and it has 3 options:
-HDR/BT.2020 (Auto)
-SDR/BT.2020 (Auto)
-SDR/BT.709

The player was on "HDR/BT.2020 (Auto)" by default, and I was going to change it to the last one, but for some reason option 2 (SDR/BT.2020 (Auto)) appeared to be showing slightly better image.

Is this a complete "placebo effect", or is there any logic as to why that setting may appear to be showing slightly better results, on a Blu-Ray disc, on a non-HDR Led TV?

thank you

[Hedrox]

Originally Posted by Funktion

Thank you for your feedback.

Out of curiosity, do you remember what settings you used/changed (if any), while you were using that 1080p TV?

Since it's my first UHD player, and I'm a bit clueless about it, especially since most settings will only affect playback to a compatible 4K TV, I'm barely changing anything, until I get the new TV.

I changed the settings from NTSC to PAL, since I'm located in Europe, and we use PAL.
In terms of output resolution, I left it on automatic, since it detected, correctly, 1080p.
Dolby Vision was off by default, I switched it to on (stupid, I know, since obviously the TV is not compatible, but I'm kind of hoping the player doesn't use it if it doesn't detect compatible equipment; I may need to get it back to off).

Other than that, I didn't change anything.

Last night, I connected the player, but barely had any time to mess around with it, and I was only able to "test" the player with a... Blu-Ray disc.
And it was one for a film with a somewhat muted palette, which made it a doubly lousy option.
I just wanted to see if it was worth it to keep my existing BD player connected or not.

Anyway, I was checking the HDR/Colour Gamut Output options, and it has 3 options:
-HDR/BT.2020 (Auto)
-SDR/BT.2020 (Auto)
-SDR/BT.709

The player was on "HDR/BT.2020 (Auto)" by default, and I was going to change it to the last one, but for some reason option 2 (SDR/BT.2020 (Auto)) appeared to be showing slightly better image.

Is this a complete "placebo effect", or is there any logic as to why that setting may appear to be showing slightly better results, on a Blu-Ray disc, on a non-HDR Led TV?

thank you

PAL and NTSC make no difference, while Dolby Vision does even if you have 1080p TV, because if it's FEL (Full Enhancement Layer) it can bake it into the base HDR10 layer, before applying the SDR conversion.

BT.2020 and BT.709 are color gamuts, SDR TVs usually only do BT.709. There are some newer models that support 2020, but they're not very common.
SDR/BT.2020 is usually reserved for non-HDR projectors.

You can actually check what the player is outputting when watching a movie by pressing the "Playback info" button on the remote.



First row is the video source, while the third row is the player's output. In this case the video is SDR BT.709 1080p 24fps being output as 4K SDR BT.709.