Master and Commander 4K UHD (2003)

[C.C. 95]

Disney has been nerfing the LFE for almost 20 years now. It's a hallmark of Disney discs.

[Okiephile]

Finally out for delivery, from rewindme.

[5meohd]

Originally Posted by RobertR

He does make the false claim that the bass was neutered so as not to drown out dialogue. Since there is no dialogue during the cannon shots (a sound editor would be an idiot to put them together), his claim is nonsense. He also fails to mention that the overhead footsteps weren't put in the Atmos speakers, which was an obvious thing to do.

While I agree a track shouldn't really be changed.. or at least all tracks should be included on disc.. You are missing a basic principal of mastering audio tracks for wide distribution/sale.

The playback volume, at home or cinema or your car or in your headphones, really should be set based on the loudest content within the disc, playlist, etc...

So looking at these graphs where we see the 25-30Hz region they've clearly set a fairly steep hi-pass filter on.. what SPL that plays back is all relative, as I'm sure you know.

So indeed, with the new roll-off, when you set your stereo's volume knob to have the relative SPL of bass at the same level in your chair what is going to happen? The dialog is going to be much louder.

Frankly, that is basically a requirement for most people.

Sucks that we are in this era of posh and beautiful collectors editions and something like this can't just have both tracks... it really does.

Luckily there is Make m k v, mkv tool nix, etc...

[sherlockjr]

Originally Posted by celluloidboy

... saw Heat in theaters when I was 17 ... the bass at the end, between the airplane turbines and the Moby track leading into the end credits, and the weight of the firearms in the shootout had such clean, fast low-end ....

Multi-channel theatrical sound systems are all individually EQ'd for the room they're in and the sound equipment that's reproducing them. Plus the people in the booth can futz with it further--even though they're not supposed to do that.

No way to tell from one example if the low-end you heard on that screening of HEAT was due to the mix or due to the particular low frequency speakers you heard, their placement, and how the LF was EQ'd for the room, as well as the damping factor of the amps driving those speakers. However, a "clean, fast low-end" reads like the system you heard it on, rather than the mix itself. You can achieve that in your own viewing room, but it could take significant $$$s for higher end audio equipment and most likely a professional installation with proper EQ and acoustic room treatment.

[Jawaburger]

Originally Posted by RobertR

What you're describing is very wide dynamic range. For me and many other people, such dynamic range is very desirable. Compressed dynamics are awful.

Wide dynamic range is great! Doesn't mean they can't up the dialogue levels a notch or two and still maintain the wide dynamic range. There is no reason the dialogue can't be at a reasonable volume outside of poorly mixing the audio.

[RobertR]

Originally Posted by 5meohd

The playback volume, at home or cinema or your car or in your headphones, really should be set based on the loudest content within the disc, playlist, etc...

That's not how I do it. I set the volume to where the dialogue level is at a comfortable level, with everything clearly audible. If things get much louder at certain points, that means the disc has wide dynamic range. That's desirable and impressive.

looking at these graphs where we see the 25-30Hz region they've clearly set a fairly steep hi-pass filter on.. what SPL that plays back is all relative, as I'm sure you know.

Yes. The levels are pretty similar down to around 40 Hz. The DVD is 10 dB louder at 30 Hz, and the level diverges dramatically from there.

Sucks that we are in this era of posh and beautiful collectors editions and something like this can't just have both tracks... it really does.

Yep. As I've pointed out on AVS, there was no reason whatsoever to nerf the bass. If the infrasonics had been maintained, sales would not have been reduced (no one with a system that can't reproduce high level infrasonics would have been harmed in any way), it would not have made mixing/authoring more difficult or expensive, and Atmos can easily handle high infrasonic levels. They have no excuse for what they did.

Luckily there is Make m k v, mkv tool nix, etc...

Yep. I took full advantage.

[Old Bones]

Amazon USA email - your item has shipped yaaay
Expected tomorrow doubt that very much

[trespoochies]

Originally Posted by Old Bones

Amazon USA email - your item has shipped yaaay
Expected tomorrow doubt that very much

"We might crush the hell out of it, but you'll get it tomorrow." - Love Amazon

[cheez avenger]

I watched the Shane Lee video everyone is parroting and am not sure why he would make the wishful thinking assumption about the height channels. Just because you wanted to hear some footsteps overhead via those channels doesn't mean the sound mixers of the 4K disc were going to grant your wishes. The footsteps are still there they're just not in the area you wanted them to be in. Doesn't negate the fact that the audio track doesn't sound great.

Now if he wants to nit-pick the low-end bass he can do that to his heart's content - graphs and all. It's still not going to mean that it sounds lame like the alarmists might want you to think it does.

It's an awesome release.

Now what I did hear about was that some folks were getting 2 Blu-rays instead of 1 4K disc and 1 BD in the steelbook.

[zepol]

Originally Posted by plissken99

Definitely not bothering to upgrade this. Really done shelling out for upgrades that aren’t major.

That's how I feel and why I post youtube reviews so that we all can get all the info to make our choice if to buy or not to buy again the same movie we already have,

[zepol]

Master and Commander - Film & 4K Steelbook Review - Do you need to upgrade? - YouTube

[RobertR]

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

The footsteps are still there they're just not in the area you wanted them to be in.

Putting them in the Atmos speakers was the obvious thing to do, and would have been much better. Are you really claiming there's no advantage to Atmos?

It's still not going to mean that it sounds lame...It's an awesome release.

The point is that it would have sounded noticeably better if the bass had been maintained, and there was no excuse to do what they did.

[cheez avenger]

Originally Posted by RobertR

Putting them in the Atmos speakers was the obvious thing to do, and would have been much better. Are you really claiming there's no advantage to Atmos?





The point is that it would have sounded noticeably better if the bass had been maintained, and there was no excuse to do what they did.

I love Atmos. This whole thing about not putting them there is a nothing burger. Folks are just getting into the weeds. "No footsteps overhead? 1-star!"

[RobertR]

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

I love Atmos. This whole thing about not putting them there is a nothing burger.

So you love something that you think is a "nothing burger".

[5meohd]

Originally Posted by RobertR

That's not how I do it. I set the volume to where the dialogue level is at a comfortable level, with everything clearly audible. If things get much louder at certain points, that means the disc has wide dynamic range. That's desirable and impressive.





Yes. The levels are pretty similar down to around 40 Hz. The DVD is 10 dB louder at 30 Hz, and the level diverges dramatically from there.






Yep. As I've pointed out on AVS, there was no reason whatsoever to nerf the bass. If the infrasonics had been maintained, sales would not have been reduced (no one with a system that can't reproduce high level infrasonics would have been harmed in any way), it would not have made mixing/authoring more difficult or expensive, and Atmos can easily handle high infrasonic levels. They have no excuse for what they did.





Yep. I took full advantage.

Sorry, I was a bit tired and hadnt had my coffee, yet.

More simply stated, those infrasonics absolutely are eating up headroom and it absolutely effects how loud people can turn up their TV speaker or soundbar speaker.

Imo, youre still a bit off in your assessment of the necessity of that hipass filter...

[cheez avenger]

Originally Posted by RobertR

So you love something that you think is a "nothing burger".

I wasn't offended and it's a worthy purchase.

[stephenstrother]

Originally Posted by New-Blu-Blood

Nice! Glad to hear that you got yours! I also ordered mine on July 17th but around 3pm EST and on DD's website it still says "Fulfillment In Process"...hopefully it ships soon and they don't suddenly cancel my order and tell me they're OOS

Same boat here, I finally messaged them to ask if they are actually going to ship the product or if they just took more preorders than they actually had stock to ship. I'm going to be livid if they did and I can't get this.

[RobertR]

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

I wasn't offended

That's your choice. But you seem willing to tell others that they shouldn't be bothered by what this release lacks.

[cheez avenger]

Originally Posted by RobertR

That's your choice. But you seem willing to tell others that they shouldn't be bothered by what this release lacks.

I'm saying it's not a terrible release. Folks calling this a deal breaker are the ones overreacting. It'd be the norm for the forum, though.

[geomon]

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

I watched the Shane Lee video everyone is parroting and am not sure why he would make the wishful thinking assumption about the height channels. Just because you wanted to hear some footsteps overhead via those channels doesn't mean the sound mixers of the 4K disc were going to grant your wishes. The footsteps are still there they're just not in the area you wanted them to be in. Doesn't negate the fact that the audio track doesn't sound great.

Now if he wants to nit-pick the low-end bass he can do that to his heart's content - graphs and all. It's still not going to mean that it sounds lame like the alarmists might want you to think it does.

It's an awesome release.

Now what I did hear about was that some folks were getting 2 Blu-rays instead of 1 4K disc and 1 BD in the steelbook.

Thank you. I don't understand this need to "upgrade" everything to Atmos. Why is that even considered an upgrade? We didn't hear footsteps over our heads back in 2003 and we liked the movie just fine.

This reminds me, I've really got to find my DVD copy so I can see how the DTS on that sounds compared to this new Atmos mix.