reluctant to add non-lossless to your collection?

[benricci]

Originally Posted by SDon1969

Actually, OP, "reluctant" is a pretty good word to use in my case. I still buy lossy BDs (one of the best examples is First Blood that you mentioned, another might be Speed Racer), but I stop and think about it, maybe gripe a little, and still end up buying them if I like the movie and the PQ is good.

Probably the most honest answer yet.

I don't believe a lot of the fist-pumpers who claim that they refuse to buy movies they love if they only come with a standard 5.1 track. Especially when they make their collections public...

[FendersRule]

LOL at these people:

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Sound is the last thing I look at for BD, I am always more interested in PQ then sound

Originally Posted by boxterduke

Same here, I don't even look at what the Audio is on a BD or DVD.
For me as long as I hear sounds and effects on all my speakers then I'm ok.
I like PQ more.

Obviously, you have no sound system. Watching movies is all about immersion. I think you can also scientifically find that people are far more immersed with a sound system (we can show this through physiological responses - pupil dilation, heart rate, etc) compared to not having one.

Seriously, I use to think the same way as you guys until I got fitted with a good sound system. Picture quality is important, but it's literally only 10-20% of the experience- Fact. Think about it, without a good sound system, you are just looking at a moving picture.

However, I wouldn't go as far to the extreme as this:

Originally Posted by ZIPPO

I'm just the opposite. I avoid releases without lossless audio. I want the total package of what Blu-ray can offer.

Superman on Blu-ray actually has a pretty stout Dolby Digital Track. It really shouldn't cause you to not buy your favorite movies.

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by FendersRule

LOL at these people:





Obviously, you have no sound system. Watching movies is all about immersion. I think you can also scientifically find that people are far more immersed with a sound system (we can show this through physiological responses - pupil dilation, heart rate, etc) compared to not having one.

Seriously, I use to think the same way as you guys until I got fitted with a good sound system. Picture quality is important, but it's literally only 10-20% of the experience- Fact. Think about it, without a good sound system, you are just looking at a moving picture.

However, I wouldn't go as far to the extreme as this:



Superman on Blu-ray actually has a pretty stout Dolby Digital Track. It really shouldn't cause you to not buy your favorite movies.

I agree. But in saying that, I had to go take a look at your system. How come your center channel is fricking BURIED underneath the coffee table? If sound doesn't come out muffled from that I'd be shocked.



Put da money where da mouth is.

Originally Posted by SDon1969

Actually, OP, "reluctant" is a pretty good word to use in my case. I still buy lossy BDs (one of the best examples is First Blood that you mentioned, another might be Speed Racer), but I stop and think about it, maybe gripe a little, and still end up buying them if I like the movie and the PQ is good.

Lossless audio is important to me, though, no doubt about it.

I agree with this statement more than anything else. I've decided against a few "maybe" titles on the cheap because they didn't have lossless.

[FendersRule]

Originally Posted by aramis109

I agree. But in saying that, I had to go take a look at your system. How come your center channel is fricking BURIED underneath the coffee table? If sound doesn't come out muffled from that I'd be shocked.



Put da money where da mouth is.

Why is your center speaker placed horizontally?

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=89614

When I typically watch a movie, I simply move my coffee table aside. You know it only weighs about 10 lbs right? It's not bolted to the ground...

It actually doesn't make that much of a difference at all, but I'm sure the difference is there so I move it anyways.

And yes, my money is where my mouth is. I'm currently custom building a $500 subwoofer with a sound engineer to add to my collection as well within the next week.

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by FendersRule

Why is your center speaker placed horizontally?



When I typically watch a movie, I simply move my coffee table aside. You know it only weighs about 10 lbs right? It's not bolted to the ground...

Because it's specifically designed to run either horizontally or vertically. I don't put a lot of creedence in that belief regardless. Also, if you're going to run a horizontal center, you should run one that's actually been designed to do that, rather than turning the CS1 on it's axis. It's designed to have a wide dispersion.




Nice try though.

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by FendersRule

Why is your center speaker placed horizontally?

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=89614
...

There is a case for vertically oriented centers...... but if a speaker is designed to be horizontally oriented, making it vertical may have an effect also...... mine for instance (although it can't be placed on its' end) has the tweeter above the driver, and is ported in the front on the left and right.... placing it on it's end will completely change the soundfield it creates.


EDIT:

I also have my issues with the "Vertical is better than horizontal" argument.... Although I respect those who make the case for vertical, and feel they have great knowledge on the matter..... I would like to see someone convince any one of the highly reputable high-end speaker manufacturers that their design of their center channels is "flawed"

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

There is a case for vertically oriented centers...... but if a speaker is designed to be horizontally oriented, making it vertical may have an effect also...... mine for instance (although it can't be placed on its' end) has the tweeter above the driver, and is ported in the front on the left and right.... placing it on it's end will completely change the soundfield it creates.

As will sticking it in a cabinet. It will amplify the bass/low frequency sounds and possibly introduce boominess.

LOL Fender, don't take it so personally. If you're going to yank people's chains, they're probably going to take a potshot back. I was just surprised to see someone who espouses the belief in audio (as I do) turn around and have their center off center, buried, and in a cabinet. It's all out of whack.

*edit* Agree wholeheartedly with your edit, Beta.

[FendersRule]

Originally Posted by aramis109

Because it's specifically designed to run either horizontally or vertically. I don't put a lot of creedence in that belief regardless. Also, if you're going to run a horizontal center, you should run one that's actually been designed to do that, rather than turning the CS1 on it's axis. It's designed to have a wide dispersion.

Actually, if it follows a MTM (which yours does, and 95% of all centers do), then scientifically, it is better to stand it up vertically. If you want, I can have a sound engineer explain this to you. Hell, PM Big Daddy, and he will tell you this.

The only thing it's been "designed" to do is sit conveniently beneath your TV, that's why it's horizontal in the first place. It has nothing to do with the audio quality or engineering but more to do with real estate. Even better, buy a floor standing as your center, but then you run into the risk if cutting off your screen.

You really need to read that link instead of just quoting it. You might learn something about lobing, comb filtering.

You don't have to put a "belief" in it. This isn't religion or politics. This is audio science. Vertical is better for MTM- period.

"nice try"!

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by aramis109

As will sticking it in a cabinet. It will amplify the bass/low frequency sounds and possibly introduce boominess.
.

I don't know about these speakers specifically, but my local shop (who I guess could be wrong just as easily as anyone else) told me that certain "bookshelf" speakers are designed as "Monitors" in the sense that they should be placed on stands..... others are more suited to be placed inside an entertainment stand, basically surrounded on all sides..... I don't know

One large factor is the ports on them, and my B&W 700's are front ported, and my 600's are rear ported...... of course I have the 600's mounted on the wall, and the 700's on stands, but ideally I would like to have the 600's on stands, but it's not feasibly with my room layout.....

My speakers also came with foam plugs for the ports, which I tried, and found better results when they weren't in use, so I don't use them.

[aramis109]

It's ok. I've obviously hurt your feelings. I just wanted to poke some fun after you were a bit rude to members who have no system (I might say elitist, which is my personal pet peeve in audiophile circles). I read the link- actually, if you look, I posted to it MONTHS ago with my opinions. I don't agree with everything it says although I do respect their opinions.

I don't want this to get any more off-topic, which I have obviously contributed to. Feel free to start up a thread about your center channel and see what other people think. You may be surprised- they can throw vocabulary like "lobing" and "comb filtering" like the best of them.

Beta- the CS1 and CS2 (I think his is a CS1) has a rear port and it's firing right into his cabinet. People like DonRSD have experienced the boominess introduced by doing that first hand. This is not the case of a center designed for that.

[progers13]

Originally Posted by FendersRule

Actually, if it follows a MTM (which yours does, and 95% of all centers do), then scientifically, it is better to stand it up vertically. If you want, I can have a sound engineer explain this to you. Hell, PM Big Daddy, and he will tell you this.

The only thing it's been "designed" to do is sit conveniently beneath your TV, that's why it's horizontal in the first place. It has nothing to do with the audio quality or engineering but more to do with real estate. Even better, buy a floor standing as your center, but then you run into the risk if cutting off your screen.

You really need to read that link instead of just quoting it. You might learn something about lobing, comb filtering.

You don't have to put a "belief" in it. This isn't religion or politics. This is audio science. Vertical is better for MTM- period.

"nice try"!

How did a discussion about buying or avoiding lossy titles turn into a p*ssing contest over how people have their gear setup?

C'mon guys, stick to the point. Lossless = good, lossy = not so good

[FendersRule]

Originally Posted by aramis109

It's ok. I've obviously hurt your feelings. I just wanted to poke some fun after you were a bit rude to members who have no system (I might say elitist, which is my personal pet peeve in audiophile circles). I read the link- actually, if you look, I posted to it MONTHS ago with my opinions. I don't agree with everything it says although I do respect their opinions.

I don't want this to get any more off-topic, which I have obviously contributed to. Feel free to start up a thread about your center channel and see what other people think. You may be surprised- they can throw vocabulary like "lobing" and "comb filtering" like the best of them.

So I was the rude one? It has nothing to do with being an "elitist". All I did was reply to the specific posters than said that audio quality basically "is meaningless" in their buying decision. The reason they think that is because they have no system, and the fact that it can be scientifically shown that audio quality is more important via physiological measures (I actually have lab that can test this, do you?) How is that being an elitist? I'm not making fun of them, I'm just telling them like it is. I didn't have a sound system a few months ago, so I was in the same boat myself.

Besides, YOU were the one that called me out. You posted my collection publicly on this thread, pretty much implying that my sound system "sucks" and is "less than optimal" and that what I said was meaningless just because (1) my coffee table cuts off 30% of my center (which my coffee table can easily be moved), and (2) my center is off-centered by about 2cm (lowlz), and (3) it's "burried" into my shelf (actually, it sort of sticks out of my shelf...is buried really the right word here?) For some reason, you find these reasons enough to punish me for stating what I have stated previously. Basically, it's obvious you think I'm a total idiot.

Try stepping infront of a mirror sometime. What was your purpose anyways in doing that anyways? Could you be the elitist?

Besides, have you ever "tried" to turn your center vertically? Probably not, because that means you'd have to buy a new shelf, and that would cost you money or time. As you see, not everyone's setup is perfect. And any MTM speaker that is placed horizontally is simply again due to real estate and NOT to engineering. I have lab tests that explain this if you'd like to see them.

You were the one that called out a fellow audio enthusiast. I'm not the one that looks like the bad guy here.

[benricci]

Are we done with this playground bickering?

[Monkey]

Why do you only have four feet tall speakers. really you need at least 8 feet.. Amateurs And on top of that your center speakers should be a perfect match with the center.. You both = fail

[RocShemp]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

First Blood looks great on BD and don't let the fact that it's not lossless dissuade you from purchasing it for $10 or less. The DTS-HD High Res audio is great for a film of this age. It's not lossless, but technically it's still HD audio. It's a great deal.

No it doesn't. It's slathered in DNR to the point that there is no fine detail. The audio does indeed fare much better and it's not too bad when you consider that it only costs $10 but I hope it gets re-released with a better video transfer.

[benricci]

Originally Posted by RocShemp

No it doesn't.

Yes it does.

[FendersRule]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

I would like to see someone convince any one of the highly reputable high-end speaker manufacturers that their design of their center channels is "flawed"

Again, they are horizontal not due to engineering, but due to real estate. This makes complete sense due to the fact that every TV stand I have ever seen just calls for a horizontal center....it's the only thing that fits!

REAL setups don't have these stupid-azz centers anyways. REAL setups have all floor standing fronts. Why do you think this is? Think on that for a little while....

If I had it my way, I would buy another Polk Monitor 50 and throw it under my TV. However, this would require wall mounting. That would also require putting my AV equipment in another room and running wires to my TV. That would also be unrealistic because I'm currently finishing my PHd program, and my living location is temporary ATM.

Yea, I'm just a poor college student who knows absolutely nothing, so just ignore me.

[Sussudio]

For me, story comes before everything else. IMO, Blu-ray may be about picture and sound, but movies are always about story. If I think a movie is great, I'm buying it, because I think story transcends any "medium" or "format." Having exceptional PQ/AQ is an added bonus

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by Sussudio

For me, story comes before everything else. IMO, Blu-ray may be about picture and sound, but movies are always about story. If I think a movie is great, I'm buying it, because I think story transcends any "medium" or "format." Having exceptional PQ/AQ is an added bonus

exactly..... There are so many factors to consider, especially if you already own it on DVD.

First time buys, I'll jump on a lossy track if it's the only one out there and I like the movie..... I don't have a problem re-purchasing films I love later down the road, but many don't feel the same.

[bingtau]

Originally Posted by goresnet

I never considered myself picky about this, but I noticed that First Blood has neither PCM, TrueHD, nor HD-MA. (Although it does have EX and DTS-HD.) But are any of you also avoiding lossy-only movies that you would add if it were lossless?

It's a shame but I'll forgive some titles. Blu's have been out for a long time now and the format war was over before it started. That's why it bothers me that even today we are still getting some shady discs out there. The whole point of blu's is quality and we want discs that are showcase material. There are a few movies that I'm waiting on because I'm hoping that they will get a proper release. The Fountain, Babel, and Mongol come to mind off hand. However for ten bucks, I just picked up Mongol. That film is great and here's hoping that when The Great Kahn comes out by 2011 they will bring us both films on BD 50's.