Archived: Insiders Thread

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by Dave Mack

Well, the entire opening prologue looks the EXACT same as the SB dvd with the VERY saturated colors so, nope, you're off with that stament.

What do you mean I'm off with that statement? That the movie didn't look the way I saw it when I saw it? How can I be off with that statement? I told you I've never seen the video of it. Of your screnshots there's a couple of the DVD ones that to me look closer to the theatrical print I saw, but most of the BD ones look closer. You know, when they grade a print they might make changes in the printing lights to get something very different from what the negative printed "flat" really has. (classic example: "day for night") While transfering for video from the negative or IP etc, can bring out a totally different image if you transfer it straight or if you play with it. The negative to print duplicating process can emphasize or de-emphasize certain colors (that's why negatives and intermediate elements have orangeish/brown dye masks, to minimize these color distortions), at the same time, a colorist can drain a color or push it on a video transfer. I've seen 2 versions of Costner's Robin Hood on video, one brown and murky, one looking more technicolory with the greens much more saturated. One looked better (more pleasing to me), one looked more accurate to the theatrical. Which was the reference then?

About the letters not being readable, well you weren't supposed to read them on the screen, they were a giant huge "ämbient" SFX, a moving background thing to make the movie more art-like. Now, if you can barely see them on the transfer that's another matter. I still haven't goten my BD copy yet.

[WriteSimply]

Maybe we need a Dracula: Coppola Digital Color Grading Discussion thread.

I got two questions specific to paidgeek: This is the director-approved digital color graded transfer, right? How hard would it be to create a font set for BD for all subtitle languages that looks like the original theatrical fonts? (puts in $20)



fuad

[Dave Mack]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

What do you mean I'm off with that statement? That the movie didn't look the way I saw it when I saw it? How can I be off with that statement?

What I meant was if you're saying that the new BD looks more accurate to what you recall as far as the colors go because as I've said numerous times, it's only 4 or 5 scenes. The majority of the film looks WAY over the top and colorful like the SBdvd. The opening prologue in Transylvania looks EXACTLY the same color-wise. If it were simply a case of the SBdvd being WAY too saturated and what's accurate would be the more desaturated look of the BD, well, like I said, it's only some scenes. It's even more dramatic when you actually see the disc. The scene with Mina and Lucy in the garden looks almost monchromatic except for the dresses and Lucy's hair. The scene with vamp Lucy almost looks like a B+W film comparatively.

That's all I'm saying. many people who now have the BD have said the EXACT same thing. If you were alluding that the old SB dvd and Laserdisc transfer were WRONG and this is right, I would disagree.
Now Coppolla has VERY right to tweak his film. I'm just pointing out the difference between the BD and the SBdvd. Now unless the dvd and the Criterion laserdisc were WAY off in these scenes, (something nobody has ever suggested...) then this release has had these scenes changed.
That's all I'm saying.

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by Dave Mack

What I meant was if you're saying that the new BD looks more accurate to what you recall as far as the colors go because as I've said numerous times, it's only 4 or 5 scenes

That's not what I said, I was saying the BD captures you posted. Haven't seen the BD yet. All I've seen is a year of release theatrical print.

Heh this is almost getting to John Badham's Dracula video transfer proportions



*is a Dracula "fan"

[Dave Mack]

Ok, let's NOT go there!
IMHO, that was a BIG mistake. I loved the way that originally looked!
I still have my old VHS!
Saw it opening day in NYC at the Ziegfeld. Scared the CRAP out of me when Mina came up to Van Helsing in the mine tunnel.

And, yes, I still reccomend the new BD of BS Dracula. In some ways the newer color scheme does work well. The scene with Vamp Lucy in the crypt is much better as before I thought it was too bright and WAY too blue looking. Wasn't creepy. Now, creepy.


cheers!

[Penton-Man]

Somebody here e-mailed me this link and I really have to publicly respond to this because it again involves the “insider” with connections to press reps at HD DVD friendly studios whom is primarily responsible for my lack of interest in posting on this forum.

It regards my post below that was copied onto the Insider’s Thread of AVS (they truly must be bored over there with no blu-ray insiders left to bash )………….

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ive#post195045

Now below is the delayed micro-analysis of the above post on AVM$........................

Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn, movie reviewer, journalist…..
In fairness, it wasn't Amir who brought this up, it was PM if I recall. He was the one who made the comparison and Amir has a right to defend himself against a classless attack. I took it as a juvenile rant similar to "My Dad is better than your Dad because he drives a Mercedes and your Dad drives a Cadillac" type of argument.

Originally Posted by pepar…..
It was PM greeting me to B-D.com, and I found it appalling that he would do that. I don't recall who, but someone carried PM's post here. What surprised me was that Amir deigned to respond.

^ from…………
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post11697847

^
Dang, don’t those people have anything else to talk about on that forum?

My response, for the record……………….
No pepar, what is appalling is despite the request for anonymity by paidgeek to the moderators of AVM$ (as documented on page 1 of their Insider’s Thread), Amir intentionally tried to reveal paidgeek’s full name on that forum (by referring to paid by what he thinks is paid’s actual first name) in the same coy fashion that he did with talkst8t in the past. It was the same unprofessional antagonistic behavior repeated by the A-man but, this time it was directed at paidgeek.

The history of the above (with links) is documented either on this Insider’s thread or the thread on this forum only open to actual blu-ray.com members.
I presume the “outing information” was gained by Amir thru contacts at WB or Dolby, certainly not SPE.

Nevertheless, I felt that if Amir is sooo comfortable in disregarding the basic requests of other Insiders on AVM$ by attempting to reveal their identity all over the internet, Amir or anyone else should have no trouble dealing with the knowledge that Amir is at least one executive level below the geek. And the actual point of my reply to you was to enlighten you as to not expect paidgeek to respond to questions as quickly as you might hope for given his real-world responsibilities.

If I were to have simply said that the geek is “busy” it would not nearly have had the same effect. Hell we’re all “busy”.

Anyway the above is all old news, I can’t believe those people are dredging it up all over again nearly one month after the fact.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by monkyman
Penton, Amazon is showing that the BD "David Gilmour: Remember That Night" is 1080i. Is there a reason it's not 1080p, and will it make much of a difference on a 1080p television?

I wouldn’t worry about the fact that he used 1080i to shoot the concert. Richard Casey’s cam man used the same for Nature’s Journey(which is apparently now arriving in the hands of some reviewers), and I doubt you’ll feel PQ deprived with that feature.

I think more important factors to consider regarding the capture and final effect seen in your home theater are things like the type ($$) of lens used, lighting, electronic shutter setting etc. (The devil’s in the details).

The biggest problem I’ve seen with concerts is that sometimes they are partly shot on film and partly on video and when you try to edit them seamlessly together, the results are often less than satisfying and actually annoying to many people. That shouldn’t be problem with this footage as captured at Royal Albert Hall.

[Papi4baby]

Originally Posted by lokus

paidgeek/insiders,
I don't know if that has been answered before so I apologize ahead of time. Is there any particular reason why Blu-ray supporting studios aren't doing separate encodes at higher bitrates to show the potential superiority in quality for movies released on Blu-ray?

It's been address; WB was approached about it, but didn't care for it.

[H9k_]

So this is where the party is

Any chanse we get to see The bridge on the river Kwai this year?
How about any other classics?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by H9k_

So this is where the party is

Any chanse we get to see The bridge on the river Kwai this year?

Welcome new member.

Re. The Bridge on the River Kwai
This year…………no way.
Plan on being able to purchase it next year.

B.T.W., people tell me that they've actually re-built the bridge over that river since WW II. I think it may even be a tourist destination these days.

[aygie]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Welcome new member.

Re. The Bridge on the River Kwai
This year…………no way.
Plan on being able to purchase it next year.

B.T.W., people tell me that they've actually re-built the bridge over that river since WW II. I think it may even be a tourist destination these days.

You better believe it, my great uncle (rip) was a POW in Kanchanaburi and i went there when i was traveling 4 years ago. Heavy stuff!!

[clyon]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Welcome new member.

Re. The Bridge on the River Kwai
This year…………no way.
Plan on being able to purchase it next year.

B.T.W., people tell me that they've actually re-built the bridge over that river since WW II. I think it may even be a tourist destination these days.

Yes they did, but in steal. They had a 1 hour show about that bridge & the rest of the tracks (Bangkok-Rangoon railway); they interviewed some people that worked on the tracks/bridges/tunels & also interviewed some of the Japanese guards, it was on PBS 'Secrets of the Dead' last week.

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by lokus

paidgeek/insiders,
I don't know if that has been answered before so I apologize ahead of time. Is there any particular reason why Blu-ray supporting studios aren't doing separate encodes at higher bitrates to show the potential superiority in quality for movies released on Blu-ray?

We have asked WB about this, but thier response has been that they intentionally want to keep parity with HD-DVD. I hope this policy changes soon.

[scragham]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Welcome new member.

Re. The Bridge on the River Kwai
This year…………no way.
Plan on being able to purchase it next year.

B.T.W., people tell me that they've actually re-built the bridge over that river since WW II. I think it may even be a tourist destination these days.

holy kee-rap. river kwai and bridge too far are my two favorite old school ww2 movies.

that's great to hear.

[pepar]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Somebody here e-mailed me this link and I really have to publicly respond to this because it again involves the “insider” with connections to press reps at HD DVD friendly studios whom is primarily responsible for my lack of interest in posting on this forum.

It regards my post below that was copied onto the Insider’s Thread of AVS (they truly must be bored over there with no blu-ray insiders left to bash )………….

My response, for the record……………….
No pepar, what is appalling is despite the request for anonymity by paidgeek to the moderators of AVM$ (as documented on page 1 of their Insider’s Thread), Amir intentionally tried to reveal paidgeek’s full name on that forum (by referring to paid by what he thinks is paid’s actual first name) in the same coy fashion that he did with talkst8t in the past. It was the same unprofessional antagonistic behavior repeated by the A-man but, this time it was directed at paidgeek.

The history of the above (with links) is documented either on this Insider’s thread or the thread on this forum only open to actual blu-ray.com members.
I presume the “outing information” was gained by Amir thru contacts at WB or Dolby, certainly not SPE.

Nevertheless, I felt that if Amir is sooo comfortable in disregarding the basic requests of other Insiders on AVM$ by attempting to reveal their identity all over the internet, Amir or anyone else should have no trouble dealing with the knowledge that Amir is at least one executive level below the geek. And the actual point of my reply to you was to enlighten you as to not expect paidgeek to respond to questions as quickly as you might hope for given his real-world responsibilities.

If I were to have simply said that the geek is “busy” it would not nearly have had the same effect. Hell we’re all “busy”.

Anyway the above is all old news, I can’t believe those people are dredging it up all over again nearly one month after the fact.

Even at "neutral" I am to Blu to post on either the AVS insiders thread or their tracking thread. You are correct in the outing charge, but what outraged me was the way Amir picked up the ball and ran with it the way he did. I've read enough to think he saw some partisan advantage in doing so, which is extra appalling. He is a credit to his company. Since many of my few posts here have made their way back *there*, I am purposely leaving that without an emoticon. People can read it any way they chose.

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

We have asked WB about this, but thier response has been that they intentionally want to keep parity with HD-DVD. I hope this policy changes soon.

Are they timid in making enemies (either in the industry and/or with consumers), generally indecisive, or is there internal/corporate conflict over which path to take that's making them toe that line?

I can well understand the motives of Toshiba, Universal, and even Paramount.... Or is it perhaps the cost of production that's making a separate master prohibitive, as has been implied before? Is the cost of mastering for Blu-ray / HDDVD significant? My general understanding has been that the costs was that it was something being done for DVD anyway...

[Papi4baby]

I think the biggest thing with WB and the encodes, is that it would cost money to re-encoded the film just for BD to take advantage of its bandwith and capacity. That is the only thing that i think would keep them from just making one encode and sending that to the replicators.
That's what it comes down to it, money. And not because it is more expensive to do a BD encode than a HDDVD encode, maybe a bit more. But since they make the encode to fit to HDDVD standards and is already HD they believe that that is all that is required.


Something else to ask to the insiders, if they have the VC-1 encoded to fit on an HDDVD, and they re-encoded to take advantage of BD capacity and bandwith does it affect the encode picture(Quality)in a way that time has to be spent tweeking it again? If so how about offering to do some re-encodes for them for free for BD only to see the difference, maybe that will change their mind? Hint hint.

[goenkar]

Originally Posted by pepar

Even at "neutral" I am to Blu to post on either the AVS insiders thread or their tracking thread. You are correct in the outing charge, but what outraged me was the way Amir picked up the ball and ran with it the way he did. I've read enough to think he saw some partisan advantage in doing so, which is extra appalling. He is a credit to his company. Since many of my few posts here have made their way back *there*, I am purposely leaving that without an emoticon. People can read it any way they chose.

Amir is warlock, always stirring the pot. Its amazing how someone supposedly at his level has so much time to respond to posts 24x7, even when out of the country (something he never fails to point out) .

[WickyWoo]

Amir is warlock, always stirring the pot. Its amazing how someone supposedly at his level has so much time to respond to posts 24x7, even when out of the country (something he never fails to point out)

Because it's part of his job?

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

We have asked WB about this, but thier response has been that they intentionally want to keep parity with HD-DVD. I hope this policy changes soon.

It's nice that WB wants to take care of their HD DVD brethren, but what about Blu?

WB still has a lot of titles exclusively on HD DVD so their not keeping parity with HD DVD too well in this respect.

Edit:
I really do think WB is one of the studios in the forefront, but I can see the IME excuse coming from Warner again in regards to my statement above. If WB wanted parity then maybe they should release all titles w/o IME so this way both HD DVD and Blu-ray can truely be equal ... it's just a thought.