I THINK I have a solution to the format war! REALLY!

[tron3]

Want to hear about this from some of your guys "in the know".

Think of how hard drives work for a moment. They capacities on that same 5-1/4" platter varies a lot these days, but the sector size and access method is the same. No different with blu-ray and HD-DVD. Essentially, by formating HD-DVD to blu-ray sector sizes, you essentially just get a smaller capacity blu-ray disc! Now it just comes down to the codecs and compression.

Now get this, that means HD-DVD(2 aka HD-Disc) would be COMPLETELY compatible with blu-ray players. It's just the capacity of the disc size that changed. Still cheap to make, and the dual layer 30GB version will gives acceptable PQ. How is it much different from the movie offerings we see on a single 25GB disc? Except for the layers, none?

Yes, I know that could mean suffering on the overal quality on some movies, but it COULD be a loophole for us to see Paramount and Dreamworks movies on HD-Disc, yet playable on blu-ray. Studios will have a choice which to use.

Sure, it could be confusing for a while, but you change the box. "HD-Disc: Compatible with blu-ray!" Or some such thing. It is technically feasible. Isn't it? Once they are in the blu-ray camp, just a matter of time before they phase it out. Cheaper, smaller capacity blu-ray has to have some kind of market advantage.

[SS316SRV]

I have a better solution to the format war - Toshiba goes out of business.

[w_tanoto]

Originally Posted by SS316SRV

I have a better solution to the format war - Toshiba goes out of business.

toshiba just used their money to buy studio's format....and still their sales are behind blu. but remember that dvd royalties goes to them. since last week, i avoid dvd whenever possible.

[Sonny]

I have not bought DVD since blu-ray came out ,thats over a year

[CptGreedle]

Well there is also HDi and BD-j, and the requirement differences in BD players and HD-DVD players...

[Blue]

The incomparability between the two formats has NOTHING to do with formatting. In relation to the disc it's all to do with the focus of the laser, something HDD don't have to contend with. This is the fundamental difference for a guide have a look at http://www.blu-raydisc.com/general_i...566/Index.html
The codecs are the same, however the control mechanism is totally different HDi vs Java. This proposal is technically impossible, no matter how many firmware patches you threw at both systems.

[CptGreedle]

The only way it would work would be to.. release dual platform players.. which they have done and are too expensive and don't support all the features of both formats yet....
if it was possible to make Blu-ray or HD-DVD players run both through an upgrade, that would be AWESOME.. but impossible since they use different chipsets, et al, and would have to be installed.

[jedisinclair]

Originally Posted by w_tanoto

remember that dvd royalties goes to them. since last week, i avoid dvd whenever possible.

Amen to that! I too will only buy Blu-ray movies from here on out.

[w_tanoto]

Originally Posted by jedisinclair

Amen to that! I too will only buy Blu-ray movies from here on out.

well, except jungle book, which will be DVD-only. I had hoped it will be BD as well

[tron3]

Originally Posted by Blue

The incomparability between the two formats has NOTHING to do with formatting. In relation to the disc it's all to do with the focus of the laser, something HDD don't have to contend with. This is the fundamental difference for a guide have a look at http://www.blu-raydisc.com/general_i...566/Index.html
The codecs are the same, however the control mechanism is totally different HDi vs Java. This proposal is technically impossible, no matter how many firmware patches you threw at both systems.

Not convinced yet. If the substrate is blank, what is the difference once you burn, or press into it? Not saying it should be HD-DVD compatible at all. HD-Disc could in theory become a new kind of medium for smaller capacity sample, or demo discs. But this is why I am asking you guys.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by tron3

Think of how hard drives work for a moment. They capacities on that same 5-1/4" platter varies a lot these days, but the sector size and access method is the same. No different with blu-ray and HD-DVD. Essentially, by formating HD-DVD to blu-ray sector sizes, you essentially just get a smaller capacity blu-ray disc! Now it just comes down to the codecs and compression.

There's more to it than that. The focus depth, track pitch, the error correction coding, PRML, and other physical and logical issues prevent an HD DVD simply reading a modified BD disc modified to HD DVD capacity, assuming the BD drive can even read such a modified disc.

Gary

[tron3]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

There's more to it than that. The focus depth, track pitch, the error correction coding, PRML, and other physical and logical issues prevent an HD DVD simply reading a modified BD disc modified to HD DVD capacity, assuming the BD drive can even read such a modified disc.

Gary

Ok, but they both use a blue/ultraviolet laser, so reading them is not a problem. I guess I was just looking for a way to turn them into low capacity BD. When you look at DOS, Windows and UNIX machines, they all use the same hardware, just formated differently. Would make an interesting experiement.

[zombieking]

Yes, I know that could mean suffering on the overal quality on some movies, but it COULD be a loophole for us to see Paramount and Dreamworks movies on HD-Disc, yet playable on blu-ray. Studios will have a choice which to use.

Tron's quote



So would you buy a movie from Paramount if it had lackluster PQ or SQ? Because I most certainly would not, and to do something like this would confuse the average consumer further.

[SS316SRV]

I would never by anything with HD DVD stamped anywhere on the packaging. That would be like putting a Yugo next to my Corvette and Ferrari...

[Viiincent]

Originally Posted by jedisinclair

Amen to that! I too will only buy Blu-ray movies from here on out.

Well if a movie comes out on HD-DVD i don't buy it at all. But if a movie comes out ONLY on DVD, I buy it..! I know it's an expensive technology and some of these movies will never make it to hd...

[tron3]

Originally Posted by zombieking

Yes, I know that could mean suffering on the overal quality on some movies, but it COULD be a loophole for us to see Paramount and Dreamworks movies on HD-Disc, yet playable on blu-ray. Studios will have a choice which to use.

Tron's quote



So would you buy a movie from Paramount if it had lackluster PQ or SQ? Because I most certainly would not, and to do something like this would confuse the average consumer further.

Well, in essence I don't expect the name to really be HD-DVD or "HD-Disc" as I call it. Maybe something like BD-15, or BD-30. Like I said, just lower capacity blu-ray discs. Was looking for a way to make smaller capacity blu-ray using the cheaper DVD manufacture process.

This is all a major "thought experiment". Doesn't mean something will come from it.

[zombieking]

Originally Posted by tron3

Well, in essence I don't expect the name to really be HD-DVD or "HD-Disc" as I call it. Maybe something like BD-15, or BD-30. Like I said, just lower capacity blu-ray discs. Was looking for a way to make smaller capacity blu-ray using the cheaper DVD manufacture process.

This is all a major "thought experiment". Doesn't mean something will come from it.

That just sounds like we should settle for something less. It's great to churn out different ideas, but right now the only way the war will be won in blu's favor is for us to show our support and keep buying titles.

A little off topic, but I went into the city with a friend of mine. While shopping I bought Underworld: Unrated, We Are Marshall, and Remember The Titans. He said he wants to see the Marshall movie. I told him if he had a bluray player that I'd let him borrow it for the weekend. So what does he do? We go to Costco and he puts a PS3 in his cart.

"ok, I've got my bluray player." he said. "Now let me borrow that movie"
People like him will help us win this war!

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Originally Posted by tron3

Ok, but they both use a blue/ultraviolet laser, so reading them is not a problem. I guess I was just looking for a way to turn them into low capacity BD. When you look at DOS, Windows and UNIX machines, they all use the same hardware, just formated differently. Would make an interesting experiement.

Think of it like someone trying to read a paper without glasses when they need them to read. How can they read the paper if it's out of focus? That's part of the problem.

[tron3]

Ok, lots of good speculation answers based on a speculative technology. I just wish I could get a more technically complete answer.

[Shadowself]

Originally Posted by tron3

Ok, lots of good speculation answers based on a speculative technology. I just wish I could get a more technically complete answer.

A complete answer is not necessary. There does not even need to be any speculation.

The most basic layer in HD DVD is at the center of the disk -- approximately 0.6 mm deep. Both single and dual layer HD DVD use this layer for data. (Even the truly speculative triple layer HD DVD disks use this layer.)

The LASER to read either (or both depending upon how you look at it) of the layers on a dual layer Blu-ray disk for Blu-ray players doesn't focus any where near that deeply into the disk as the data layers for Blu-ray Disks are no where near that deep into the disk. The Blu-ray disk optics are intentionally focused closer to the surface to allow for higher densities per layer.

The bottom line is that the light from the Blu-ray player LASER cannot even read the bottom HD DVD layer. At that depth the LASER from a Blu-ray player is so out of focus as to be not usable.

The physical mechanisms (LASER optical focus, etc.) of HD DVD and Blu-ray make them physically *not* compatible. Period.