The Official Energy Speakers Thread

[callas01]

Originally Posted by slimmer

Callas - Thank you, thank you!

Went back last night for something completely unrelated; at least thats what I told the better-half. I've listened to a few in the last few months.

For some reason, FS has been rather light in Energy floor standing models lately. Staff tried to push some Klipsch RF-10 at me (floor models, 4 months old, full warranty) for an incredible price, but I found them rather..."tinny".

Listened to the Polk RTIA5s and found it not unlike the CF-50s, but preferred that Energy speakers as they were most definitely warmer than the Polks and...what I felt...a nicer bottom end. That said, I've always thought Energys sounded brighter than other brands. They performed well with acoustic as well as grungy/electronic music. Neither here nor there really, as my system is 90/10 movies/music.

And yes, I immediately started looking at a new centre! CC-10 is a possibility, but I also want to look at the RC mini 2-way.

Also picked up the YDS-11 iPod dock for my avr - with the most convoluted set-up I've ever seen.

brighter really? Wow, because aside from the Dali's I have always thought of them as being warm when compared to Polk, KEF, Monitor Audio, B&W, Paradigm, Klipsch, Def Tech, I have always felt that they are along the way of Jamo, Mirage, etc. The Dali's were really warm to me.... but I like that.

RC mini I am sure could work, but you would have to see if it was properly timbre matched. Plus the dual 5.5" drivers to me would seem to push more air as opposed to the 4.5" drivers on the Mini. Thats up to you though.

[slimmer]

Originally Posted by callas01

brighter really?

Let me rephrase that as it came out wrong: I find the CFs brighter than the usual Energy as a brand, specifically compared to the RC models. Which works out well, as I would lean more towards the right amount of brightness than to warmth if you twisted my arm to choose. Centre will have to wait for a while; at least until the in-laws visit and come bearing gift certificates...

[callas01]

Originally Posted by slimmer

Let me rephrase that as it came out wrong: I find the CFs brighter than the usual Energy as a brand, specifically compared to the RC models. Which works out well, as I would lean more towards the right amount of brightness than to warmth if you twisted my arm to choose. Centre will have to wait for a while; at least until the in-laws visit and come bearing gift certificates...

AWESOME

So you actually do prefer the brighter sound over the warmer laid back sound most people know Energy to have.

ALso, is it bright, or just more in your face? like forward sounding. You said you listened to the Polk RTI's too, were they brighter or warmer then those?

Sorry to bombard you with questions, I just havent seen those speakers anywhere locally or heard them so I am curious.

[Cpt_Dylan_Hunt]

Callas,

Not sure if you checked out that link I posted ealier (and not sure if I'm even aloud to post other forum links here ...), but it's probably the best discussion and review of the new connoiseur line I have seen on a message board so far. It's regarding CB20s though, being compared to RC10s, and many other speakers in a direct comparison.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=99457

Thought it may tie over your curiosity untill Slimmer replies back lol!

[slimmer]

In these speakers, yes; I do prefer the brighter sound as they deliver a more well-rounded sound. They were definitely more balanced than the RTIs and just sounded more...substantial, eventhough they're physically smaller. Does that make sense?

This all said while listening in a showroom 15' wide, 12' tall with no back wall, so...

[BigAl87]

Originally Posted by callas01

brighter really? Wow, because aside from the Dali's I have always thought of them as being warm when compared to Polk, KEF, Monitor Audio, B&W, Paradigm, Klipsch, Def Tech, I have always felt that they are along the way of Jamo, Mirage, etc. The Dali's were really warm to me.... but I like that.

RC mini I am sure could work, but you would have to see if it was properly timbre matched. Plus the dual 5.5" drivers to me would seem to push more air as opposed to the 4.5" drivers on the Mini. Thats up to you though.

I would much prefer to go with CC-10 because I don't think it will be a good timber match here, I stated that the new Conoisseur are defenately brighter than the old one and as Cpt. mentionned here, old C-series did not have that much of difference in sound to rc and that includes the rc-mini so the rc-mini would be to warm for them.

Slimmer you will defenately get a better front sound stage with the cc-10 i would understand an RC-mini center if you had rc-10 bookshelfs as fronts.

[BigAl87]

Originally Posted by Cpt_Dylan_Hunt

Callas,

Not sure if you checked out that link I posted ealier (and not sure if I'm even aloud to post other forum links here ...), but it's probably the best discussion and review of the new connoiseur line I have seen on a message board so far. It's regarding CB20s though, being compared to RC10s, and many other speakers in a direct comparison.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=99457

Thought it may tie over your curiosity untill Slimmer replies back lol!

Cpt this guy made an amzing writeup on em and you see this is the kind of language barrier I was talking about but you were right still in your reply to me, I guess it's a bit of both . Indeed brighter than the old ones but never harsh as this guy mentioned wich i find makes it an excellent compromised between music and HT. This guy describes the speaker exactly how I was trying to describe it and make this conoisseur sound closer to what they sounded like a couple generations ago I beleive.


Man this is a friggin nice and concise writup.

[callas01]

Originally Posted by BigAl87

Cpt this guy made an amzing writeup on em and you see this is the kind of language barrier I was talking about but you were right still in your reply to me, I guess it's a bit of both . Indeed brighter than the old ones but never harsh as this guy mentioned wich i find makes it an excellent compromised between music and HT. This guy describes the speaker exactly how I was trying to describe it and make this conoisseur sound closer to what they sounded like a couple generations ago I beleive.


Man this is a friggin nice and concise writup.

And he did it right too. He compared them to what he knew, and to something else in an environment that he was familiar with.

[Yautja]

Originally Posted by Cpt_Dylan_Hunt

Callas,

Not sure if you checked out that link I posted ealier (and not sure if I'm even aloud to post other forum links here ...), but it's probably the best discussion and review of the new connoiseur line I have seen on a message board so far. It's regarding CB20s though, being compared to RC10s, and many other speakers in a direct comparison.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=99457

Thought it may tie over your curiosity untill Slimmer replies back lol!

The page aint loading up for me I wonder if the review has been removed ?

[callas01]

I just re-pulled it up. It should load up for you. It was a pretty well written reveiw by someone that is not a pro.

[Cpt_Dylan_Hunt]

Yeah, it's not a pro review, like I said in that other post, but it is probaby the best writeup on the new connoiseur line I have seen by a poster on a message board.

Just follow the posts by "WiredRacing" in that thread.

Since there isn't many people who own the new line around here, I figured that thread may be of use to some people who want some gneral opinions on the line, outside of the pro reviews.

It's really well done though.

[Yautja]

Originally Posted by callas01

I just re-pulled it up. It should load up for you. It was a pretty well written reveiw by someone that is not a pro.

For some reason people outside the U.S cannot see the link & being from Aussie doesn't help, love to read the review if you can copy & paste

[callas01]

Here

I've recently auditioned the RC-10 and CB-20's side by side (literally) at a quiet futureshop with a friend and both of us intepreted what we heard the same. The room they were in was open ended, but did have 3 walls to it and they were setup a few feet from the side walls, so it's about as good as you can get in a futureshop.

We spread the speakers out to about 7-8 feet apart and stood what we believed was about 10 feet back. Though most of our impressions were also noticable when we were the ones doing the electronic switching within a couple feet of the speakers.

The CB-20's have a much wider soundstage and vocals from them were more immediate with a greater feeling of in-room presence. The speakers sounded impressively large despite having roughly the same volume as the RC-10's. Switching back to the RC-10's the soundfield compressed inwards a good few feet. Movie soundtrack differences at times were not as noticable but in most scenes there was a difference, of course we didn't have vocals coming from them as they were (obviously) not setup as a centre at FS, hence the music I used to hear vocals.

I've since picked up a pair to audition in my space (more or less to assure me the upgrade is justified) and I'll be running them along side my current Infinity Floorstanding RS5's and a Pair of similarly sized/featured Paradigms (I don't know the model off hand, they're the friends speakers).

That said, someone made a point about how I should have A/B's them at the same calibrated level. Spec wise the CB-20's have 1db more sensitivity. Though frankly, I don't see 1db causing what we heard back to back with the RC-10's.

Anyhow, I'll post more about them after I do the in-home auditioning.

[callas01]

Again

Okay so I spent a couple hours with the speakers last night.

FYI, the Paradigms are Mini Mk3's and the Energy's were out of the box during this testing, still not broken in.

I calibrated and listened to the material around 80-85db's so as to not overdrive the Energy's out of the box.

I listened to a number of tracks of Bjork's Vespertine (lots of highs and mids, clear vocals and various production elements moving backing vocals around the soundstage). I also listened to a number of tracks of an IASCA (car audio competition) CD including stuff like excerpts from John Williams Star Wars soundtrack. Everything in Stereo. Sub turned off on the amp, A/B speaker switching. Though the bookshelfs were only attached with smaller 16-18ish guage speaker wire while I use 12 for all my current stuff (but I don't have any extra).

I never tested the Paradigms directly against the Energy's, switching was between the RS5's and each bookshelf.

My findings (after realizing I had the Paradigm Left Channel connections reversed) were as follows:

Infinity RS5: Very full sound. Highs are a little on the edgy side. Maybe some would consider it bright though it's not piercing. More depth to the mids. On a sax heavy track on the IASCA disc the sax tone did not vary too much. I would say these speakers aren't terribly dynamic. But again, they have a very full sound. They fill the room with sound across the frequency range. One thing I did notice with these speakers though was if I was not directly in the middle of both speakers, I would loose some sound from the right speaker. Leaning over a few inches, I could hear a wall of sound come into my right ear. It's possible these speakers should be toe'd in a bit. I did not find this necessary with the others.

Actually more on the full sound, a few times (after calibration) I thought maybe the songs were playing louder on this speaker so I would A/B a place in the song with the DB meter going and sure enough they were playing to roughly the same average and peak. But perhaps their positioning in the room was optimal and they were getting better reflections. Perhaps off the back wall?!

Paradigms: Not as efficient so I had to adjust the volume to match the dB level of the other two speakers. These speakers are just as wide and long as the RS5's (though not as tall, of course). These couldn't be used in my space anyhow as they're rear ported and the port would be within 1 inch of my wall (I'm using an Acoustically Transparent screen and I only have 15" to work with.. which is largely why I'm looking to replace my LCR setup). During the sax track, there are notes which play unmistakenly lower (baritone?) out of these as opposed to the Infinity RS5's. Now... what IS that sound supposed to sound like?

Energy CB-20s: Every time I listened to these with vocal-front tracks, I would get chills after a few seconds. I did not feel this with the other two speakers. This could be a placebo effect though as the electronic switching does take longer than the FS switching did and it was more difficult to pinpoint the changes. These played the sax track the same way as the Paradigms. Though fortunately I didn't have to adjust the volume when switching from the RS5's to these. There were many a time these speakers sounded better than the Infinity's, but then I'd switch to the infinity's and the sound got a lot fuller. Though the impending question is... can the sound be too full?

A lot of the tracks for the IASCA disc have a diagram of where you should hear the instruments playing in the soundstage. All speakers were in the vicinity of where things should be. Though the RS5's would sometimes play something that should be Front-Centre to just off to the right... Again, this could be room acoustics coming into play. It's also fairly minor considering most of my listening will be with films and a centre channel playing anyhow. But I didn't want matching coming into play, and besides A/B comparisons on my receiver would not support multichannel audio (other than the Sub) on the B setting.

On a soundstage track to show imaging, a snare is played 7 times, Far Left, Left, Mid-Left, Centre, Mid-Right, Right, Far Right. The acoustics of the room on all speakers made Right and Far Right sound just about the same. However on this speaker Far Left and Left were only minor changes. on the RS5's. I didn't run this track with the paradigms hooked up, but on the CB-20's there was a slightly more noticable change in positioning.

Ultimately I'm fairly content with the Infinity's and their slight shortcomings and benefits are ideal for the majority of my listening, movies (and games), but logistically; considering the rear port is only 1" from the wall, compression must be happening. The centre channel does not match the L/R mains (different model and orientation), so tonal matching has got to be off somewhat. Also they are 36-40" high and very heavy making positioning them behind the screen a bit of a task.. more engineering needed for the shelf.

The Energy's are very capable and I've been braking them in since then and will do some more A/B with them at movie-listening levels with them loosened up now and it should seal the deal on my decision as they should only sound better after a good 24 hours of break-in (manual says 100, most comments I've heard say Energy's with these kevlar woofers are good 12ish hours in). Plus they are a smaller speaker all around, giving me 4" to the wall from the Port and of course substantially lighter (though heavier than the paradigms). Also I expect putting the thicker speaker wire on them will round them out a bit better too. Though can they handle centre channel duty without getting over taxed? I don't know. Though I will hook one up as a centre to see if they're going to cut it. Since they're so good at vocals.. or at least Bjorks vocals, I expect them to shine as a centre.

So, some more comments to come.

[callas01]

Again

Just in case anyone comes across this in a search.

I ended up picking up 2 more pairs of the CB-20's. (6 speakers total) (Which likely means I'll be trying to sell 1 since the vast majority of soundtracks are back to 5.1)

I've only put them through a few movies so far, but so far I'm fairly pleased.

I must say though, the process of moving the speakers behind the screen didn't yield the significant improvement I once thought it would. (keep in mind based on how I mounted my old screen and new screen my center has really only moved within a foot or so of where it was to begin with). So, YMMV.

However it's far sexier looking to have them hidden which no doubt helps with the immersion.

Watched The Dark Knight the other night (wow those IMAX sequences have to be the best images I've seen yet) and the sound was great, but mostly because, I didn't notice the sound. I didn't at any time think, "Too Loud" or "Not Loud Enough". I guess that's what they call "immersion"

During the demo stuff after I broke them in (before buying the 2nd and 3rd pair), I threw on Bourne Ultimatum and the streets/chase scene (from whatever the country was.. been a while since I watched the movie front to back). .anyhow, excellent sound in that movie. We watched the sequence at least a half dozen times and the CB-20's had some serious punch to them where the Mini MK3's weren't too far behind and then the Infinity's were just a bit of an assault. My friend remarked the CB-20's sounded like they were coming from the screen, but the Infinity's soundstage was much more forward, maybe half way between the screen and the listener. I would have to agree. I think that's where the feeling that the Infinity's have a much fuller sound comes into play. Still a good speaker, especially if you're not paying attention, but when you do, they're just much edgier/harsh than the Energy's. I think I could listen to the Energy's even louder than when we watched TDK and it wouldn't hurt while still outputting the same db's. If it were still the Infinitys I think it would have felt like "okay, that's enough" if they were driven any further.

Anyhow I still have a couple weeks to make a final decision, get in a few more films... but in the end, these ones are small(er), light(er), they fit properly behind the screen (2" in front, 4" behind), they're the same speaker all around and they sound good... I just wish they were front ported.

The RS5's are doing well, repurposed in the living room for music which is an improvement over those tiny Logitech Z-5500 speakers. They should do well to fill the first floor with sound for partys.

[callas01]

Another

Sorry, I didn't catch your question (I think my email notifications are being blocked).

I, in no way, found the CB-20's to be harsh.

In Futureshop when I A/B'd the RC10 and CB-20's it was off a Yamaha receiver. No idea the model #. My receiver is a Pioneer VSX-812 (or something like that).

The music I used in the store was very high frequency intensive. I suppose I could see one persions intepretation of clarity in the high end as harsh for someone else. Though I would say my Infinity RS5's were "harsh" compared to the CB-20's.

Judging overall sound quality in a warehouse is really just an exercise in futility. Best I could do was find a speaker that was able to shine above the others and then judge soundquality in a much more controlled environment.

Since there was such a drastic difference between the two, it seemed pointless to also bring the RC-10's home.

In an ideal world though I'd have brought those, the PSB Image b25's and KEF iQ3's home, but that wasn't gonna happen.

In the end... I got all 3 pairs for $279/pr, so any mild pro or con is washed out by saving over $400 (about 1/3rd) of the price of the same setup of RC-10's.

The biggest selling point (outside the price) here is the soundstage. I bought them for a primarily Home Theatre setup. Soundstage is very important for immersion as is vocal reproduction. As mentioned, sung vocals were chill inducing with the CB-20's over the RC-10's.. I dont' know what more can trump an involuntary physical reaction?! And I wasn't the only one to react this way.

Now.. maybe if I'm looking for a 2.0 setup.. maybe the RC-10's have better overall quality. Maybe. I don't know. And maybe just by nature of design, there's no way a 5.5" woofer is going to outshine a 6.5" woofer in the mids. The biggest difference here is the kevlar and the 1" in the woofer. You're probably paying more for the kevlar. I dunno.

They work for me, my ears and my setup and it's a bonus they went 20% off.

I found every speaker I listened to had it's pro's and con's. I chose the ones that seemed to have the least compromise.

[callas01]

here again

So.. to reiterate.

I do not find the CB-20's to be too much or over the top in the high end, I believe they are very clean sounding, there's lots of detail there. I do not feel fatigue listening to them as I would normally associate with bright or harsh speakers. I hear things with the CB-20's I did not hear previously with my Infinity RS5's. I believe they provide a immersive soundfield and that the RC-10's do not envelop you in sound. Those speakers sound small, the CB-20's sound big. Even in a multichannel setup if the sound coming from your speakers is thin, you may end up with off-axis imaging problems or voids of sound. I'd rather have some overlap, I believe it to be more seamless this way. But I suppose you could go overboard and then the imaging would suffer and become vague. I haven't noticed that with my setup at this time. And it's entirely possible if you want a stereo music reproduction setup (audiophile setup) the RC-10's may be more true to the recording environment than the CB-20's, I don't know, therefore it's a possibility to explain others love for the speaker.

Audio playback is a very subjective thing. My biggest reason for posting anything about these speakers is when I was listening to these I was looking for sources online (mobile browser) to back up what I was hearing. There was nothing at all to be found on these speakers (other than your question and some press releases). So I wanted to at least provide an opinion on them for the next guy like me faced with the choice or at least a differing opinion that the RC-10's aren't the slamdunk I thought they would be based on others opinions. Many will just purchase based on others opinions and then the placebo effect will tell them they made a good decision. I mean, how else can you explain Pontiac Sunfires on the road?

I can at least say, I compared these to the RC-10's in an uncontrolled environment and to me and 1 other person with me (who takes his music fairly seriously) both heard and felt the same things. I then compared these along with 2 other speakers in a controlled environment, with each set calibrated for loudness and of the 3, I can easily say these were the best all around speaker of the 3. And that's really all I'm saying.

In the end, I would only use opinions as a guide to weed out the crap and form a plan of attack. In this process I listened to Alpha's... they may be a great speaker in a small space but they would be useless for my application as we activated each speaker in PSB's lineup going up Alpha B1's, Image b15's, Image b25's, the sound got better. A "you get what you pay for" situation.

Based on FS's pricing, the Energy's were different. It was surprising but we are talking about an older model vs a newly introduced model.

Anyhow...

As always.. YMMV.

[callas01]

and a different person here too.

According to current Energy literature the RC series still slots in above the CB series. RC is their top end while CB is their mid-range that slots in between C-Series.


I didn't have an opportunity to audio the CB-20 in any environment where I dare to pass judgment on them however from inspecting them they do seem to be built to a slightly cheaper level then RC-10. For example energy seemed to have abandoned their chambered tweeter construction that they used in the old Connoisseur series. That is easy to see by just looking into the phase inverter and you can see the tweeter there. You will notice both the C-Series and the RC series chamber the tweeter while the new CB series appeared to have ceased doing so.

Also you will notice how much larger the tweeter magnet structure in the RC series is versus say the CB and the C-series. Also I think RC-10 is heavier then CB-20.

While I would need to take a CB-20 home to compare it to RC-10 as there are various advancements of technology over time that do improve the 'lower line speakrs'. All signs from inspecting the speaker including Energy's own documentation point to RC series still being in a slot above new CB series.

And indeed when comparing for fullness make sure to keep in mind that comparing RC-10 to CB-20 is pointless since you're comparing a 5.5 inch driver to a 6.5 inch driver. The bigger driver will sound fuller with more presence. But RC-10 should offer superior detail and precision with somewhat less oomph.

Also keep in mind for a more proper test where the superior low end performance of the CB-20 won't overshadow their 'musical' characteristics you should have compared the CB-10 to RC-10 which both feature same size 5.5 inch woofer.

Having said all that: Since audio is all about what you hear testing speakers by ear and taking the one you like is in fact the correct approach to selecting a speaker. So in that sense "WiredRacing" has actually followed the proper procedure in his setup with whatever means he had available.

It would be great if he could take home both and compare but it's a lot of hassle that simply might not be something he can afford timewise or moneywise at this time.

[jjmbxkb]

Hi, everyone: I have been, and still am, in the process of finishing up my basement HT/media area construction. I've got a lot of help from people on this forum.

Right now, I am thinking about getting 2 RC-MINI's as my back surrounds. I noticed the frequency response range for RC-MINI is from 80 hz up. My question is will I be OK if I set the X-over on the receiver to be 80 hz, or should I go up to 100 or 120?

I currently have RC 70's as mains, RC-LCR as center, RC-R's as side surrounds.

Thanks very much.

[Elandyll]

Hi!

I have found the Energy Take 5 Classic pack at $149 at Newegg.com

Is that a good deal, and would this ensemble marry well with a Polk Audio CSW10 sub (that I already have) ?

Thanks!