HDMI Cables

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by [1080-p]

its still better picture quality i've seen because other cables didn't have all the details that i'm seeing now

There is no difference in picture quality at the distances you're describing, only cable build. Sorry, but those are facts.

[Canada]

Originally Posted by [1080-p]

Had belkin which was ok 2 meters

also had plain black no-name types and white ones that was under $10.
through them in garbage because i found them horrible

I have a $ 80 Belkin cable bought before I knew any better, and I am using the free HDMI cable that came with my OPPO BD83. I do not notice any difference between the two. Actually know that I think about it I do, I notice the extra $89.60 missing from my bank account.

[curse]

man i thought he was joking at first but he kept going on and on about monster..

Read the freaking stickies and have some good consumer judgment.

[Chizzap30]

None of these most recent posts have really contributed to the conversation what so ever.

So if this post is going to continue how about actually contributing something worth while. I'm tired of people who try to tell me what they perceive is wrong. If someone perceives a difference then leave it at that. It makes not sense to try to make yourself the authority over someone else's experience/perception.

And one of the main arguments that many people are still making on this post is that there is no proof that cables make a difference in picture/audio quality, therefore they do not. This is the fallacy of Argument from Ignorance.

[[1080-p]]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

There is no difference in picture quality at the distances you're describing, only cable build. Sorry, but those are facts.

thats very narrow minded of you
well i can see the difference between what i did own and what i have now! period!

after all i'm the one watching it and seeing more then did I did before

[[1080-p]]

Originally Posted by Chizzap30

None of these most recent posts have really contributed to the conversation what so ever.

So if this post is going to continue how about actually contributing something worth while. I'm tired of people who try to tell me what they perceive is wrong. If someone perceives a difference then leave it at that. It makes not sense to try to make yourself the authority over someone else's experience/perception.

And one of the main arguments that many people are still making on this post is that there is no proof that cables make a difference in picture/audio quality, therefore they do not. This is the fallacy of Argument from Ignorance.

person has to experience it themselves

you can go to any hometheatre store and see how lousy plain hdmi look
and say where is highdef

[Blu_Dude]

For those who use HDMI to route through audio systems, what HDMI cable do you use? I have handshaking problems with my cables (one 8' and one 4' cable).

[Driver_King]

Originally Posted by [1080-p]

person has to experience it themselves

you can go to any hometheatre store and see how lousy plain hdmi look
and say where is highdef

You speak as if we have no experience with HDMI cables. I've done side-by-side comparisons with my Monoprice cables, generic internet brand HDMI cables, and another "high-quality" HDMI cable and have seen and heard zero differences. I know other people have done the same. Where have you done your cable comparisons? Oh wait. You haven't...

[blindcat87]

Here is the problem. I and others have given you fact. Cold hard, scientific FACT. I am not just referring to arguments over whether or not certain cables CAN make a difference or not, because there is ample evidence that in some cases they can and in some cases they cannot. I am talking about information on why comparisons with time gap between the viewing or listening CANNOT be depended on and why, by human biology this is fact and is completely and totally unavoidable. You say you see it and it is so. But people wandering in the desert very clearly and in detail see water on the horizon, often see sights that are hundreds of miles away brought to them by the optical illusion of the desert and the limitations of the human sensory system. What I gave you is science, anyone taking an intro to perception course, a sense and sensation course, a brain and behavior course, and a basic neuropsychology course can tell you this. It is the way the brain and the eyes and ears are wired. It is fact, it is constant between all human beings within a very limited level of variability, it is fact. To use your words... period. Unless you A/B test the cables in a way that allows you to compare within literally a second or two, you cannot claim with any validity to have seen any difference unless the difference was so vast as to have been the difference between static ridden analog television and clear digital cable, the difference between major artifacts and a clean image, not simply color improvements and finer detail. You can deny this all you want but it does not change the fact any more than denying gravity will allow you to cross the Grand Canyon without a bridge, you cannot change biology any more than you can change physics. People who see optical illusions or hear audial illusions believe they hear and see what they think they did. It does not make it so.

I, once again, am not among those who say there is absolutely no difference between any cables. But first off, as I said, you cannot compare without taking into account the time limit of comparison, after that point your brain is filling in the details the way you want them to turn out and you see what you want to see, not what is actually there. Second, in the case of Monster HDMI cables, as has been pointed out about a hundred times, the cable is the exact same wire as other brands, and for that matter throughout the different Monster lines. Not similar, the same exact copper from the same exact lines. The differences between the lines are gauge, the tests run to certify the cable, and the wrappers. That is it. Again, period. This is well documented, Monster tried to file a suit against those who put out this information and dropped it because they had no grounds and would have had to disclose more facts about their HDMI product than they wanted to in order to try to push a suit that was doomed from the start. Links to all of this information are in several places throughout this thread.

You say nobody is contributing to this thread, but the bottom line of debate from the "vast improvement" crowd is to absolutely ignore the facts and post "Nope, I saw it." without any attempt to address the points of fact. Nobody cares to explain how the same copper improves with a particular brand's jacket covering it, we just pretend that we all have super senses that defy human biology and that we are immune to the brain's mechanisms for filling gaps in information and in sensory memory and we pretend we are immune from the effects of expectations. Everyone else is just ignorant with their science and facts and little bits of foolishness like that. None of them have ever experienced the joy of X brand and so on. Guess what? A lot of us fell into the trap of various overpriced brands, we HAVE compared them ourselves, and not in some sterile lab environment, in our own systems, in our own homes. Anyone reading the thread has the right to do what they will with the information provided by others here, accept it, research it further themselves, or ignore it. Anyone also has the right to debate, to make counterpoints, and so on. But do not come in here and tell people who are posting facts, science, legitimate debate here that they are not contributing, particularly not when the sum contribution of the other side of the debate has been the rhetorical equivalent of "Nuh-uh." Do not accuse others of being ignorant when they have at least researched the topic enough to have documented, factual, and often even peer reviewed published academic information to provide. The act of researching and trying to learn more about a topic is the exact opposite of being ignorant.

Once again, to be absolutely clear here, I am noting the right of any poster to disagree with me, to refute any of my points or to just simply ignore them. But as long as people post opinions and debate contrary to the facts I have researched and also my own opinions, I will continue to post my own side of things and doing so is, by definition, contributing to the thread. Ignorance and lack of contribution does not mean "disagrees with me" or "won't admit I am right because I said so."

Respectfully,
chris

Originally Posted by [1080-p]

person has to experience it themselves

[JasonR]

Originally Posted by [1080-p]

person has to experience it themselves

you can go to any hometheatre store and see how lousy plain hdmi look
and say where is highdef

Again, you have private messages. Please respond.

[blujacket]

Originally Posted by Blu_Dude

For those who use HDMI to route through audio systems, what HDMI cable do you use? I have handshaking problems with my cables (one 8' and one 4' cable).

I think handshake issues are component related, not cable related. I have all monoprice hdmi cables and have no problems.

[Zman2k2]

Originally Posted by Blu_Dude

For those who use HDMI to route through audio systems, what HDMI cable do you use? I have handshaking problems with my cables (one 8' and one 4' cable).

It would help to know which componants are having handshaking issues. I know right now, I have a handshake issue with my PS3 slim and my Pioneer receiver. But it is a known issue between the two, not a cable issue.

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by [1080-p]

person has to experience it themselves

you can go to any hometheatre store and see how lousy plain hdmi look
and say where is highdef

LOL. There is nothing to experience. No offense, but your opinions are meaningless and are contrary to all studies/evaluations and measured data. Your highlighted comment above is proof enough that you are confused about what you are looking at and why you are seeing what you are seeing. The pictures on the sets at the stores has NOTHING to do with what HDMI cables they are using.

If you think you see a better picture with an overpriced cable, that's fine. Just don't try to justify this to the rest of us who know better. More importantly, though, is that the newbies to HD/HT don't run out and throw their money away on overpriced cables because they read misguided opinions like this.

[kingofgrills]

Originally Posted by [1080-p]

what are you a comedian

well the picture quality is perfect now considering what I use to watch
with those crappy regular hdmi
blu-ray looked dull and standard with the cheaply made cables

Have some more HDMI flavored Kool-Aid.

Enjoy!

[Driver_King]

That brings up another point that should "add to the discussion". Case in point, "look at the TV's in the store and you can see the picture differences because of the HDMI cables". No, this is completely false. This is one of the reasons why shopping for TV's in the store and judging them on the spot is a terrible idea. If you're already confused about what's up with television lingo and specifications, an uneducated salesman and Monster cable is not going to help. Why did those TV's look different then? Many reasons. Each TV handles colors, resolves different lines of resolution, has different features (such as 120hz), has different factory settings, use different components and boards, use different types of backlighting, ect. Many LCD's and LED's are factory calibrated to be cranked to their max or are oddly set to stand out in the showroom. Do you have industrial lighting in your house and will you have everything set to torch mode? I'd hope not. You should also be aware of the sources that are connected to the televisions. They are low quality HD signals, for the most part, split to multiple TV's, often not connected by HDMI cables. As you can see so far, stores are not the optimal places to judge the quality of a television, especially HDMI cables.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by [1080-p]

thats very narrow minded of you

It's an opinion shared by anyone educated on the matter on the planet. Again, it's just the facts.

[Chizzap30]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

It's an opinion shared by anyone educated on the matter on the planet. Again, it's just the facts.

Opinions are not relevant. Anyone? That's a fallacy of Accident.

[starkent08]

my first hdmi cables were cheap phillips cables then i went to belkin then to monster i noticed a big differece in all three like night and day not necessarily in better picture but in the level of detail and coloring so there is a difference in cables i have compared and i notice it ive also had all my friends have noticed it too any one doubt me come see for yourself

[blindcat87]

No you haven't noticed a difference in fine detail. Your preconceptions and expectations have created a difference in your memory. Refer to my last post on comparisons and the time limit in doing a valid comparison. Unless you have used proper A/B switching, what you are experiencing is the effect of expectations filling in the gaps in visual memory. This is basic human biology, this is how the senses work.

Add to that the information on cable sourcing. Once again, the Monster cables are the exact same wire from the exact same line. Unless you buy cables so cheap that there are problems with the termination or the shielding, it is the exact same stuff. When you get cheap cables with problematic shielding and/or connection, the effect is not loss of detail or color differences, but major artifacts, shimmering, blocky digital artifacting, and dropouts. This is documented fact. Also as has been said before most of us who keep trying to educate others on these facts have actually experienced different cable brands ourselves. I fell into the Monster trap in my early days in the hobby. What I learned, very quickly, was that, while Monster makes some high quality stuff, even with the types of cables where higher quality can make a real difference in picture and/or sound you can get more bang for the buck with other quality brands. So, with other types of cables, you can get more for your money, and with HDMI you just end up with less in your wallet for the same copper as other quality brands with a fancy Monster wrapper all around it. You don't have to take just my word. All of these facts can be found, or even the word of all of the other people who have been posting on this topic. The documentation of these facts is widely available out there. There are tons of links posted in this very thread to all of this information.

Chris

Originally Posted by starkent08

my first hdmi cables were cheap phillips cables then i went to belkin then to monster i noticed a big differece in all three like night and day not necessarily in better picture but in the level of detail and coloring so there is a difference in cables i have compared and i notice it ive also had all my friends have noticed it too any one doubt me come see for yourself

[My_Two_Cents]

Some people just cannot be reasoned with. They refuse to accept facts and hard data over their mind's perception. As I've said before, that's fine. Good for them. They are all welcome to enjoy their perceived improvements in detail, color, etc after throwing their $$ away on overpriced cables.

All I (and everyone else who actually understands the technology) ask is that you NOT try to convince others that your delusions are fact. It's bad enough we have no-knowledge sales people pushing the need for these overpriced cables. We certainly don't need any of that around here where people come for actual FACTS.