"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Alan Gordon]

Originally Posted by Cliff

Unfortunately, art (and movies are certainly art) is usually designed by the people who make it for the spirit.

...and just like art(work), not all art is created equal!

Great post, Cliff!

Originally Posted by SpaceDog

Seems to me that DVD Beaver is frequently cited as a source for "troubling" screenshots. Coincidence?

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Probably not, but this whole "screenshot science" phenomenon wouldn't exist without the infamous "Xylon"

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Wasn't Beaver doing it before Xylon popularized it?

I think DVDBeaver has been posting screen grabs since some time before Blu-ray/HD DVD came about, but I never heard of DVDBeaver until I started posting on Blu-ray.com... long after I had run into Xylon's threads. I don't pay attention to Xylon's threads, but I do enjoy taking a look at DVDBeaver's screen shots... I just know to keep them in perspective.... the perspective being that any screen shot on that site will look better in motion than from a screen shot.... ("Leon" being a possible exception)

~Alan

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by iceman

I'm far from a screenshot scientist but I'm inclined to follow that theory, there seem to be more problems than compression only. For example lots/the majority(?) of screenshots look far too pale.

Additionally, a common problem which I’ve see in some of these *comparison* type threads is the comparing of different frame types……..meaning there is, for instance, a screenshot of a B frame placed adjacent to a screenshot of a I frame for unsuspecting viewers’ 'consideration'.

This is yet another misleading practice (whether intended or not ) and is completely invalid, as B frames are quantized higher than other frame types to save bits and they will visually appear worse in a still image.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by abintra

Congratulations to Sony Pictures Classics for 3 out of the 5 best foreign film nominations for the Golden Globes.

Broken Embraces (Los abrazos rotos) (Spain)
The Country of Spain
El Deseo SA; Sony Pictures Classics

A Prophet (Un Prophete) (France)
The Country of France
Chic Films/Page 114/Why Not Productions; Sony Pictures Classics

The White Ribbon (Das Weisse Band - Eine Deutsche Kindergeschichte) (Germany)
The Country of Germany
X Filme Creative Pool/Les Films Du Losange/Lucky Red; Sony Pictures Classics

Busy day.

[cipher]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Interesting controversy on screenshot science...

http://criterionforum.org/forum/view...245912#p245912

Very interesting thread and it definitely highlights what many have been saying here for a long time regarding system setup and the aquisition approach when recording screenshots.

David Williams actually outlines the proper way to obtain screenshots and then compares an image he captured to the exact scene posted on the review at DVDBeaver. The difference is startling and is a prime example of how poorly representative images can lead the uninformed masses into raising their pitchforks over "poor" encodes when the issue is the the fault of the "reviewer".

What is even more startling is the DVDBeaver reponse to this issue - http://www.dvdbeaver.com/open_respon...ndo_Vision.htm. I don't know if there is a language issue causing a misunderstanding here, but he is definitely not getting it.

Originally Posted by Cliff

I also challenged the scientards to explain the path they follow from acquisition/capture to screenshot

Cliff, wonderful post and I thought your description of the Screenies at AVS was classic! Even my politically correct gf laughed at this one, although she's now started calling me this name as she thinks we're all from the same can of nuts when it comes to this hobby.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Cliff

Ugh, we'll certainly have to agree to disagree. Sitting in the Cinerama Dome opening night for Ultimatum, I wanted to kick Paul Greengrass in the teeth! Shaky for fights and action is one thing. Shaky when someone is just on the phone or two people are just talking at a conference table makes me want to kill myself.

I am glad to see others have the same attitude as I do in regards to shaking the damn camera. For me, it gives films a “cheap” look and disconnects me from the story. Story tellers seem to have forgotten “its what in front of the lens that counts, not the lens itself”. I have ejected many a movie after only a few minutes because of the shooting style, these included Bourne Ultimatum, Bourne Identity, Quantum of Solace, Transformers, American Gangster, Revolver, Into The Wild, Transporter 3, Slumdog Millionaire, Terminator Salvation and many others.

There are several I have watched all the way through but have no desire to watch again because of shaking the camera. These include The Incredible Hulk, Body Of Lies, Star Trek (2009), The Mummy: Tomb Of The Dragon Emperor, The Chronicles Of Riddick, Wanted and others.

[sharkshark]

There's a fundamental difference between "shaky cam" for effect under the hands of a master cameraperson, and the amateur, I-can't-frame-for-crap stuff that's used in lieu of good composition.

Saving Private Ryan is oft cited as effective use of handheld, but for me the definitive is Von Trier's "Breaking the Waves" - it's got a desaturated palate, documentary style, yet has some of the more breathtaking compositions I've ever seen. Give somebody like Robby Müller a VHS cam from the early 80s and I think he'd make it could make it look like some grand tracking shot by Griffith. LVT does lots of his own op'ing as well, and, frankly, a director that put a camera on his shoulder and shoot a scene will make for a far better handheld look than the idiot behind the operator banging on the back of the rig to make some point about "grittyness" or "realism".

Loads of TV series fool around with this type of technique (as Penton pointed out, often done in post with some After Effects-style "shake" pass added for "realism").

Again, when handheld is used stylistically it can be extremely effective... Hell, I almost threw up during Blair Witch, but it clearly was the only real think providing verisimilitude to the work. Cloverfield I've never even bothered with, frank. But when big budget films use it in sheer feats of gratuitousness ("Hello, Michael Bay...") or as pathetic attempts to make action seem more compelling than it is (I'm looking at you, Gladiator) then it, for me, is the cranked autotune equivalent of filmmaking - an annoying fad that's way past its prime, used by idiots in lieu of compelling production techniques.

[Penton-Man]

I received several PM’s from reviewers informing me that they thought the Blu-ray of Public Enemies looked better on their Blu-ray set-ups at home than when they saw the motion picture in commercial theaters.

I already covered that here ………
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...on#post2644016

One PM from this a.m. expressed some concern over some sort of *grid* artifact effect in some scene(s), I think neo_reloaded covered that issue adequately and correctly on the same page (above) and on the next, esp. if you return your copy and you are seeing the same type artifacting with the replacement disc. I had no such PQ issues with my Blu-ray of Public Enemies.

This also brings up the question of how many home theater enthusiasts out there have had their display chain at home checked/calibrated by a professional calibrator?
Also, it should not be assumed that all ISF calibrators are created equal……….just like all Board Certified physicians are not. There is a variance in their experience and skills.....and I would say more so with some calibrators who don't have much or any experience in certain brands or models.

[Penton-Man]

You know, I just realized that I have never really made a contribution to the gamer dudes on this forum.
So, all you guys/gals who are still in the schooling phase, consider this my contribution to your passion. Send in your C.V.’s here………….
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/video?id=7173435

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by blindcat87

Penton,

I am awaiting with great anticipation the arrival of my copy of D9, the early reviews I have read are not helping with the patience quotient. I missed it in the theater because it barely stayed any time in our little 10 screen plex here, so I think I can safely say that this is one of my most anticipated BD releases of the year. I just wanted to ask if the audio track on this release is one of the 96/24 tracks like the excellent 'Leon' soundtrack? From the reviews, the audio is very good, so I am not concerned if it is not, I am just curious.

Thanks, and happy holidays to you and yours,

Chris

Hi Chris.
The English audio on D9 is 24bit 48khz DTS-HDMA.

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

There's a fundamental difference between "shaky cam" for effect under the hands of a master cameraperson, and the amateur, I-can't-frame-for-crap stuff that's used in lieu of good composition.

Saving Private Ryan is oft cited as effective use of handheld, but for me the definitive is Von Trier's "Breaking the Waves" - it's got a desaturated palate, documentary style, yet has some of the more breathtaking compositions I've ever seen. Give somebody like Robby Müller a VHS cam from the early 80s and I think he'd make it could make it look like some grand tracking shot by Griffith. LVT does lots of his own op'ing as well, and, frankly, a director that put a camera on his shoulder and shoot a scene will make for a far better handheld look than the idiot behind the operator banging on the back of the rig to make some point about "grittyness" or "realism".

Loads of TV series fool around with this type of technique (as Penton pointed out, often done in post with some After Effects-style "shake" pass added for "realism").

Again, when handheld is used stylistically it can be extremely effective... Hell, I almost threw up during Blair Witch, but it clearly was the only real think providing verisimilitude to the work. Cloverfield I've never even bothered with, frank. But when big budget films use it in sheer feats of gratuitousness ("Hello, Michael Bay...") or as pathetic attempts to make action seem more compelling than it is (I'm looking at you, Gladiator) then it, for me, is the cranked autotune equivalent of filmmaking - an annoying fad that's way past its prime, used by idiots in lieu of compelling production techniques.

You can add the hyperquick editing to that. I can understand that a filmmaker wants to give a particular scene a higher pace, but quick cutting to a different shot just to give it a frantic pace is the wrong way.
Cameras that move just to move are annoying too. It seems like many directors forgot the power great editing and mastery of the camera (framing is a big part of that too) just to make the pace higher. It's just lazy.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by cipher

Cliff, wonderful post and I thought your description of the Screenies at AVS was classic! Even my politically correct gf laughed at this one......

Some people in the business who know about *them* refer to them as “pajama people”.
Not me though, I’m even more politically correct than George F.
(https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=3912) < read the last paragraph.

P.S.
Hey sorry about Liverpool’s loss over the weekend but, at least we (me and doctorossi) moved up in the table and have a game in hand.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ryan69969

Tarantino's films are interesting......

One of the greatest things (at least as far as I’m concerned) about Q.T. is that he forbids cell phones on the set (you can’t even get past security carrying one in your possession) and that restriction goes for eh-vreeeeeeeeeeeeeee-one

including the Producers!

[blindcat87]

Thanks for the info Penton. Can't wait to get the disc. When all of the visiting family get here, I am hoping to have a true geek's holiday celebration with a trip to the theater to see 'Avatar' with a group viewing of the D9 BD the following evening.

Chris

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Hi Chris.
The English audio on D9 is 24bit 48khz DTS-HDMA.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by blindcat87

Thanks for the info Penton. Can't wait to get the disc. When all of the visiting family get here...

Well, for the sentimentalists and hopeless romantics (like me) amongst them, who may not be into sci-fi at all, let them know that at the most basic level, it’s also a love story.

Later guys.......Hi Ho, Hi Ho.

[SquidPuppet]

Roy Disney. RIP.

[Jeff Kleist]

Well, for the sentimentalists and hopeless romantics (like me) amongst them, who may not be into sci-fi at all, let them know that at the most basic level, it’s also a love story

Sci-fi is chock full of romances. For example I think you'd get a kick out of Firefly, and the stuff between Inara and Mal Penton Or how about Han and Leia?

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

One of the greatest things (at least as far as I’m concerned) about Q.T. is that he forbids cell phones on the set (you can’t even get past security carrying one in your possession) and that restriction goes for eh-vreeeeeeeeeeeeeee-one

including the Producers!

I wish this policy applied to movie theaters...if so, I may attend them more often.

[horseflesh]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

One of the greatest things (at least as far as I’m concerned) about Q.T. is that he forbids cell phones on the set (you can’t even get past security carrying one in your possession) and that restriction goes for eh-vreeeeeeeeeeeeeee-one

including the Producers!

Including handsome A-list actors too??

[SpaceDog]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

I wish this policy applied to movie theaters...if so, I may attend them more often.

I would love to run a movie theater that forcibly ejects rude patrons and prohibits any stripe of "child" after 10pm.

[dobyblue]

Hi Penton,
We were discussing the future of high resolution music and of course you know that I believe we will see a push from major label sometime in the next 2 years (I hope I'm not wrong?)...and one poster at the Steve Hoffman forums said they wouldn't be interested until they upgrade their non-HDMI receiver.

Of course many people know how wonderful an analog connection can be when your player's DAC's far outshine your receivers...but the posted said they were worried as they had heard labels could on a disc-by-disc basis limit high resolution output through all outputs other than HDMI and that worried them.

Can you comment on this? I know about the ICT, but is there something that can be built in for audio like this that wouldn't be player-controlled?
Gracias,
Esteban