Power cords? suggestions?

[Steve]

Originally Posted by rded

Speaking of power cords...Let me chime in: The last time I was over at my dealer he had me listen to his System which consists of Dynaudio Sapphires, Burmester Stack(CDP,Pre, Amp, Power Center) with all Nordost Valhalla cabling we're talking about over 85k in gear. For sh*ts and he switched between a Nordost Valhalla power cord(3k) to the Odin power cord(10k) on the Burmester CDP and had me listen to the difference. The verdict, the sound stage had increased and the micro dynamics are more evident with the Odin power cord. He did this 3-4 times using different CDs as reference.We kept the volume and settings the same. Mind you the lag time between change was at a little over 5 seconds. No blind folds needed my friends

Now I'm not saying go out and purchase $10,000 power cords but yes they MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

I'm just curious, but did you know which cord was being used each time you listened?

[rded]

Originally Posted by fireman325

I'm just curious, but did you know which cord was being used each time you listened?

Yup!

[moviefan]

Speaker wire supports, $$$$ power cords & speaker cables, Monster brand cables, and all the rest. PT Barnum and Abe Lincoln had it right!
This stuff is for people who don't knpw what to do with their money. Use good quality everything, but don't pay for the snake oi!

[rded]

Originally Posted by moviefan

Speaker wire supports, $$$$ power cords & speaker cables, Monster brand cables, and all the rest. PT Barnum and Abe Lincoln had it right!
This stuff is for people who don't knpw what to do with their money. Use good quality everything, but don't pay for the snake oi!

Before dismissing people's thoughts on the matter, may I ask if you have auditioned systems with diffent cables? In not, doing so won't cost you a penny. Find a reputable dealer, have him demo you different cables and cords and decide for yourself.

You bash monster products yet you have a monster power center....

[Gremal]

As others have said, power cords make a big difference on sound quality if you have good gear.

My current favorite is the Electra Glide SOTU.

[repete66211]

Originally Posted by ryan4blu

i was just asking some opinions didnt want to create a pissing match

Yeah, sorry about that. Power cords, speaker wire, etc. are contentious subjects. I don't respond to start or engage in fights, but to present a bit of balance to the conversation.

[ryan4blu]

Originally Posted by repete66211

Yeah, sorry about that. Power cords, speaker wire, etc. are contentious subjects. I don't respond to start or engage in fights, but to present a bit of balance to the conversation.

no problem just wanted some insight & maybe some recommendations

[repete66211]

Originally Posted by fireman325

I'm just curious, but did you know which cord was being used each time you listened?

Aha! You may be on to something Dr. Watson.

[Gremal]

Originally Posted by repete66211

Aha! You may be on to something Dr. Watson.

You're not. Power cord effects are in many cases not subtle, and audio gear is not pharmaceuticals. You don't have to pretend you need a double-blind, placebo-controlled multicenter clinical trial just to tell the difference between various cords.

[repete66211]

Originally Posted by Gremal

You're not. Power cord effects are in many cases not subtle, and audio gear is not pharmaceuticals. You don't have to pretend you need a double-blind, placebo-controlled multicenter clinical trial just to tell the difference between various cords.

No, but it would help. Bias must be eliminated when running a test. This goes for drugs, taste tests, a/v comparisons and any other test in which a person is being asked to give a subjective comparison of two things. Any results gathered from a biased source are, for survey and statistical purposes, invalid. Blinding is a very easy and reliable method of controlling an A/B test.

I'm not saying there wasn't a big difference and I won't (and can't) tell you what you heard. I will tell you that it's impossible to eliminate bias 100% when it comes to self-reporting subjective data. This is very basic science.

[ryan4blu]

Originally Posted by Gremal

You're not. Power cord effects are in many cases not subtle, and audio gear is not pharmaceuticals. You don't have to pretend you need a double-blind, placebo-controlled multicenter clinical trial just to tell the difference between various cords.

[rded]

Originally Posted by repete66211

No, but it would help. Bias must be eliminated when running a test. This goes for drugs, taste tests, a/v comparisons and any other test in which a person is being asked to give a subjective comparison of two things. Any results gathered from a biased source are, for survey and statistical purposes, invalid. Blinding is a very easy and reliable method of controlling an A/B test.

I'm not saying there wasn't a big difference and I won't (and can't) tell you what you heard. I will tell you that it's impossible to eliminate bias 100% when it comes to self-reporting subjective data. This is very basic science.

With all due respect Repete, I believe(and hope) you bought you gear because of your first hand experience/s on them and did not purchase them based on reviews by "credible" people in the industry, right? By doing so, it's your senses and budget that dictate that these are the gear for you... My point is, how can you argue someone's point that power cords actually make a perceivable difference when you yourself have ZERO experience with them???

[phantompwr]

This stuff is like a religion, no point in trying to argue.
to the OP: Did you get a decent answer to your actual question? Let us know if you need more help, although I can't guarantee there will be any consensus on any other topic you need help with

[Gremal]

Originally Posted by repete66211

No, but it would help. Bias must be eliminated when running a test. This goes for drugs, taste tests, a/v comparisons and any other test in which a person is being asked to give a subjective comparison of two things.

Drug tests do not involve subjective comparisons. Clinical trials look at scientifically quantifiable side effects that are then subject to statistical analysis. Objectively eliminating bias from tests is almost impossible due to experimenter expectancy effects, design and other parameters. There is no possible way to superimpose rigorous clinical trial design on a couple of guys listening to audio gear.

Any results gathered from a biased source are, for survey and statistical purposes, invalid.

Then you can ignore all opinions and posts on this and any other forum related to audio, video, or anything else not designed into tests and run on patients enrolled at various centers around the world...to avoid bias.

Blinding is a very easy and reliable method of controlling an A/B test.

False. Blinding is not natural in a listening environment and requires careful setup to be statistically significant.

I'm not saying there wasn't a big difference and I won't (and can't) tell you what you heard. I will tell you that it's impossible to eliminate bias 100% when it comes to self-reporting subjective data. This is very basic science.

There's nothing basic about it. Clinical research organizations spend billions of dollars developing trials, enrolling patients and analyzing the effects of drugs...and even then the FDA finds problems with some of these trials. It's silly to run a single-blind test of power cords or other audio gear and pretend you have done something scientific, let alone more effective, in evaluating the cords. Just listen and come to your own determination.

[ryan4blu]

Originally Posted by phantompwr

This stuff is like a religion, no point in trying to argue.
to the OP: Did you get a decent answer to your actual question? Let us know if you need more help, although I can't guarantee there will be any consensus on any other topic you need help with

a little bit, but the thread has gone off coarse a bit. too technical

just was hoping for s few recommendations or maybe links to sites that sell them. not looking to spend a ton of money either. like $100 or less is good for me.

[repete66211]

Originally Posted by rded

With all due respect Repete, I believe(and hope) you bought you gear because of your first hand experience/s on them and did not purchase them based on reviews by "credible" people in the industry, right? By doing so, it's your senses and budget that dictate that these are the gear for you... My point is, how can you argue someone's point that power cords actually make a perceivable difference when you yourself have ZERO experience with them???

I bought my gear with several things in mind. The primary concern was whether or not my needs were met. That is, was the gear capable of what I wanted it to do? Price was a significant factor as well, so I was looking for the best value for my money. Input from people on this site, personal experience and the opinion of professional reviewers factored in my decision. All things considered I am pleased with the outcome.

You have experience with performance power cords, but by your account your A/B tests were not controlled for bias. I do not have any experience with performance power cords. Therefore I must form an opinion based on what data I am able to gather. I can examine claims and weigh them against what makes sense, starting with basic questions:

What does a power cord do? Can materials or design improve how well it does this? If so, by what mechanism? Does data exist which objectively demonstrates this improved performance or is the perceived improvement based on personal, subjective testimony? If the former, is the change within the sensory threshhold of the average human? If the latter, were the tests blinded to control for bias? Does anyone stand to gain financially from the personal testimony and could this in any way create a bias for said testimony?

In my experience I can't say performance power cords in no way improve audio quality. I am saying that if they do I would like a.) to see objective data indicating as much and b.) an explanation of the mechanism which makes such improvements possible. I am also saying very expensive a/v equipment and accessories is an area ripe for exploitation by snake oil salesmen.

I take no issue with someone buying a $10,000 power cord or $7,000+ speaker wire because they can afford it and like the look of it or because they perceive improved performance. It's none of my business what people spend their money on. What I do take issue with is people claiming night and day differences when it comes to performance--performance from a passive device which can't be measured.

[RBBrittain]

Originally Posted by Gremal

As others have said, power cords make a big difference on sound quality if you have good gear.

My current favorite is the Electra Glide SOTU.

Yeah, but do the wires in your wall look like that? I don't think so. Yet your electricity goes thru more feet of copper in your wall than in your power cord.

The best I can say about power cords like this is they make Monster HDMI cables look reasonable in comparison. Other than that, they're both a bunch of snake oil.

The only time I've ever replaced a power cord was on my PS3--and then only to leave some room for my router by replacing the stock cord's straight CEE plug with a right-angle CEE plug. (And that came from Monoprice, same as all but one of my HDMI cables.)

[rded]

Repete,

Like your namesake, I shall repeat; the premise of this discussion is that you sit there on your high horse stating facts based on other people's insight- credible or not.. yet you fail to do the most basic of things: that is to go out and audition gear in person! I refuse to discuss things further with you until you have done such. Good day Sir!

[repete66211]

Originally Posted by Gremal

...Just listen and come to your own determination.

You can't deny the importance of eliminating as much bias as possible when conducting a subjective, self-reporting A/B evaluation. The more bias you eliminate and the more data you have the more accurate your results will be.

But like you said, let your ears make the decision for you. If you perceive a difference and you can afford it, then by all means buy it. However, I would think any wise consumer would want to make sure he's truly hearing a difference and isn't being won over by the pretty wrapping or a sales pitch.

[ryan4blu]

so who has any suggestions for cables or sites to go to? sick of all the technical terms. please someone with some thoughts or help? thank you