Los Vega's HT

[vega2K]

Okay I took a plunge! I have purchased the pieces to build my own M&K push/pull Subwoofer!


- 1 x MPS-5320; B-Stock, black matte 2X12 push-pull sub-woofer cabinet (15.5" X 27" X 17.5") includes grill; made by Miller & Kreisel (M&K)

- 1 x Miller & Kreisel (M&K) VX-1250/MX-2500 250W Sub-Woofer Plate Amplifier

- 2 x M & K Sound 12 inch Woofers Model 17035, New, Unused, Bulk Packed Miller and Kreisel Super Fast Deep Bass

The end result should be something like this from ebay. Of course I will be paying about half of the asking price!
M&K Sound mk-2500 Miller & Kriesel mk2500 Subwoofer - eBay (item 200430258324 end time Jan-26-10 14:36:39 PST)

Wish me luck!!!!!

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by vega2K

Okay I took a plunge! I have purchased the pieces to build my own M&K push/pull Subwoofer!


- 1 x MPS-5320; B-Stock, black matte 2X12 push-pull sub-woofer cabinet (15.5" X 27" X 17.5") includes grill; made by Miller & Kreisel (M&K)

- 1 x Miller & Kreisel (M&K) VX-1250/MX-2500 250W Sub-Woofer Plate Amplifier

- 2 x M & K Sound 12 inch Woofers Model 17035, New, Unused, Bulk Packed Miller and Kreisel Super Fast Deep Bass

The end result should be something like this from ebay. Of course I will be paying about half of the asking price!
M&K Sound mk-2500 Miller & Kriesel mk2500 Subwoofer - eBay (item 200430258324 end time Jan-26-10 14:36:39 PST)

Wish me luck!!!!!

Wow! That's quite the project Vega, and even better at half the price! I wish I had the kind of talent you DIY'ers had, but this stuff is way beyond my comprehension.

Good luck and do post pics during the build!

John

[SeanMF]

Good luck with that!

[rded]

Good Luck Vega! How long will it take you to complete?

[crazyBLUE]

Real cool vega , Remember pics & reviews

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by vega2K

Okay I took a plunge! I have purchased the pieces to build my own M&K push/pull Subwoofer!

These push-pull subwoofers work like dipole surround speakers that have their drivers connected out of phase.

As an alternative to push-pull subwoofer, you may want to consider building a subwoofer with one 12" driver and a 12" or larger passive radiator. Passive radiators are an alternative to bass ports and are cheaper than another subwoofer driver with excellent results. Almost all Definitive Technology subwoofers and Super Towers have subwoofer drivers and passive radiators.

[vega2K]

Originally Posted by SeanMF

Good luck with that!

Thanks Sean!

Originally Posted by rded

Good Luck Vega! How long will it take you to complete?

Thanks Rhett! Once I get all the parts, believe it or not, I am expecting to finish in about 4 hours (knocks on wood). The hardest part will be cutting the amp openning to fit the amp (I may not even need to do that) and tapping screw holes. Then install the amp, install the drivers, wire it up, apply polyfill, and test. I 've read enough to know how I need to wire it up, so I think it is pretty straight forward.

[vega2K]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

These push-pull subwoofers work like dipole surround speakers that have their drivers connected out of phase.

As an alternative to push-pull subwoofer, you may want to consider building a subwoofer with one 12" driver and a 12" or larger passive radiator. Passive radiators are an alternative to bass ports and are cheaper than another subwoofer driver with excellent results. Almost all Definitive Technology subwoofers and Super Towers have subwoofer drivers and passive radiators.

I did not know that. Thanks Big Daddy. The drivers were not too expensive though at $89 a piece and when you consider a very similar M&K sub is going for $1400 at abt.com new, it's worth the cost!

Edit: Correction - the abt.com sub is actually going for $1800, check it out:
http://www.abt.com/product/36193/MK-Sound-MX250.html

[rded]

Originally Posted by vega2K

Thanks Sean!




Thanks Rhett! Once I get all the parts, believe it or not, I am expecting to finish in about 4 hours (knocks on wood). The hardest part will be cutting the amp openning to fit the amp (I may not even need to do that) and tapping screw holes. Then install the amp, install the drivers, wire it up, apply polyfill, and test. I 've read enough to know how I need to wire it up, so I think it is pretty straight forward.

4 hours?? Man... you're good!

[vega2K]

Originally Posted by rded

4 hours?? Man... you're good!

It's just a very straight forward project. I replaced the driver in my sub and had to enlarge the opening and I had to tap holes and fill it with polyfill. It took me an hour. I figure the extra driver and amp would take an extra few hours. Remember, I am getting all the pieces I need, so I do not have to make the enclosure or paint it or anything like that. I just have to put it together. The beauty is in how much you save by doing it yourself.

[rded]

Originally Posted by vega2K

It's just a very straight forward project. I replaced the driver in my sub and had to enlarge the opening and I had to tap holes and fill it with polyfill. It took me an hour. I figure the extra driver and amp would take an extra few hours. Remember, I am getting all the pieces I need, so I do not have to make the enclosure or paint it or anything like that. I just have to put it together. The beauty is in how much you save by doing it yourself.

It sounds so easy since you're describing it. But if it were me, it'll take me at least a week.

Sounds like quite a fun project. I want to see the pictures of it(before,during,after).

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by vega2K

It's just a very straight forward project. I replaced the driver in my sub and had to enlarge the opening and I had to tap holes and fill it with polyfill. It took me an hour. I figure the extra driver and amp would take an extra few hours. Remember, I am getting all the pieces I need, so I do not have to make the enclosure or paint it or anything like that. I just have to put it together. The beauty is in how much you save by doing it yourself.

It really does not take that long to do some of the DIY stuff , Does it vega ! It's fun to do as well , I know I enjoy it !

[vega2K]

Originally Posted by rded

It sounds so easy since you're describing it. But if it were me, it'll take me at least a week.

Sounds like quite a fun project. I want to see the pictures of it(before,during,after).

Definitely! Of course if I screw it up, you will not see the pictures.

But seriously, I will be taking pictures. I know the biggest incentive to do stuff myself is seeing others do it. So I hope I can have the same effect on others.

[rded]

Originally Posted by vega2K

Definitely! Of course if I screw it up, you will not see the pictures.

But seriously, I will be taking pictures. I know the biggest incentive to do stuff myself is seeing others do it. So I hope I can have the same effect on others.

Sure! That will be a treat, especially now that I am not allowed to get a new sub. Wife says my system has too much bass.

[vega2K]

Originally Posted by crazyBLUE

It really does not take that long to do some of the DIY stuff , Does it vega ! It's fun to do as well , I know I enjoy it !

At first, it may sound really intimidating and you have the feeling that there is no way you can do it. But then after you think about it and research it and then do it in your mind, you can really surprise yourself. I have fun doing it too, in fact that is probably the biggest push - for me. To me, going to a store and and getting something that you really want is fun, but getting something you want by doing it yourself or cutting that cost in half, is even more fun.

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by vega2K

At first, it may sound really intimidating and you have the feeling that there is no way you can do it. But then after you think about it and research it and then do it in your mind, you can really surprise yourself. I have fun doing it too, in fact that is probably the biggest push - for me. To me, going to a store and and getting something that you really want is fun, but getting something you want by doing it yourself or cutting that cost in half, is even more fun.

Totally agree ! I know I have probably done things that people think is nuts , But Everything has turned out great . & also knowing you did it yourself is A good feeling Too .

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by vega2K

I'll post this cool pic here to explain as I understand it:



The drivers are connected out of phase, meaning one of the drivers has the speaker connections reversed. However, because of the configuration, they are in phase acoustically, i.e., they both push inwards and pull outwards in phase. This is why it is known as a push/pull configuration. The way it is set-up, eliminates cabinet noise/anamolies and supposedly increases the power output. I love the uniqueness of it and had an impact in my set-up immediately.

I get it....so the bottom driver fires into the cabinet, while the other driver is firing out, thus they are firing out of phase....very cool!

[talstarone]

It was funny you brought up everything about M&K Yesterday,Vega ,my Friend.
I Finally Received my January Issue of Home Theater Magazine and who just happened to have a Full Page Ad.... Why M&K of course.

Very Nice Speakers in the Pic.
And the ad was based around the fact that M&K Monitors were used to Mix the Soundtracks for many Movies and Movie Studios(and goes on to list the Studios)which was a Very Impressive to say the least.

[vega2K]

Originally Posted by talstarone

It was funny you brought up everything about M&K Yesterday,Vega ,my Friend.
I Finally Received my January Issue of Home Theater Magazine and who just happened to have a Full Page Ad.... Why M&K of course.

Very Nice Speakers in the Pic.
And the ad was based around the fact that M&K Monitors were used to Mix the Soundtracks for many Movies and Movie Studios(and goes on to list the Studios)which was a Very Impressive to say the least.

Hey Tals,

Just logging on this morning. M&K is a fascinating case study. It seemed to have had a run of poor managment in it's last few years before going bankrupt. I have read how reputable they were in the late 90's early 00's and how their products had a good and influencial following. Only to vanish almost overnight. It sounds like they let their fame get to their heads and expanded way too much, too fast. I have also read that in recent years they are coming back as M&K Sound (abt.com sells their products today). They are hoping that their past following, along with word of mouth from previous owners, will help them maintain or win back customers. I would not be surprised if we start to see way more ads from them.

These factors, along with others, helped to push me to go the DIY M&K Sub route. I figure, the last remaining parts from the original M&K will be depleted soon, as the M&K Sound brand starts to pick-up and more people get wind of the going prices on new products. Remember that the new designs in their products are the same as the original designs and the parts are basically the same (in fact new parts may actually be inferior in quality). The parts I have purchased came from the 2007 M&K bankruptcy auction which was spread across multiple small businesses and can be found on the Internet. As I stated in previous posts, a very similar sub (size, dimensions, specs, etc.) goes for $1800 new. What I plan on building will also be brand new with a new amp, new drivers, bigger cabinet, etc. for slightly above $500!

[vega2K]

I would like to get your opinions on this as I prepare to build my M&K sub.
Please help me out, what do you think?


Facts:
- The cabinet was made for a "professional series" sub which intended on housing a longer/narrower amp (not available anywhere) on the side where the front firing driver is located. The sub was intended to fire directly at a wall, hence the amp is located on the side of the driver. Look at Fig A below.

- To install new purchased amp, I will need to cut-out the clean side - Fig C.

- Fig B shows how the sub would look with the grill on, notice the covered hole where the intended amp would have gone.



Issue:
I was thinking of not cutting the openning at all, and instead making a separate enclosure for the new purchased amp. I would then place the amp separately/next to the Sub and simply have umbilical-like wires connecting the two, at the bottom of the enclosure.

Pros:
1. I hate the idea of cutting out the nice clean side of the enclosure. Also I am not crazy about the look of having the grill below the closed off openning of the intended amp location.

2. Since the cabinet was made for the "professional series" sub, I like the idea of having it fire towards the wall and using it as was intended. Also, I like how clean the sub would look facing the living area.

3. Not cutting out still leaves me the ability to cut out if I decide to.

Cons:
1. The sub is no longer a stand-alone sub and will always need to have the separate amp tag along.

2. I will be limited in placement since I will have to consider where I place/hide the separate amp

3. Extra time of building an amp enclosure, although it will be very quick and aesthetics would not be critical since it will be out of sight.

WHat do you think?

Thanks in advance!