HK 254(referb) or Pioneer 1019ahk for starter unit

[Lethal91]

I am looking to get a receiver to start my sound I have seen the HK 254 on ebay go around 250 and that seems to be a good deal but would the pioneer be a better buy?

[CRMA]

Originally Posted by Lethal91

I am looking to get a receiver to start my sound I have seen the on ebay go around 250 and that seems to be a good deal but would the pioneer be a better buy?

HK's are known for having very low wattage output. I think the model you are looking at only produces about 50 watts rms per channel. Not very much to drive your speakers. I am not sure what you have but the Pioneer will produce about 120 per channel. A much better deal in the long run. Lets say you run Polk Monitor 50s, they need about 100 watts to push them to sound the way they should. Invest in a receiver, dont skimp. It is what everything else will depend on in the future. The Pioneers is the way to go.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by Lethal91

I am looking to get a receiver to start my sound I have seen the HK 254 on ebay go around 250 and that seems to be a good deal but would the pioneer be a better buy?

I'd go with the Pioneer - it's simply a more efficient unit. Clean power, delivered efficiently without a lot of waste heat.

I don't know the HK unit, but I do know the Pioneer, and recommend that highly. The value is there...for other brands of equal or better output, you spend one heck of a lot more.

[ZIPPO]

Originally Posted by Lethal91

I am looking to get a receiver to start my sound I have seen the HK 254 on ebay go around 250 and that seems to be a good deal but would the pioneer be a better buy?

The Pioneer 1019 may be rated for a 120 Watts per channel, but it only puts out less than 30 Watts per channel with all channels driven according to HT Magazine's review. Plus it has no pre-outs for adding a separate amp later.
Pioneer VSX-1019AH A/V Receiver:
HT Labs Measures
Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 28.7 watts
1% distortion at 34.3 watts

"Pioneer’s Website optimistically rates power at 120 watts times seven, but according to the manual, that’s with one channel driven."




The HK 254 is rated for 50 Watts per channel with all channels driven( an honest conservative power rating ). Plus it has pre-outs for adding a amp later for more power.
"For your surround sound pleasure, you get 50 watts on tap across all seven channels, which may not sound like a lot, given some of today's receiver specs, but rest assured, the AVR 254 has all the power the average consumer is likely to ever need. If 50 watts proves too wimpy for your tastes, the AVR 254 has a full complement of preamp outputs, allowing you to mate it to a separate power amp or two, turning the AVR 254 into an A/V processor."


The HK 254 is a better deal than the Pioneer 1019.

[Zman2k2]

I'm a Pioneer guy, have been for years. But I'm disappointed with this years' offerings from them. I would, if I were you, go with the HK. Zippo is correct in what he said about the low output of the Pioneer, but the fact it has no pre-outs is the deal-breaker for me. HK have always been conservative, or realistic, with their output, so you have a better understanding of what you're getting.

[lojack1976]

Originally Posted by Lethal91

I am looking to get a receiver to start my sound I have seen the HK 254 on ebay go around 250 and that seems to be a good deal but would the pioneer be a better buy?

I've always liked Pioneer receivers, but I'm an Onkyo and an HK owner, and I can say with full confidence the HK is easily the better choice. First off HK has always underrated their receivers. The power rating for all channels driven is RMS, and it doesn't even reflect the fact that in most situations all channels are not even used simultaneously.

In most situations your front three channels will shoulder the burden and believe when I tell you that my AVR247 is every bit as powerful as my Onkyo 605 if not more so. The difference was like night and day when I swapped out the 605 for the 247.

Aside from driving my speakers even harder the sound is markedly different...much warmer...and I prefer it. They match up very well with my JBL's. It worked out for the better too since my Onkyo goes rather well with my Energy speakers.

As others have stated that Pioneer is pretty disappointing when looking at the bench test results. Does it sound good? I'm sure it does and for most users its sufficient, but the HK is a better build anyway. They use some very hefty power supplies amongst other things while Pioneer reserves that treatment for the Elite series. I personally would not buy a non-Elite Pioneer these days. They've compromised their entry level receivers too much IMO.

As far as I'm concerned HK has some of the most underrated receivers out there. You get an excellent sound and a lot more power than the specs reveal with their receivers. HK really provides an amazing value and they are very good looking receivers on top of that. You add in the fact that you can get a great deal on an HK refurb complete with a full year warranty it just doesn't even make sense to go with most other entry level receivers since the HK will easily outperform them.

The other companies are just way too focused on fancy features that most don't use while they neglect the power and build quality aspects. Its sad when a receiver's video upconversion capability is more important than power and sound quality.

[callas01]

I have to agree with everyone else, the Pioneers this year (with exception of the Elites) are not good at all. I would suggest the HK in this case also, then the next best in this class this year is Ironically the Sony DN-1000.

[red-blu]

I went the same route to get my HK. If you can afford the time and the waiting, you might be able to get it even cheaper...

[lojack1976]

I don't know what your budget it, but there is an out of this world deal right now on a Sony STR-DAES4300 for $399 with free shipping from Sonystyle.com HERE. At this price I don't think there is a better value out there. If I had the cash I'd grab it just for the hell of it and I don't even need a new receiver right now.

[ZIPPO]

Originally Posted by lojack1976

I don't know what your budget it, but there is an out of this world deal right now on a Sony STR-DAES4300 for $399 with free shipping from Sonystyle.com HERE. At this price I don't think there is a better value out there. If I had the cash I'd grab it just for the hell of it and I don't even need a new receiver right now.

VERY NICE FIND!

[Lethal91]

Originally Posted by lojack1976

I don't know what your budget it, but there is an out of this world deal right now on a Sony STR-DAES4300 for $399 with free shipping from Sonystyle.com HERE. At this price I don't think there is a better value out there. If I had the cash I'd grab it just for the hell of it and I don't even need a new receiver right now.

Must have been a price mistake that has been fixed its up to 999 now . But with that I will add the new sony into the fold how is the DN1000 as a new receiver.

Edit:

Ok so I added it to the cart and it shows at 399 is that a better receiver then most others at that price

[lojack1976]

Originally Posted by Lethal91

Must have been a price mistake that has been fixed its up to 999 now . But with that I will add the new sony into the fold how is the DN1000 as a new receiver.

Edit:

Ok so I added it to the cart and it shows at 399 is that a better receiver then most others at that price

This receiver was initially $1300 upon release. I don't think there's anything for $400 that is as feature heavy as this one. There are others that will have just as much power and in some cases more, but overall this is just a much higher end product than what generally goes for this price. The ES line of receivers also sound very good...very clean sounding. For $1000 I would look elsewhere since there are many good choices in that range, but for $400 you just can't go wrong.

[acritzer]

Ahh, might have ordered that without thinking too much about it, but it looks like it was removed. No longer available for purchase. Bummer.

Anyone know of any other flukes out there on prices?

[citizen]

been looking in the same price range, seems like there are a lot of refurbiseshed hk 254s on ebay, makes me suspicious that they arent that good

[lojack1976]

Originally Posted by citizen

been looking in the same price range, seems like there are a lot of refurbiseshed hk 254s on ebay, makes me suspicious that they arent that good

Actually they are very good. I myself got a refurb off ebay from the Harman store. I haven't had a single issue and they still give you a full year warranty with their refurbs whereas some manufacturers only offer a 90 day warranty on their refurbs. Upon initial release there were some issues that people ran into with the 254 and the 354 and there were many returns while firmware was being ironed out.

Those issues have been resolved with newer firmware, but of course once a receiver has been sold and returned it can no longer be sold as new which is why you see so many refurbs available. These are still excellent receivers and if you ask around the forum you will see that many people have purchased the Harman refurbs and are very happy with them.

This is not unique to Harman since there are many authorized retailers that also offer a large number of Denon, Onkyo, and Marantz refurbs. Harman just chooses to sell them themselves as well as many of their other products. In fact a large number of companies sell their refurbs and overstocks on ebay now. The Polk store for instance is very popular.

[citizen]

Originally Posted by lojack1976

Actually they are very good. I myself got a refurb off ebay from the Harman store. I haven't had a single issue and they still give you a full year warranty with their refurbs whereas some manufacturers only offer a 90 day warranty on their refurbs. Upon initial release there were some issues that people ran into with the 254 and the 354 and there were many returns while firmware was being ironed out.

Those issues have been resolved with newer firmware, but of course once a receiver has been sold and returned it can no longer be sold as new which is why you see so many refurbs available. These are still excellent receivers and if you ask around the forum you will see that many people have purchased the Harman refurbs and are very happy with them.

This is not unique to Harman since there are many authorized retailers that also offer a large number of Denon, Onkyo, and Marantz refurbs. Harman just chooses to sell them themselves as well as many of their other products. In fact a large number of companies sell their refurbs and overstocks on ebay now. The Polk store for instance is very popular.

well thats cool, i guess if you havent had problems then that is your experience, but there are pages and pages of problem discussions on forums about the 254, even with firmware updates seems like this is a very buggy machine, looks like you can get them for around 225 on ebay thru the hk store, which is a pretty great deal for a 7.1 system, just still seems like a risk to me