Best animated Disney villain?

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by Black Mamba

Scar.

How do you kill your own brother and then move on and try to kill your own nephew?

You are actually stepping out of Disney Villain territory with that one. Since Lion King is a blatantly infantized rip-off of the greatest work of literature ever produced, you might as well say Claudius instead of Scar.

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

You are actually stepping out of Disney Villain territory with that one. Since Lion King is a blatantly infantized rip-off of the greatest work of literature ever produced, you might as well say Claudius instead of Scar.

I always liked that comparison. I saw Lion King live on stage and it was tons of fun. But I did make a crack along the lines of: "I've read this story before in High School. It was called 'Hamlet'."

I'd have to ponder the favorite animated villain thing. But when I see any of them, I like to say "Sora's gonna whip your.."

[Moviefan2k4]

I forgot to mention one of my all-time faves in my prior post: Judge Claude Frollo, from "The Hunchback of Notre Dame". That guy ticked me off and creeped me out at the same time; the finale on the church rooftop is epic, at least IMO.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by Musashi

I always liked that comparison. I saw Lion King live on stage and it was tons of fun. But I did make a crack along the lines of: "I've read this story before in High School. It was called 'Hamlet'."

I'd have to ponder the favorite animated villain thing. But when I see any of them, I like to say "Sora's gonna whip your.."

It's not a comparison. It's a fact. The Lion King film was deliberately made as a dumbed down version of Hamlet.

[mikejet]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

It's not a comparison. It's a fact. The Lion King film was deliberately made as a dumbed down version of Hamlet.

Hamlet is a bit heavy for a kid to take in. The Lion King is a great family movie. I don't think it's dumbed down at all.

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

It's not a comparison. It's a fact. The Lion King film was deliberately made as a dumbed down version of Hamlet.

Here's the "facts", and here's what was "deliberate" (for those who didn't read the Wiki in the earlier post):
- Disney execs were in Japan in 1986 when Tezuka was experiencing a marketed revival of his best known 60's properties, complete with a newly-produced series of "Kimba the White Lion" (Jungle Emperor).
- Although Walt had met Osamu Tezuka on one famous occasion (contributing to Tezuka's nickname as "the Walt Disney of Japan"), and had suggested a collaboration, New-Disney, like most of mainstream US in the mid-80's, was unaware that Japan had an animated industry.
- Disney was experiencing a boom in "Americanizing" remakes of foreign hits (such as Francis Veber comedies and "Little Indian, Big City), was bemused by the idea that international animation was as or more locally popular than their own, and used Walt's anecdote as precedent to suggest an officially licensed Americanized version of Kimba. (One of the few proto-Japanimation series older Hollywood execs remembered from the 60's, along with Speed Racer and Astro Boy also getting their own movie deals.)
- Negotiations dragged but eventually fell through, and Disney cancelled plans in favor of Katzenberg announcing Disney's "first all-new original story", King of the Jungle. (A strange and rather suspicious initial title choice, as screenwriters later pointed out that lions do not live in the jungle, hence the title change.)
- Even Matthew Broderick was quoted as saying he'd thought that "Simba" had been a script typo for "Kimba", and told friends that he was working on a 60's cult-revival movie.
- The Tezuka estate sued for "unreasonable similarities" over the cancelled project, and while Disney tried to laugh the attempt off in public, they did settle out of court.

(These are, btw, rather well-known facts.
In '00, the NY Children's Film Festival was going to invite Rob Minkoff to screen "Stuart Little", while also hosting the latest "Jungle Emperor" revival feature from Japan. The Festival organizers were reportedly deluged with customer requests to have Minkoff attend the Kimba screening and answer Q&A questions, with which they eventually agreed to comply. As I did not attend that screening, it is not mentioned which questions the audience was hoping to ask.)

[Propellarhead9]

If we can add in mininons my vote is for Krunk from Emperor's New Groove and if not him i would go for the Bushman guy can't remember his name off the top of my head from Rescuers Down Under.

[Atreyu]

Just watched Snow White on Disney HD Saturday and have to go with The Queen in that film, the first, is still the best.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by EricJ

Here's the "facts", and here's what was "deliberate" (for those who didn't read the Wiki in the earlier post):
- Disney execs were in Japan in 1986 when Tezuka was experiencing a marketed revival of his best known 60's properties, complete with a newly-produced series of "Kimba the White Lion" (Jungle Emperor).
- Although Walt had met Osamu Tezuka on one famous occasion (contributing to Tezuka's nickname as "the Walt Disney of Japan"), and had suggested a collaboration, New-Disney, like most of mainstream US in the mid-80's, was unaware that Japan had an animated industry.
- Disney was experiencing a boom in "Americanizing" remakes of foreign hits (such as Francis Veber comedies and "Little Indian, Big City), was bemused by the idea that international animation was as or more locally popular than their own, and used Walt's anecdote as precedent to suggest an officially licensed Americanized version of Kimba. (One of the few proto-Japanimation series older Hollywood execs remembered from the 60's, along with Speed Racer and Astro Boy also getting their own movie deals.)
- Negotiations dragged but eventually fell through, and Disney cancelled plans in favor of Katzenberg announcing Disney's "first all-new original story", King of the Jungle. (A strange and rather suspicious initial title choice, as screenwriters later pointed out that lions do not live in the jungle, hence the title change.)
- Even Matthew Broderick was quoted as saying he'd thought that "Simba" had been a script typo for "Kimba", and told friends that he was working on a 60's cult-revival movie.
- The Tezuka estate sued for "unreasonable similarities" over the cancelled project, and while Disney tried to laugh the attempt off in public, they did settle out of court.

(These are, btw, rather well-known facts.
In '00, the NY Children's Film Festival was going to invite Rob Minkoff to screen "Stuart Little", while also hosting the latest "Jungle Emperor" revival feature from Japan. The Festival organizers were reportedly deluged with customer requests to have Minkoff attend the Kimba screening and answer Q&A questions, with which they eventually agreed to comply. As I did not attend that screening, it is not mentioned which questions the audience was hoping to ask.)

Whether Disney used a japanimation series or Shakespeare's text as its source, it ultimately all stems back to Hamlet anyways. And, subsequently, Claudius is the Disney Villain which I prefer.

[danman227460]

So even in Prince Caspian, Claudius is the villain you prefer?

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

Whether Disney used a japanimation series or Shakespeare's text as its source, it ultimately all stems back to Hamlet anyways. And, subsequently, Claudius is the Disney Villain which I prefer.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by danman227460

So even in Prince Caspian, Claudius is the villain you prefer?

I haven't seen Prince Caspian. Is it another Hamlet wannabe?

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

You are actually stepping out of Disney Villain territory with that one. Since Lion King is a blatantly infantized rip-off of the greatest work of literature ever produced

You said it!--Tezuka RULES!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimba_t...ng_controversy

(Seriously, guys--There was means, motive, opportunity, Disney was IN Tokyo in 1987 when the series was being revived, we have a past criminal record for Katz, it was one of the only 60's Japanese shows 'Boomer studio execs had heard of, and practically no one in the mainstream knew about anime in 1994, allowing for an easy getaway....No jury on earth would acquit, if not for the fact that Disney settled the suit with the estate.)

[mikejet]

Scar was cool. I like Scar and The Lion King. It's a family movie, why are people getting all hostile?

[iam1bearcat]

I haven't seen alot of the older Disney movies, but the vote for me easily goes to Scar from The Lion King. Ironically enough I was just talking about Disney villains the other day... and I'll say here what I said then, "Scar was such a disturbing bad ass. He kills his own brother just for the sake of taking over the territory? what other Disney character has killed off their only family member?!" - well besides Simba later on. haha

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by iam1bearcat

I haven't seen alot of the older Disney movies, but the vote for me easily goes to Scar from The Lion King. Ironically enough I was just talking about Disney villains the other day... and I'll say here what I said then, "Scar was such a disturbing bad ass. He kills his own brother just for the sake of taking over the territory? what other Disney character has killed off their only family member?!" - well besides Simba later on. haha

Simba didn't kill Scar, he kicked the crap out of him and let the hyenas eat him. Plus Simba still had Nala and his mother.

[metalgeargreed]

Scar. Come on! he is voiced my Jeremy Irons.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by EricJ

Disney settled the suit with the estate.)

Interesting, as I was unaware any suit was filed. If Disney settled a suit for copyright or intellectual property theft regarding the Lion King, they managed to keep it very, very, quiet - I've never heard of any such thing. Perhaps you can elaborate, with sources.

[Porkchop Express]

I've always liked Honest John from Pinocchio.

[Ernest Rister]

I'm still waiting for someone to link to a verified source that Disney settled an intellectual property theft lawsuit regarding the Lion King.

[DJ Manyak]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I'm still waiting for someone to link to a verified source that Disney settled an intellectual property theft lawsuit regarding the Lion King.

There wouldn't be one if court records where sealed