Lord of the Rings Trilogy (Theatrical Versions) - April 6, 2010

[DaViD Boulet]

Originally Posted by Maggot

People have every right to be angry. Mountains are just as easily moved or torn down with anger. You bet. If things were done right the first time, we wouldn't have this. Considering how many times transfers haven't been done right, we have something of an epidemic on our hands with Blu-ray. Truely, there's disease a foot with way too many subpar transfers. It wasn't funny or cute when we saw this with DVD, but now with high-res......come on. There's no excuse other than it's too expensive......period. In that case, don't release it at all or charge a higher price to make up for the cost to do it right. None of this half-assed crap. For Blu-ray/1080p, you either do it right or not at all. Some say, well if you "stick it to them" as it were, they won't be motivated to address and fix the issues. Fine, if they don't, then it doesn't come out and everyone then knows exactly, without question, Warner's or whoever's commitment is or lack there of. This sort of "well you've got to be nice to them or else", is the sort of treat the studios with kid gloves, tuck tail, knuckle under, limp wristed excuse we hear so much these days. Studio should do this: Pick a movie in their catalog, find out how much it wil cost to completely restore it, then tell the public this is how much it will cost and how much we would have to charge you. Be up front and open on the costs. If the format is too expensive to maintain and support, then dump it, admit it and go back to DVD. I swear, if your not gonna do it right with this level of resolution, just stop.

I would be HAPPY to pay more to have a proper 1080p presentation of a film I love if that's what it took to make it possible to do a new telecine and/or restoration effort. I've often thought that that studios should do a "advance purchase fund" where folks commit to buy a title at a given price *if* it's able to reach the funds needed for disc production. Not enough people contribute/commit? No one gets charge: no harm no foul. The threshold needed gets reached? Everybody gets charged to give the studio funds, and then the product comes in the mail when it's ready.

It could make a very interesting "film preservation club", and folks could vote on titles that should be placed on the wish-list.

[DaViD Boulet]

Originally Posted by Maggot

But that's just it. They shouldn't have to look at threads for comments, they should do it right in the first place. It really is that simple. Do it right the first time, there's nothing noble about it, more like integrity. This is not a hard concept to grasp here or a out of place request.

Agreed.

If "we" can look at a blu-ray and see DNR, why can't "they"? Don't they have eyesight just like the reviewer at blu-ray.com and others?

The sad thing about the DNR issue is that it WOULDN'T COST MORE to release the title without the lost detail!!! It would just take someone resisting the use of the digital-clean-up tool they're so fond of clicking.

[QuasidodoJr]

There's no real way to do this, though. In the state the U.S. economy is in, not everyone can contractually agree to afford a higher priced title whenever it hits shelves. I'm sure there would be no way to force people to pay, and the studio would lose out if too many people changed their minds.

As for the DNR comment - a lot of people that just want movies to look shiny on their new tv screen, they prefer DNR to grain. I don't feel that way. You obviously don't feel that way, but there are plenty that do.

Maybe the EE will get a better transfer. Which will suck for me, because I prefer the TE cuts.

[DaViD Boulet]

Originally Posted by QuasidodoJr

There's no real way to do this, though. In the state the U.S. economy is in, not everyone can contractually agree to afford a higher priced title whenever it hits shelves. I'm sure there would be no way to force people to pay, and the studio would lose out if too many people changed their minds.

Sure you can ensure that they pay. You charge their credit card.

If the restoration effort doesn't reach it's goal and has to be called off, then the payments are refunded. Nothing lost. If the restoration effort goes through, the consumers get the discs that they've already bought and paid for in advance.

Would you have let Paramount charge you a year in advance for The African Queen? Or have let Warner charge you a year in advance for The Wizard of Oz with the agreement that if the project got called off or delayed beyond a posted date you'd get your full refund? I would have. If I were the studio, I'd even let consumers opt have their names in a list during the closing credits as the benefactors who made the restoration possible.

[42041]

Originally Posted by QuasidodoJr

Here's my issue with these boards... because of the early on issue Warner Bros. had with not consistently supporting lossless audio, if Warner Bros. releases a subpar, low priority catalog title - people raise their pitchforks, in group en masse. EVERY single time. They release more blu-ray movies than any other studio and they usually have the best prices. For just about every mediocre transfer, they have two great ones to match it. It's the growing pains of any new format. It's not like they're selling a lot of copies of even blu-ray's best sellers. For all we know, WB saw page after page of all the immature comments on Amazon, regarding the TE cuts, and decided not to bother with a worthwhile restoration.

I like what they do with many of their classics and I've always said they're the top of the heap in that regard, but I don't like the people who do their compression, I think they're genuinely bad at their job. Just about every other studio is putting out super-clean encodes that render the grain superbly, but WB tend to squeeze very little compression quality out of a given bitrate, and always go for a low one. Even the best looking title here, ROTK, seems to suffer from typical WB inefficiency. They are the biggest studio out there, everyone else has figured it out, time to get with the program already

[Maggot]

[QUOTE=QuasidodoJr;3080909]You do realize they are a business trying to make a profit, right?

Again, that's fine, but if you are going to show contempt to the consumer and to the film with a poor transfer, then yes....the studio deserves all the flack and loss of respect it gets. It works both ways, it's a two way street. I would have more respect if a studio simply came out and said we are only going to put out a quarter or less of the Blu-rays this year in order to do it right. Quality over quantity. I would have more respect for them if they just came out and said, it's too expensive to do, sorry it will never come out. If you can't make a profit and do the right thing in the process without resorting to making money passing off bad transfers , then you clearly have no integrity and a loss of respect is justified and warrented.

[Maggot]

Originally Posted by QuasidodoJr

There's no real way to do this, though. In the state the U.S. economy is in, not everyone can contractually agree to afford a higher priced title whenever it hits shelves. I'm sure there would be no way to force people to pay, and the studio would lose out if too many people changed their minds.

As for the DNR comment - a lot of people that just want movies to look shiny on their new tv screen, they prefer DNR to grain. I don't feel that way. You obviously don't feel that way, but there are plenty that do.

Maybe the EE will get a better transfer. Which will suck for me, because I prefer the TE cuts.

If they can't do the transfers right due to costs on them and the price that gets passed on to the customer, then don't do it at all. If the economy is a factor hold off. If that hurts the format, so be it, let it die then. Just don't put out half-assed, no integrity transfers.

[QuasidodoJr]

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

Sure you can ensure that they pay. You charge their credit card.

If the restoration effort doesn't reach it's goal and has to be called off, then the payments are refunded. Nothing lost. If the restoration effort goes through, the consumers get the discs that they've already bought and paid for in advance.

You may go for that. Even I may. But most people probably wouldn't. Most people won't put more than $5 down on any upcoming products. Even Amazon doesn't charge your card on a pre-order until it actually ships, giving you the opportunity at any time to cancel.

Originally Posted by 42041

I like what they do with many of their classics and I've always said they're the top of the heap in that regard, but I don't like the people who do their compression, I think they're genuinely bad at their job. Just about every other studio is putting out super-clean encodes that render the grain superbly, but WB tend to squeeze very little compression quality out of a given bitrate, and always go for a low one. Even the best looking title here, ROTK, seems to suffer from typical WB inefficiency. They are the biggest studio out there, everyone else has figured it out, time to get with the program already

They release more titles than every other studio. On the majority of their new releases, I think they do fine. Every other studio releases plenty of so-so low priority catalog titles, though. Either that, or they barely release any catalog titles at all (see: Disney.)


And to Maggot's last two posts:

You're speaking for yourself, though. Not the average consumer. There is thread after thread after thread on these (and any blu-ray enthusiast) forums for "more titles!" "more titles!" "more titles!" They're probably still not making much of a profit on the films they're paying out on costly restorations for now.

As for your last comment - if the studios were to take your suggestion, there would be NO home video releases anymore. No product would take hold, no format would come along. DVD is slowly dying out. People are nowhere near being entirely caught onto the concept of digital distribution. Do you think film studios will get by on theatrical ticket sales? I guess to meet your standards, we'll only see about 10 movies release at the box office, per year, as well.

I don't see where you're going with this rant of your's.

[Maggot]

Originally Posted by QuasidodoJr

You may go for that. Even I may. But most people probably wouldn't. Most people won't put more than $5 down on any upcoming products. Even Amazon doesn't charge your card on a pre-order until it actually ships, giving you the opportunity at any time to cancel.

They release more titles than every other studio. On the majority of their new releases, I think they do fine. Every other studio releases plenty of so-so low priority catalog titles, though. Either that, or they barely release any catalog titles at all (see: Disney.)


And to Maggot's last two posts:

You're speaking for yourself, though. Not the average consumer. There is thread after thread after thread on these (and any blu-ray enthusiast) forums for "more titles!" "more titles!" "more titles!" They're probably still not making much of a profit on the films they're paying out on costly restorations for now.

As for your last comment - if the studios were to take your suggestion, there would be NO home video releases anymore. No product would take hold, no format would come along. DVD is slowly dying out. People are nowhere near being entirely caught onto the concept of digital distribution. Do you think film studios will get by on theatrical ticket sales? I guess to meet your standards, we'll only see about 10 movies release at the box office, per year, as well.

I don't see where you're going with this rant of your's.

Then they price themselves out of the market and go out of business. If it's so expensive to make a movie, then maybe they shouldn't be making them at all. If it's so expensive to due a proper transfer to support the format they are pushing, then maybe they shouldn't be doing them at all. If greed and corruption are at the heart of the matter, then so be it. Just don't expect respect, don't expect pleasentries exchanged. So many people around here don't seem to get the concept of integrity. It's like a 4 letter word. And since when does asking for quality and integrity in these transfers count as a rant. Excuse me for actually caring. I guess these sort of things have gone out of fashion these days. Better to white wash it, throw it under the rug.

[QuasidodoJr]

Originally Posted by Maggot

Then they price themselves out of the market and go out of business. If it's so expensive to make a movie, then maybe they shouldn't be making them at all. If it's so expensive to due a proper transfer to support the format they are pushing, then maybe they shouldn't be doing them at all. If greed and corruption are at the heart of the matter, then so be it. Just don't expect respect, don't expect pleasentries exchanged. So many people around here don't seem to get the concept of integrity. It's like a 4 letter word. And since when does asking for quality and integrity in these transfers count as a rant. Excuse me for actually caring. I guess these sort of things have gone out of fashion these days. Better to white wash it, throw it under the rug.

Do you go out of your way to praise one of the film studios when they do a great job on a blu-ray? I'll answer for you now and say, "No." Because I can guarantee you that neither you or any of the others in this thread have ever sent them a letter of the sort. Like most on the internet, people usually only get up on the soapbox when they want to complain about something.

So, I guess how it's supposed to go - if a studio doesn't put as much money into a blu-ray as it "deserves", everyone and their sister should sent them nasty letters full of vitriol. When they put forth a great transfer, we won't bother with pleasantries, either, because then it's not worth our time. That's not exactly what I would call integrity, either.

Honesty, I'm not even going to bother with the other portion of your post. What you're asking for is a complete and total change in the entertainment industry, as a whole. Not even the entertainment industry, but everything involved with it, including consumers. Sorry to say, but that's not going to happen.

[Diesel]

My mistake on the TNT/TBS thing guys

I guess I'm so used to it being on TNT I misread it.

[QuasidodoJr]

Originally Posted by Diesel

My mistake on the TNT/TBS thing guys

I guess I'm so used to it being on TNT I misread it.

Meh. Both channels crop it to a 1.78:1 ratio and stretch the picture.

[Diesel]

Originally Posted by QuasidodoJr

Meh. Both channels crop it to a 1.78:1 ratio and stretch the picture.

TBS often (though not the majority of the time) stretches a 4:3 to fit the 16:9 ratio

Ex: Independence Day

[Maggot]

Originally Posted by QuasidodoJr

Do you go out of your way to praise one of the film studios when they do a great job on a blu-ray? I'll answer for you now and say, "No." Because I can guarantee you that neither you or any of the others in this thread have ever sent them a letter of the sort. Like most on the internet, people usually only get up on the soapbox when they want to complain about something.

So, I guess how it's supposed to go - if the studios doesn't put as much money into a blu-ray as it "deserves", everyone and their sister should sent them nasty letters full of vitriol. When they put forth a great transfer, we won't bother with pleasantries, either, because it's not worth our time.

Studios have been putting out bad transfers since I don't know when. The vitriol as you put it is well deserved at this point. Considering the long history of this bad transfer/double dip practice, they simply don't deserve equal praise. Doing a great job on a transfer should be be the norm, period....not the exception and certainly not some feat requiring adulation. Again, this issue stems back from a long time ago and here we see it again. Respect and trust is earned and quite frankly, they've got a long way to go, a long way to make up and their practices don't seem to have changed all that much.

[llama]

Having recently read the review, I'm simultaneously dissapointed and happy with the video. Dissapointed because it's apparently a less-than-amazing transfer, but happy because of the aspect ratio. So very happy...I hope that they do a better job with the Extended Edition's video, and in any case I hope that they do the whole 2.41:1 thing again.

Honestly, I'll rent them just to see them in that ratio.

[svenge]

Does anyone know a good oncologist? FotR's transfer just gave me eye cancer...

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Why is it that this website's review states there's a problem with Edge Enhancement on these BDs - yet in the 60 or so screen caps I've seen from these discs, I can discern not a single trace of it at all?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

True, but what if by "master" WB means that they took the same source that was used for the HD broadcast, cleaned it with a DRS/DNR toolkit, and then "mastered" that.

Well, it’s still “new” (and costs thousands of dollars) so, you should not deny them that effort. I would really doubt that they started with the “old” HD broadcast master.

See my thread for a follow-up post.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by svenge

Does anyone know a good oncologist? FotR's transfer just gave me eye cancer...

http://www.cityofhope.org/Pages/default.aspx

[RyRyMcNizzy13]

all i know is i have no choice to buty this now cause of me seeing this thread every day is making me crave LOTR badly.