ESPN's "30 For 30" Discussion

[WyldeMan45]

I love this ESPN sports film series. Has anybody else been watching? The first episode I actually saw was awhile back, and focused on Allen Iverson and the bowling alley incident in '92.

This past weeks episode was directed by Ice Cube and titled "Straight Outta LA" in which he focused on his belief of how gangsta rap helped form the Raider Nation during the 80's.

'Straight Outta L.A.' - Players with attitude

A quick review of Ice Cube's contribution to the "30 for 30" series coming up just as soon as I undergo intensive therapy to wipe my memory of the image of Al Davis in HD...

I saw "Straight Outta LA" a few weeks ago at the Tribeca Film Festival, which had its pluses and minuses. On the plus side: I got to hear all the NWA lyrics, and all of the discussion of their lyrics and the group's name, without any bleeping. I have no idea how much of the episode had to be bleeped or otherwise altered for broadcast, but I imagine it was a fair amount. On the negative side: Al was even scarier on a big screen than I'm sure he was on your TV.

Getting Davis to talk was a coup for Cube, and helped separate "Straight Outta LA" from other attempts to tell the story of the LA Raiders. (NFL Films' "America's Game" on the '83 Super Bowl team - with Marcus Allen, Howie Long and Todd Christensen as its three talking heads - was near-identical in spots to what Cube did.) Terrifying and self-contradicting though he may be, it's hard to tell the story of the Raiders - or of pro football over the last 40 years - without Al Davis.

The attempt to spin the film around the ties between the Raiders and gangsta rap was interesting but not always successful. The film is structured in a way that suggests that groups like NWA rose during the glory years of the LA Raiders, when in fact the group was hitting it big at the exact moment things were going south for the football team during the Mike Shanahan era. The group's love of the team (and their imposing yet gang-neutral colors) was obvious, but I actually think the whole hip-hop/football link might have been even more compelling had Cube and the others talked about how team and group were on divergent paths - and how NWA was celebrating a mighty, intimidating team that didn't really exist anymore.

In a similar vein, Cube keeps insisting that LA will always be the Raiders home. And while I'm sure that's true to him and a generation of LA kids like him, the team's been in Oakland more than three times as long as it was in LA, won 2 of its 3 Super Bowls and 3 of its 4 championships in Oakland, were coached by John Madden there, featured more of the franchise's Hall of Famers there, etc. The LA Raiders loom large in Cube's childhood, and his rise to stardom, but the LA period (particularly the segment of that period where the team was still dominant) was a blip on the franchise's radar.

The "30 for 30" films are designed to be subjective, so of course a film made by Ice Cube would view the team in this way. I just think if he had had the ability to take a step back from himself and view that time period without his own preconceptions, the film might have been even stronger as it dealt with how a forward-looking genre like '80s gangsta rap wound up embracing nostalgia almost from the outset.

Still, fun film, particularly Snoop Dogg getting philosophical and the animated segments on Cube's childhood and the origins of NWA.

[Alexias_dad]

I wish they talked more about the raiders and not so much on n.w.a. i mean it was suppose to be about sports and not gangster rap. oh and snoop needs to stop faking it , damn steeler fan.

[supersix4]

Originally Posted by Alexias_dad

I wish they talked more about the raiders and not so much on n.w.a. i mean it was suppose to be about sports and not gangster rap. oh and snoop needs to stop faking it , damn steeler fan.

lol really even though it was interesting I wish it had been more on the raiders.

But all the 30 for 30's I've seen I've loved which says allot about the product.

[WyldeMan45]

Originally Posted by Alexias_dad

I wish they talked more about the raiders and not so much on n.w.a. i mean it was suppose to be about sports and not gangster rap. oh and snoop needs to stop faking it , damn steeler fan.

Yeah the part with Snoop made me laugh too cause he is a very open Steelers fan, so to be claiming to be a lifelong die hard Raiders fan just proves what a fraud he is. I really liked seeing the old footage of the Raiders when they didn't completely suck, but yeah Ice Cube pretty much makes it sound like him and N.W.A. are the reason Raider nation was so huge during the 80s. It didn't have anything to do with their near perfect record seasons, lol. What a big head on that guy.

Originally Posted by supersix4

But all the 30 for 30's I've seen I've loved which says allot about the product.

I've seen about 5 of these now, and I think Run Ricky Run has been my favorite episode yet.

[supersix4]

Originally Posted by WyldeMan45

I've seen about 5 of these now, and I think Run Ricky Run has been my favorite episode yet.

That was really good, I thought he just loved pot and didn't give a crap(which I could careless about), but it shows he's really got some issues going on that hopefully he's gotten straightened out.

[WyldeMan45]

Originally Posted by supersix4

That was really good, I thought he just loved pot and didn't give a crap(which I could careless about), but it shows he's really got some issues going on that hopefully he's gotten straightened out.

His dad was such a piece of shit. But yeah there was so much I didn't know about Ricky that was just never ever discussed publicly, that made me see the guy in a new light.

[STARSCREAM]

Love this series too. The first one was about the Miami Hurricanes. Since then I've seen bits and pieces of a few of them. I need to catch up on all of them.

[WyldeMan45]

Originally Posted by STARSCREAM

Love this series too. The first one was about the Miami Hurricanes. Since then I've seen bits and pieces of a few of them. I need to catch up on all of them.

I missed the entire first season and half of the second, I only discovered it after reading Alan Sepinwall's reviews for it. I gotta look into getting some discs myself.

[bootsy]

Originally Posted by Alexias_dad

I wish they talked more about the raiders and not so much on n.w.a. i mean it was suppose to be about sports and not gangster rap. oh and snoop needs to stop faking it , damn steeler fan.

That was the purpose of the episode was to intertwine gangsta rap and the Raiders. What were you expecting.

Anyway I agree with you on Snoop who is with the team that is hot especially when it comes to football.

[bootsy]

The best 30 for 30 episodes were Winning Time: Reggie Miller vs. The New York Knicks, Without Bias, Muhammad and Larry, The Legend of Jimmy The Greek, Guru of Go, and The U. The Iverson one was not very good mainly because all the main people involved wouldn't talk so I didn't get anything out of it that I already had going in.

[WyldeMan45]

Originally Posted by bootsy

The best 30 for 30 episodes were Winning Time: Reggie Miller vs. The New York Knicks, Without Bias, Muhammad and Larry, The Legend of Jimmy The Greek, Guru of Go, and The U. The Iverson one was not very good mainly because all the main people involved wouldn't talk so I didn't get anything out of it that I already had going in.

Yeah I found that Iverson one to be informative but at the same time disappointing. What is the point of trying to paint a picture of a misunderstood player who doesn't even give a damn about telling his side of the story. He had no interest in events that happened 18 years ago, so I didn't really understand why they chose to make that. Nobody really seemed to want to be open and honest which was the polar opposite of Run Ricky Run which I thought was excellent.

[bootsy]

Originally Posted by WyldeMan45

Yeah I found that Iverson one to be informative but at the same time disappointing. What is the point of trying to paint a picture of a misunderstood player who doesn't even give a damn about telling his side of the story. He had no interest in events that happened 18 years ago, so I didn't really understand why they chose to make that. Nobody really seemed to want to be open and honest which was the polar opposite of Run Ricky Run which I thought was excellent.

I just took it as the key people afraid to talk. Most of them probably still live in that area, have jobs in that area and don't want to jeopardize discussing a highly volatile case. It would be nice if they could get some of the key components to actually discuss it but I don't see it happening which is a shame. The Ricky Williams one was a lot better because everyone opened about Ricky and Ricky also was a willing participant.

[WyldeMan45]

Originally Posted by bootsy

I just took it as the key people afraid to talk. Most of them probably still live in that area, have jobs in that area and don't want to jeopardize discussing a highly volatile case. It would be nice if they could get some of the key components to actually discuss it but I don't see it happening which is a shame. The Ricky Williams one was a lot better because everyone opened about Ricky and Ricky also was a willing participant.

I still cannot believe Ricky's father came on there to deny what he did, even though there was a photo, and than when they asked his daughter from his other family about him, her refusing to talk about him just spoke volumes and confirmed what that "man" had been denying.

[bootsy]

Originally Posted by WyldeMan45

I still cannot believe Ricky's father came on there to deny what he did, even though there was a photo, and than when they asked his daughter from his other family about him, her refusing to talk about him just spoke volumes and confirmed what that "man" had been denying.

Yeah he was pretty pathetic. I didn't expect him to admit right there but he should have at least taken some accountability. I would have accepted if he had just said he used poor judgment but he just flat out denied it.

[WyldeMan45]

Originally Posted by bootsy

Yeah he was pretty pathetic. I didn't expect him to admit right there but he should have at least taken some accountability. I would have accepted if he had just said he used poor judgment but he just flat out denied it.

Yeah, and the fact that he claimed to not even remember the incident that sent him to jail and is the reason he is a registered sex offender. Right, "it just slipped my mind." I don't even want to imagine what he did to the rest of his family.

[MosHighDef]

what a joke. I mean i respect NWA for their time, but seriously how long is being a thug and stabbing and shooting people going to last? Exactly why the Raiders didnt last in LA, way to many thugs,cholos,and convicts in the mix at the games.

[WyldeMan45]

Originally Posted by MosHighDef

what a joke. I mean i respect NWA for their time, but seriously how long is being a thug and stabbing and shooting people going to last? Exactly why the Raiders didnt last in LA, way to many thugs,cholos,and convicts in the mix at the games.

That was one part I found funny, Ice Cube prided himself on how violent the raider nation was. I played football for 12 years and I get it's a very violent sport but we always kept it on the field lol. I think they missed the part about it being a sport, and just incorporated the logo into gang culture cause like they said, I pirate was tough. Completely missed the entire point of the sport and just brought a lot of crime and problems into the stadium. They didn't seem to care a lot about football, it was just the name and the insignia, that's why they had made sure they where wearing head to toe raiders swag for all photo ops. It's always been hard for me to take Ice Cube and especially Snoop serious. I don't think it's even possible to take Snoop serious, he's made a complete parody out of himself.

[fatediesel]

I really enjoyed the most recent 30 For 30, June 17, 1994. Although I was only 11 on this day but I still remember it well, but I didn't remember how much happened that day: Arnold Palmer's final round at the US Open, the World Cup opening ceremonies, the New York Rangers victory parade, game 5 of the Knicks-Rockets NBA Finals, a random Mariners-Royals game they showed numerous times for some reason, and of course, the biggie, the mania surrounding OJ Simpson and the White Bronco chase. Before it started the director said that the documentary didn't have a narrator, it would just showed clips from the time, which I didn't think I would like but worked well. I especially liked some of the behind the scenes footage they somehow got, like Bob Costas talking to producers and clearly getting annoyed that they were cutting away from a live NBA Finals game for a car chase that every other station was showing. I didn't remember a lot of the OJ stuff, like the late lawyer Robert Kardashian (yes, he was Kim, Kourtney and Khloe's dad) reading a suicide letter from OJ and OJ having a gun to his head during the chase. I would put this up there with The U as my favorite 30 for 30.

The next 30 for 30, The Two Escobars looks good too. It is the tale of the lives and deaths of Columbian drug kingpin Pablo Escobar and soccer star Andres Escobar. This airs tomorrow and then there's no new episodes until late July.

[bootsy]

Originally Posted by fatediesel

I really enjoyed the most recent 30 For 30, June 17, 1994. Although I was only 11 on this day but I still remember it well, but I didn't remember how much happened that day: Arnold Palmer's final round at the US Open, the World Cup opening ceremonies, the New York Rangers victory parade, game 5 of the Knicks-Rockets NBA Finals, a random Mariners-Royals game they showed numerous times for some reason, and of course, the biggie, the mania surrounding OJ Simpson and the White Bronco chase. Before it started the director said that the documentary didn't have a narrator, it would just showed clips from the time, which I didn't think I would like but worked well. I especially liked some of the behind the scenes footage they somehow got, like Bob Costas talking to producers and clearly getting annoyed that they were cutting away from a live NBA Finals game for a car chase that every other station was showing. I didn't remember a lot of the OJ stuff, like the late lawyer Robert Kardashian (yes, he was Kim, Kourtney and Khloe's dad) reading a suicide letter from OJ and OJ having a gun to his head during the chase. I would put this up there with The U as my favorite 30 for 30.

The next 30 for 30, The Two Escobars looks good too. It is the tale of the lives and deaths of Columbian drug kingpin Pablo Escobar and soccer star Andres Escobar. This airs tomorrow and then there's no new episodes until late July.

I have the June 17th 1994 on my DVT but haven't watched it yet. I look forward to it and also the Two Escobars. I remember that day and it was probably one of the most surreal days I can remember. The only days to compare that day to are 9/11, Michael Jackson's death, and the verdict of the OJ trial. Those days I will always remember where I was when it happened.

[fatediesel]

I'm anxious for the 5-part, 8-hour OJ Simpson 30 for 30 which premieres on ABC Saturday night. I've read several reviews and all have been overwhelmingly positive, with multiple reviews calling it the best thing ESPN has ever produced.