1.85 movie on a 16X9 TV??? HELP

[mattnotis]

I recently got a 42'' Panny G25 and popped in Funny People last night. I was watching it in THX mode and noticed there are still subtle black bars on the top and bottom. I thought 1.85 movies were supposed to fill the screen? Is my set defective or is this how it's supposed to be? Thanks!

[BladeRunner2007]

Everything is absolutely okay. It's supposed to be like this. 1.78:1 completely fills your screen.

[Bishop_99]

1.78:1 will fill your entire screen, 1.85:1 will have some very small black bars. Some studios will remove the matting of the films with a ratio of 1.85:1 to fill up your screen.

[HD Goofnut]

I made this guide a long time ago and I re-post to help people out with aspect ratios.

Per the director each movie is filmed using a certain frame or aspect ratio. Below are the most common aspect ratios and what kind of bars (if any) they produce on a 16:9 HDTV.

1.33:1-Extra Large Pillarboxing. Most older TV shows and even a few newer ones use this because they are still catering to the older 4:3 sets.

1.37:1-Large Pillarboxing. Used for virtually all films made before 1950.
(ex: The Wizard of Oz, Casablanca, Gone With the Wind)

1.66:1-Small Pillarboxing. Used for a small percentage of mainly older films. (ex: Memphis Belle, Dr. Strangelove, and the older Bond movies)

1.78:1-No boxes. Screen is completely filled and this also referred to as 16:9. This is used for most modern TV shows and many films that were originally shot in 1.85:1.

1.85:1-Small letterboxing. Used for a large percentage of current and older films.

2.20:1-Medium letterboxing. Occasionally used in films. (ex: Ghostbusters and 2001)

2.35:1/2.40:1-Large Letterboxing. Used for a large percentage of current and older films.

2.76:1-Extra Large Letterboxing. Rarely used for mainly older films. (ex: Ben Hur)

The only time you're going to have a Blu-ray fill or virtually fill your screen is when its aspect ratio is 1.66:1, 1.78:1, or 1.85:1.

[mattnotis]

Ah, OK. Thanks for clearing that up!

[42041]

Additionally, some people may not see the black bars on 1.85:1 movies because their TV overscans the edges of the image.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by mattnotis

Ah, OK. Thanks for clearing that up!

No problem.

[The Blu Knight]

Originally Posted by 42041

Additionally, some people may not see the black bars on 1.85:1 movies because their TV overscans the edges of the image.

Yeah my TV was overscanning my blus like Monsters, Inc., and after coming to this site and learning more about aspect ratios, I fiddled with the settings and now I've got the whole image.

[Exist2Inspire]

Yeah, I had that problem too, except my Sony TV doesn't like displaying in 1.85. Every time I do, there is a fine purple line of pixels at the bottom of the screen that is distracting ><

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

I made this guide a long time ago and I re-post to help people out with aspect ratios.

Per the director each movie is filmed using a certain frame or aspect ratio. Below are the most common aspect ratios and what kind of bars (if any) they produce on a 16:9 HDTV.

1.33:1-Extra Large Pillarboxing. Most older TV shows and even a few newer ones use this because they are still catering to the older 4:3 sets.

1.37:1-Large Pillarboxing. Used for virtually all films made before 1950.
(ex: The Wizard of Oz, Casablanca, Gone With the Wind)

1.66:1-Small Pillarboxing. Used for a small percentage of mainly older films. (ex: Memphis Belle, Dr. Strangelove, and the older Bond movies)

1.78:1-No boxes. Screen is completely filled and this also referred to as 16:9. This is used for most modern TV shows and many films that were originally shot in 1.85:1.

1.85:1-Small letterboxing. Used for a large percentage of current and older films.

2.20:1-Medium letterboxing. Occasionally used in films. (ex: Ghostbusters and 2001)

2.35:1/2.40:1-Large Letterboxing. Used for a large percentage of current and older films.

2.76:1-Extra Large Letterboxing. Rarely used for mainly older films. (ex: Ben Hur)

The only time you're going to have a Blu-ray fill or virtually fill your screen is when its aspect ratio is 1.66:1, 1.78:1, or 1.85:1.

The above is a great guide. Here's a few more details behind these aspect ratios for those who like knowing 'the whole story':

1.33: Used for silent films and sound films before the advent of sound on film. However most silent films we see today are from newer prints and are actually 1.37 or (unfortunately) cropped to 1.85. 1.33 is referred to as Academy Ratio.

1.37: All sound films until about 1954. Also referred to as Academy Ratio and as "1.33" even though it's actually 1.37:1. This is based on a projected image size of .825" x .6". Note how this uses more print area than all the other 35mm spherical formats even though it will fill less of your HD TV screen, resulting in higher quality. That's why so many old films like Casablanca have less grain than more modern films.

1.66:1 Mainly used for non-U.S. films based on a projected frame size of .825 x .497"

1.75:1 Another mostly-European aspect ratio and sometimes used for Disney films, based on a projected frame size of .825 x .471"

1.85:1 The standard 35mm spherical aspect ratio since the introduction of widescreen movies in 1954. Rather than "a large percentage", the vast majority of films throughout the world that are shot on film are shot in this aspect ratio. The projected frame size is .825 x .446. The industry would have made things so much easier if the aspect ratio for HDTV was 1.85:1, because the vast majority of movies would have filled the screen exactly. The Director's Guild actually wanted 2.0:1 as a compromise between 1.85 movies and 2.35/2.40 movies.

2.2:1 This was the aspect ratio for virtually all 70mm films that were presented with spherical lenses regardless of whether they were shot in 65mm or blown-up from 35mm. Note that 35mm films which were blown up to 70mm (some 70mm films from 1963 and all 70mm films after 1971 except for Tron, Brainstorm, The Black Cauldron, Far and Away and Baraka) actually had some horizontal cropping when presented in 70mm.

2.35:1/2.40:1 This is the aspect ratio for Cinemascope, Panavision and other anamorphic films. The projected frame size is .838 x .7 x a 2:1 horizontal expansion via the anamorphic lens. Note that this uses so much more of the frame as compared to 1.85 and similar spherical formats. The reason why the standard was changed from 2.35 to 2.4:1 (which was a reduction in height) was because lab splices could be seen on the screen.

There's a way to create an anamorphic print without shooting with anamorphic lenses. The film is shot only 2-perfs high (instead of the usual 4-perfs). In the lab, the film is expanded vertically to 4-perfs. That makes it the same format as a squeezed print. (I personally hate this format because you get grain the size of golf balls, since so little negative area is used, but some filmmakers and many cinematographers prefer it because there's a greater choice of lenses and studios like it because it uses half the amount of negative stock. Even Spielberg has shot this way.)

2.55:1 When anamorphic Cinemascope was first introduced in the 1950s, it was intended to be 2.55:1, not 2.35:1 but movie theatre owners screamed because the prints contained only mag tracks, not standard optical tracks. So to make room for optical tracks they had to change the frame size. But there were a few films made in this format, beginning with The Robe.

2.75:1 These were films shot in 65mm that had a 1.25 squeeze added to them. (2.2 x 1.25 = 2.75:1). This was mostly used for "single projector Cinerama" when Cinerama switched from 3 35mm projectors to 1 70mm projector. This process was known as Ultra-Panavision. There were only six films shot in this process, beginning with "It's A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World". Ben Hur was shot in Camera 65, which was essentially the same process, but most theatres projected it at 2.5:1.

Hope this helps.

[dcowboy7]

Originally Posted by Exist2Inspire

Yeah, I had that problem too, except my Sony TV doesn't like displaying in 1.85. Every time I do, there is a fine purple line of pixels at the bottom of the screen that is distracting ><

On my sony in the setup menu there is an option that has 3 options & says something like 0, +1, +2 pixels.

It will edge the picture differently on each selection so that might help.

[Exist2Inspire]

Originally Posted by dcowboy7

On my sony in the setup menu there is an option that has 3 options & says something like 0, +1, +2 pixels.

It will edge the picture differently on each selection so that might help.

Yeah, mine has something like Normal, Full Pixel (1.85), +1, +2, but once I go Full Pixel i get that line. And an annoying thing is, as soon as the video source changes (1080p to 1080i for example) it will reset back to normal.

[steve_dave]

My Sony offers:

+1, Full Pixel, Normal, -1, -2

Full pixel is only available with 1080i/p signals over HDMI and component.

+1, which is the same as Full Pixel, is only available for 480i/p, 720i/p and 1080i through the HDMI connection.

Normal simply presents the image as sent over the connection with default overscan for component, S-Video, and composite connections.

-1 and -2 force more overscan of the image.

My all-region player is connected component but since it maxes out at 576p, I can only choose Normal so I get overscan with my import DVDs. I do not have an HDMI connection on my DVD player to test if +1 or Full Pixel is available for 576i/p signals.

[TitansFan4Life]

I think it's lame that there hasn't been a universal aspect ratio. If everything filled the TV, that would be perfect. Just film everything in the same format. I don't see why that's so hard to do.

[BStecke]

I think music should all be recorded in the same time signature, too.

[Exist2Inspire]

Originally Posted by TitansFan4Life

I think it's lame that there hasn't been a universal aspect ratio. If everything filled the TV, that would be perfect. Just film everything in the same format. I don't see why that's so hard to do.

Artistic Choice, and that different ratios do different things. While a 1.78 image will fill up the screen, a 2.35/2.40 shot is much wider and can have more in focus.

Look at the Alliance release of Se7en. The 1.78 completely destroys the movies geometry, while the proper ratio of 2.35 works with perfect geometry set by the director.

[Majestyk]

My Pioneer Plasma overscans 1.85:1 so it fills the whole screen.

[42041]

Originally Posted by Majestyk

My Pioneer Plasma overscans 1.85:1 so it fills the whole screen.

You should set it to dot-by-dot so it doesn't do that. You're throwing away perfectly good resolution.

[retablo]

Originally Posted by TitansFan4Life

I think it's lame that there hasn't been a universal aspect ratio. If everything filled the TV, that would be perfect. Just film everything in the same format. I don't see why that's so hard to do.

Filled the TV? Movies are kind of meant to be seen in the THEATER though. Movies existed for 50 years before TV was even around, so why should everything "fit the TV?"

[arcadeforest]

Great info on aspect ratios. This answered many questions for me.