81:19 Nielsen/VideoScan Weekly Sales Numbers

[pflieger]

Originally Posted by xcg001

I am mostly lurker on this forum but you are either trying to stir the debate or you are extremely gullible (not to use any stronger word).
There is absolutely no way Paramount to knew on Monday when they announced 190k number to know how much really was sold in retail by the end of previous day (Sunday). They don't have infrastructure similar to Nielsen reporting from POS and even Nielsen First Alert is not available until Wednesday - it takes signifficant efford to verify a data even coming from automated feed.
Also about Sony numbers - these numbers are as clear as possible - 400k shipped to retailers (AKA "sold" to retailers) and 130k sold to customers - the real number. The number Paramount cited (190k) corresponds to the 400k Sony gave. Actually I do believe even 300 numbers Warner cited was also sold to retailers but in the 300 case sold to retailers was almost equal to sold to customers since there was a shortage of 300 and people were going from store to store first week to find a copy.
So in summary all tree studios reported sold/shipped to retailers numbers:

300 - 250k shipped with 70-80% sell-tru first week (110K BR + 56K HD-DVD reported on first alert, which covers ~80% of all HD business)
Transformers - 190k shipped with 110-115k sold ~60% sell-tru (89K First Alert)
Spiderman 3 - 400k shipped with 130k sold - ~30% sell-tru first week (my guess for the first alert number would be ~105K which is 80% of 130k)

If you recalculate last week Videoscan numbers from HMM using 100-105K for Spiderman 3 combined you will notice that the constant sellers like 300 BR almost exactly matches with hard number (around 3000) that we know from previous week - and I am not even accounting for slight spike that may come from 40GB PS3 release that week.

Does all that make sense to you now or you really are a troll?
All these numbers for 300 and Transformers are from Niki article and are not disputed by anybody (even in their lame attempt to pass shipped as sold Paramount were afraid to dispute the number since being a publicly traded company will cause them a lot of grief if they are caught lying).
The only number I guessed in my previous calculations is the First Alert number for Spiderman 3 - as ~80% from 130K but that matches correctly with other titles percentages from last HMM magazine. The reason why I believe First Alert for HD media is 80% versus 60% for the DVDs is because HD media is sold much more through big retailers like Amazon, BB, CC, Fry that are included in First Alert numbers than for the DVD media. There is a lot of mom and pop shot selling DVD for cheap than DB/HD-DVD. And even if it is not 80% it doesn't really matter since the same metric (First Alert number) was used for all 3 movies compared.

Good someone who actually provided some information for me to read and think over.

Thank you, I'll read it and see if it matches up with all the other information I've read from other good sources.

[common_sense]

You can believe what you want, but I and the millions of blu-ray buyers are showing our support for blu-ray with our pocket books. TF is the only thing for hd-dvd to cling to.

[gand41f]

Originally Posted by xcg001

I am mostly lurker on this forum but you are either trying to stir the debate or you are extremely gullible (not to use any stronger word).
There is absolutely no way Paramount to knew on Monday when they announced 190k number to know how much really was sold in retail by the end of previous day (Sunday). They don't have infrastructure similar to Nielsen reporting from POS and even Nielsen First Alert is not available until Wednesday - it takes signifficant efford to verify a data even coming from automated feed.
Also about Sony numbers - these numbers are as clear as possible - 400k shipped to retailers (AKA "sold" to retailers) and 130k sold to customers - the real number. The number Paramount cited (190k) corresponds to the 400k Sony gave. Actually I do believe even 300 numbers Warner cited was also sold to retailers but in the 300 case sold to retailers was almost equal to sold to customers since there was a shortage of 300 and people were going from store to store first week to find a copy.
So in summary all tree studios reported sold/shipped to retailers numbers:

300 - 250k shipped with 70-80% sell-tru first week (110K BR + 56K HD-DVD reported on first alert, which covers ~80% of all HD business)
Transformers - 190k shipped with 110-115k sold ~60% sell-tru (89K First Alert)
Spiderman 3 - 400k shipped with 130k sold - ~30% sell-tru first week (my guess for the first alert number would be ~105K which is 80% of 130k)

If you recalculate last week Videoscan numbers from HMM using 100-105K for Spiderman 3 combined you will notice that the constant sellers like 300 BR almost exactly matches with hard number (around 3000) that we know from previous week - and I am not even accounting for slight spike that may come from 40GB PS3 release that week.

Does all that make sense to you now or you really are a troll?
All these numbers for 300 and Transformers are from Niki article and are not disputed by anybody (even in their lame attempt to pass shipped as sold Paramount were afraid to dispute the number since being a publicly traded company will cause them a lot of grief if they are caught lying).
The only number I guessed in my previous calculations is the First Alert number for Spiderman 3 - as ~80% from 130K but that matches correctly with other titles percentages from last HMM magazine. The reason why I believe First Alert for HD media is 80% versus 60% for the DVDs is because HD media is sold much more through big retailers like Amazon, BB, CC, Fry that are included in First Alert numbers than for the DVD media. There is a lot of mom and pop shot selling DVD for cheap than DB/HD-DVD. And even if it is not 80% it doesn't really matter since the same metric (First Alert number) was used for all 3 movies compared.

Hell of a first post, xcg001. Welcome to the forum, nice to see another number cruncher here.

enjoy
gandalf

[richard lichtenfelt]

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...s_Numbers/1117
"As we first reported on Friday, Home Media Magazine estimates the actual number of units sold through to consumers for the week as closer to 115,000. Meanwhile, according to an online report from Deadline Hollywood, Videoscan point-of-sale data is said to put the disc at only 89,871 units sold."
This joker says he only accepts #'s from unbiased sources, yet obviously, Paramount would be the most biased source possible in this scenario.
The sites I listed above would not fabricate sales #'s as doing so would damage their credibility.

[pflieger]

Originally Posted by BluOgre

Actually the Transformer numbers have been disputed by EVERYONE except the HD camp......oh and you of course.

I'll ask again, are you telling me you count Nielsen weekly sales as some sort of Bluray propaganda?

1. I'm not the HD camp and if I was I wouldn't give a darn about Blu-Ray as a format, unless you were referring to the actual studio who sold the HD DVD discs and would or should know how many they sold, what a suprise that they would be in the HD camp!

2. Of course I didn't say Nielsen was some sort of Blu-Ray propaganda, everyone knows that they are a useful tool, maybe not drop dead accurate but close enough for most in the industry to use to see sales trends and set marketing goals and prices.

[atomik kinder]

Originally Posted by pflieger

I've never been to AVS, are you saying anyone who came here from AVS is a Troll?

And how am I a Troll when all I did is use the numbers reported by your insider and the number given by the studio.

I know you all think Sony would never stretch the truth, so I believed them and if someone could please post an unbiased link other then the one with the mystery Blu-Ray studios making a accusation against the Paramount number (if their complaint had merit they would have given their names for the record), then please do so.

I'm really sorry that someone has to be so gullible to accept every piece of information without any proof that some of you post to be not called a Troll, would you suppose I would get the same reaction from the other forums from all the HD DVD supporters if I also asked for proof of their overblown statements, I wouldn't like that either and neither would any open minded people looking to learn more about the formats.

I never disputed the numbers given for Spiderman 3 (actually I posted 5,000 more sole then all of you have been yelling about in repeated posts).

Now could we drop this particular subject unless one of you could provide a reputable link and change my mind on the Paramount numbers sold
.

If what I believed is wrong I'll post I was wrong until then drop your tired attacks, it makes you look little and petty.

LINK
Click "Blu-Ray Maintains Edge Despite Transformers" HMM is about as unbiased as you can get.

[pflieger]

Originally Posted by atomik kinder

LINK
Click "Blu-Ray Maintains Edge Despite Transformers" HMM is about as unbiased as you can get.

Thank you good read, but to make it clear I never said HD DVD was ahead of Blu-Ray in disc sales, I know it is and have never said otherwise.

But I still did not see any mention of the disputed transformers number of 190,000, if it did just tell where to look.

You on this forum have had so many Trolls coming over from AVS, since I'm not familiar with AVS, why they have come here I have no idea why, and that is probably why so many are so over sensitive to any one asking for a link or proof of an important number or statistic.

[Terjyn]

Are you blind? Or do you just not want to see?

Paramount says Transformers sold 190,000 units its first week in stores, but Home Media Magazine market research and studio estimates puts the actual number of units that sold through to consumers closer to 115,000.

This type of link has been put in this thread no less than 10 times in the last 10 pages.

Yet you keep saying no one is posting factual data to contradict you.

[Elandyll]

Originally Posted by pflieger

Thank you good read, but to make it clear I never said HD DVD was ahead of Blu-Ray in disc sales, I know it is and have never said otherwise.

But I still did not see any mention of the disputed transformers number of 190,000, if it did just tell where to look.

You on this forum have had so many Trolls coming over from AVS, since I'm not familiar with AVS, why they have come here I have no idea why, and that is probably why so many are so over sensitive to any one asking for a link or proof of an important number or statistic.

The links from unbiased sources have been given, while your 190k number only has Paramount (in a much more unclear anouncement than the Sony 400k shipped/ 130k sold).
The paramount number has been debunked (by third parties), while nobody (to my knowleddge) has attacked the Sony number.

Isn't that enough for you to chill and see the light?

[Ispoke]

Why are you guys wasting energy responding to this dude. It is obvious that the only way he will agree is if Paramount comes out and say it, we know that is not going to happen.

32 post's mainly repeating the same BS

[sj001]

There is only so many times you can repeat the facts.

It's just that some people don't want to accept them.

But deep down, they know it's true, HD-DVD is dead.

[The Guardian]

Why is this guy even still on this forum?

And who really cares about TF week anymore? We won, move along...

I'm going to guess 77:23 for this week. 3 Pixars, and toss in SM3 residuals against not much...

[CAB]

Originally Posted by The Guardian

Why is this guy even still on this forum?

And who really cares about TF week anymore? We won, move along...

I'm going to guess 77:23 for this week. 3 Pixars, and toss in SM3 residuals against not much...

Everyone who has a brain knows that Wal-mart sold the 100,000 copies of Transformers on HD needed to move the 190K. Walmart has consistently outsold all other retailers, combined, on every HD title. Incidentally, they sold no Blu-rays that week despite the POS rebates.

Hahahaha! I couldn't keep the straight face.

[GTP]

My guess is 79% BD 21% hd dvd.

[Apollo 18]

Hey. Is everyone aware that the numbers for Nov 4th included the sale on HD DVD titles at Walmart. To correspond with the A2 sale they had a sale on HD DVD titles where they were less than $15 a piece. I think it's hilarious that many of the people who picked up A2's didn't buy any HD DVD movies.

[GTP]

Originally Posted by Apollo 18

Hey. Is everyone aware that the numbers for Nov 4th included the sale on HD DVD titles at Walmart. To correspond with the A2 sale they had a sale on HD DVD titles where they were less than $15 a piece. I think it's hilarious that many of the people who picked up A2's didn't buy any HD DVD movies.

15.00, thats highway robbery compared to the four BD's I just scored at amazons bogo sale for slightly less than 8.00 each.

[atomik kinder]

Originally Posted by pflieger

Thank you good read, but to make it clear I never said HD DVD was ahead of Blu-Ray in disc sales, I know it is and have never said otherwise.

But I still did not see any mention of the disputed transformers number of 190,000, if it did just tell where to look.

You on this forum have had so many Trolls coming over from AVS, since I'm not familiar with AVS, why they have come here I have no idea why, and that is probably why so many are so over sensitive to any one asking for a link or proof of an important number or statistic.

If you have to have it pointed out directly to you... This is copied directly from the article stating that the number of HD DVD of Tranformers sold was far below the 190,000 sold, if you cannot see this then you are just trying to ignore the facts.....


Blu-ray Disc maintains its edge in the format war with rival next-gen contender HD DVD, with Blu-ray titles outselling HD DVD titles by a margin of almost two to one in the first nine months of this year.

According to a study by Home Media Magazine’s market research department, consumers bought 2.6 million Blu-ray Discs this year through Sept. 30, and just 1.4 million HD DVD discs.

Blu-ray Disc titles began outselling HD DVD titles early in the year and have consistently maintained an edge, week after week. Even Paramount Home Entertainment’s release of the DreamWorks theatrical blockbuster Transformers exclusively on the HD DVD format didn’t tip the scale last week. Though there was no hot new Blu-ray Disc release, consumers continued to buy more Blu-ray Discs than HD DVDs for the week ended Oct. 21, albeit by a slim 51% to 49% edge. Paramount says Transformers sold 190,000 units its first week in stores, but Home Media Magazine market research and studio estimates puts the actual number of units that sold through to consumers closer to 115,000.

HD DVD backers expect to see sales pick up as the fourth quarter progresses, particularly now that Paramount and DreamWorks, which previously supported both high-definition optical disc formats, announced it would henceforth release titles only in the HD DVD format.

Most analysts still see the format war as too close to call and predict both formats will continue to co-exist as the audience for high-definition discs continues to increase, growth that likely would occur faster if there was only one format.

Blu-ray Disc continues to enjoy the lion’s share of studio and consumer electronics manufacturer support. Among the six major studios, four support Blu-ray, three of them exclusively: Sony Pictures Home Entertainment, 20th Century Fox Home Entertainnment and Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment. Warner Home Video releases titles in both Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD, while Universal Studios Home Entertainment and now Paramount are exclusively in the HD DVD camp.

[atomik kinder]

Originally Posted by Terjyn

Are you blind? Or do you just not want to see?



This type of link has been put in this thread no less than 10 times in the last 10 pages.

Yet you keep saying no one is posting factual data to contradict you.

I made it bigger for him just in case.

[Slapper]

Originally Posted by atomik kinder

I made it bigger for him just in case.

You should put it in your sig.

[atomik kinder]

Originally Posted by Slapper

You should put it in your sig.

You almost made me snort Diet Coke out my nose!