INCEPTION Review Thread (SPOILERS!!)

[Hep]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

I want to see the script then.

[Show spoiler]Both times I understood it to mean that he could control a longer deep sleep with amazing stability. I still maintain that he can't effect how much longer each dream level will be perceived. That type of thing is far to deeply rooted in the human psyche to be manipulated.

I agree with your spoiler; that is the exact same meaning I got out of the dialogue.

[Blu3]

Originally Posted by Buddy Christ

[Show spoiler] Wrong,he does state he can control time with the amount of sedative.

[Show spoiler]From what I remember, the only "time" that anyone can control is the time in the real world that a person is put to sleep. Yusuuf's sedative is stronger, which they need in order to complete the job through 3 levels of dreams, but the only time it controls are the nearly 10 hours that it knocked them out for. What happens here is that each dream level is exponential to the real world time (of being asleep). That's why level 1 is approx. one week - because they are asleep in the real world for ~10 hours, and so on for the other levels. The amount of time in each dream level is a function of the amount of time you are asleep in the real world. Yusuuf cannot control the time exponentials of each dream level - when he talks about controlling time, what he's talking about is controlling time (in any level) by controlling how much time the sedative knocks you out in the real world. But there's a catch - even though they don't need that much time (in each dream level) to do the job, they do need a very stable sedative, in order to go 3 levels deep, and a sedative that strong will knock them out for many hours, which then translates to very long times in each dream level (1 week, 10 years, etc.), SO what Yusuuf does to solve this problem is keep the human ear's sense of equilibrium intact, so that a fall wakes them up.

Basically, the movie went like this: they needed a strong and stable sedative to go 3 levels deep - they found Yusuuf's sedative works, but they quickly realize that it's so strong that they will be asleep for many hours in the real world, which then means they will be stuck in the levels for too long (years), so Yusuuf develops what he calls a "kick" for them to jump out when the job is done. The only thing Yusuuf's sedative controls, as far as time goes, is the time that they are asleep in the real world. It's also designed to keep the human ear's sense of equilibrium intact. That's how I understood it.

[Buddy Christ]

I still want to know what happened to Cobbs face(it got messed up) after he left Mal to look for Saito. He did not die from the stab wound for if he did he would have gone deeper than Saito in limbo (another level down).

What happened between Mal and the beach is the only unanswered question I have.

[AJL3167]

Well didnt Fischer also die before Saito (when he was shot by Mal) and go to limbo? Why wasnt he old like Saito? Fischer died before Saito did...

Also, when the 3 went into a deeper level from the snowy bunker, was that limbo or was that just Cobb's dream? How did they find Fischer in Cobb's dream if he suppose to be in limbo?

[CYMBOL]

Originally Posted by AJL3167

Well didnt Fischer also die before Saito (when he was shot by Mal) and go to limbo? Why wasnt he old like Saito? Fischer died before Saito did...

That's a good question.

Also, when the 3 went into a deeper level from the snowy bunker, was that limbo or was that just Cobb's dream? How did they find Fischer in Cobb's dream if he suppose to be in limbo?

That was another dream "level" - not limbo.

They found Fischer by finding Mal - Cobb knew where to go to find her.

[Blu3]

Originally Posted by Buddy Christ

I still want to know what happened to Cobbs face(it got messed up) after he left Mal to look for Saito. He did not die from the stab wound for if he did he would have gone deeper than Saito in limbo (another level down).

I don't remember how his face ws messed up, can you refresh my memory?

In either case, if he would've died from Mal's stab wound, he would've woken up. I don't think there's a level below limbo. Limbo is as low as you can go.

Originally Posted by Buddy Christ

What happened between Mal and the beach is the only unanswered question I have.

That's a good question and the movie doesn't show it.

[Show spoiler]Both Fischer and Mal are in limbo (Mal kills Fischer and Cobb kills Mal in level 3). Cobb and Ariadne go in after Fischer - how do they do this? I forget - they don't kill themselves right, they just hook up to the machine to get into Fischer's dream (limbo)? Anyway, Mal kidnaps Fischer in limbo and waits for Cobb, whom she wants to live down there with her (this is just Mal's projection from Cobb, not the real Mal who committed suicide). Cobb shows up with Ariadne and sticks around after Ariadne takes Fischer back up - I thought she did this with a "kick" by falling out of the building, but if they were in limbo, it must've been them dying from the fall that actually got them out, no? Cobb stays behind with his wife and gets stabbed, while the world around them collapses - does anyone know why the world is collapsing? If it's a limbo level, it shouldn't collapse, as there's no tie to the real world or other dream levels. Maybe it collapsed due to Mal's death? In any case, it looks like when everything collapsed Cobb got swepped away in the tide and wakes up on a beach, which is part of Saito's limbo. But as you said, we don't really know how he got there, the movie doesn't show it.

[JTStarkiller]

But there's plenty of evidence that level 4 IS limbo. I'm not saying it is, but I personally can't figure out if it is or if it isn't.

[Blu3]

Originally Posted by CYMBOL

That's a good question.

+1

Originally Posted by CYMBOL

That was another dream "level" - not limbo.

I thought it might be level 4 too, but that doesn't make sense because if they die in any dream level, they get stuck in limbo, as we find out when Saito gets shot back in level 1 and they try to abort the mission. Maybe we're missing something?

Originally Posted by JTStarkiller

But there's plenty of evidence that level 4 IS limbo. I'm not saying it is, but I personally can't figure out if it is or if it isn't.

I suppose it could be. I never associated limbo with a numbered level lol

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by Buddy Christ

I still want to know what happened to Cobbs face(it got messed up) after he left Mal to look for Saito. He did not die from the stab wound for if he did he would have gone deeper than Saito in limbo (another level down).

What happened between Mal and the beach is the only unanswered question I have.

Don't know about Cobbs face.

[Show spoiler]I just saw it as a way for Nolan to show that Cobb had been through an ordeal in his trip to this limbo in question.

As for the "stab wound death to limbo" thing? Remember that Cobb & Ariadne FOLLOWED Fischer down into limbo. It was the same limbo as Saito's because you see the two of them walking through the city that Cobb & Mal created. He finds Mal based on his knowledge of what she liked best about their world together in limbo. Now, the crucial thing to take into account here is that Cobb & Ariadne are LINKED TO FISCHER via the dream machine. So, when Cobb dies from the stab wound/dream collapse situation, his psyche doesn't just remain where it is. Since it is then being DROPPED INTO ITS OWN limbo instead of being LINKED INTO SOMEONE ELSES, it would require some type of reboot scenario. Thus, losing Cobb to the kick ladder and landing him in the same boat as Saito. There is no such thing as a "deeper limbo than someone else." Limbo is limbo. So, Saito + Fischer were lost in limbo while Cobb + Ariadne were linked into limbo via Fischer. Cobb subsequently stayed behind and lost his kick link and "dropped off of the radar" and had to fall into limbo himself.

[JTStarkiller]

Did you actually see them get hooked up to Fischer? I saw it twice and was looking for it the second time, and didn't see that. I just saw the two of them hook into the machine.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by AJL3167

Well didnt Fischer also die before Saito (when he was shot by Mal) and go to limbo? Why wasnt he old like Saito? Fischer died before Saito did...

Also, when the 3 went into a deeper level from the snowy bunker, was that limbo or was that just Cobb's dream? How did they find Fischer in Cobb's dream if he suppose to be in limbo?

Originally Posted by CYMBOL

That's a good question.

That was another dream "level" - not limbo.

They found Fischer by finding Mal - Cobb knew where to go to find her.

[Show spoiler]But, Cobb + Ariadne link into Fischer way before anyone sees Saito in limbo. So, Saito has plenty of time while that whole scene takes place to age.

When the 3 went into a deeper level from the snowy bunker, THAT WAS LIMBO! You watch Cobb & Ariadne traversing the city that he and Mal created. They talk about very specific elements like the house where Mal grew up.

Cobb knew where to find her because he knew what space in their limbo was his wifes favourite.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by JTStarkiller

Did you actually see them get hooked up to Fischer? I saw it twice and was looking for it the second time, and didn't see that. I just saw the two of them hook into the machine.

[Show spoiler]If they didn't link into Fischer, they wouldn't have been able to find him and bring him back. That part of the film is edited very tightly. I pretty certain that I remember seeing them open the case, each take a wire/tube/cathader, and one of them grabbing Fischer's arm while speaking a bunch of dialogue through quick cuts. It had to be a physical link to Fischer. Otherwise, nothing would make any sense after that moment.

[Blu3]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

[Show spoiler]But, Cobb + Ariadne link into Fischer way before anyone sees Saito in limbo. So, Saito has plenty of time while that whole scene takes place to age.

[Show spoiler]But that whole scene took place at the same time level that Saito had. They all age at the same rate in limbo (same level), so Saito couldn't have aged faster while Cobb and Ariadne rescued Fischer. And Fischer should have aged a bit before Cobb and Ariadne got there, no different than Saito, no? Mal didn't because she was just Cobb's projection, and thus, never ages - this brings me another question - if Mal is just a projection from Cobb, how can she travel between dream levels without Cobb being there (in the same level as her)?

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by Blu3

[Show spoiler]But that whole scene took place at the same time level that Saito had. They all age at the same rate in limbo (same level), so Saito couldn't have aged faster while Cobb and Ariadne rescued Fischer. And Fischer should have aged a bit before Cobb and Ariadne got there, no different than Saito, no? Mal didn't because she was just Cobb's projection, and thus, never ages - this brings me another question - if Mal is just a projection from Cobb, how can she travel between dream levels without Cobb being there (in the same level as her)?

Hmmm... another question for viewing #3.

[Show spoiler]Saito/Fischer deaths in relation to one another.

As for Mal?

[Show spoiler]She is a bit more than just a projection. She is more of a manifestation. She represents Cobb's guilt, which is quite potent after all of this time of being repressed. As long as Cobb is in a subconscious state, that guilt has more power than any mere projection. She'll be able to do much more within the entire realm of the subconscious.

[Blu3]

This movie rocks

[Buddy Christ]

Cobb and Ariadne did not plug into Fishcer.

We do not know the real time that Fishcer died. We do know he was shot and apparently can be brought back through defibrillation. But I am sure it is safe to say that Fishcer reached limbo BEFORE Saito but Cobb and Ariadne got to him quite quickly after he died as opposed to how long Cobb took to find Saito.

Cobb/Ariadne --->Fisher =minute
Cobb ----> Saito four to five minutes.

If at level four 10 hours is fifty years then at level five maybe five minutes is like 30 years???I dunno

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by Buddy Christ

Cobb and Ariadne did not plug into Fishcer.
We do not know the real time that Fishcer died. We do know he was shot and apparently can be brought back through defibrillation. But I am sure it is safe to say that Fishcer reached limbo BEFORE Saito but Cobb and Ariadne got to him quite quickly after he died as opposed to how long Cobb took to find Saito.

Cobb/Ariadne --->Fisher =minute
Cobb ----> Saito four to five minutes.

If at level four 10 hours is fifty years then at level five maybe five minutes is like 30 years???I dunno

[Show spoiler]I distinctly remember seeing Ariadne falling asleep after handling a dream machine briefcase in the hospital (military base) dream structure. Cobb & her must have used the same technique as every other situation in order to get to where Fischer had gone after being shot. Otherwise, there is no way for them to get to limbo where Cobb confronts Mal.

[Blu3]

Originally Posted by Buddy Christ

Cobb and Ariadne did not plug into Fishcer. - Blue3: I think they did. Eamus plugged them in. I think that machine was a dream machine, not a defribilator - We do not know the real time that Fishcer died - Blue3: he died after Mal shot him twice - . We do know he was shot and apparently can be brought back through defibrillation - Blue3: I think that was a dream machine, not a defribilator - . But I am sure it is safe to say that Fishcer reached limbo BEFORE Saito but Cobb and Ariadne got to him quite quickly after he died as opposed to how long Cobb took to find Saito - Blue3: how long it took Cobb to reach any of them should make no difference, since they are all on the same level (limbo), and thus, age at the same rate - .

Cobb/Ariadne --->Fisher =minute
Cobb ----> Saito four to five minutes.

If at level four 10 hours is fifty years then at level five maybe five minutes is like 30 years???I dunno - Blue3: there is no level lower than limbo, Saito was at the same level as Cobb and Fischer (and Ariadne and Cobb's wife) -

-

[Foggy]

This film has the most votes on it's poll than any other (it's beaten Iron Man 2)

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by Blu3

-

Dude... you do a horrible job in resonding to other peoples posts. It looks like you are just highlighting what someone else has said. Then, once reading, it looks like the person you quoted is contradicting themself repeatedly.

When you click on Quote, look at the way the text is wrapped in "[QUOOTE]" and "[/QUOOTE]" minus those extra O's. You really should isolate sections of the post and use those tags. Type your response in between.