81:19 Nielsen/VideoScan Weekly Sales Numbers

[JAGUAR1977]

Originally Posted by OokieSpookie

I completely agree about other boards.
And this board is much much better than others.
I will say though that quite a few different occasions if you dare express any concern or whatever you are immediately brushed off or attacked which is just dumb.
(Don't get me wrong, I also see quite a few drama queens who do not even bother to look into any facts before trying to stir things up also so I can kind of understand the response all and all).

I apologise for having a go, I think I've just reached that point were I'm no longer happy with the so called fun and games of this format war.

I just want to watch all movies with one machine.

This Christmas I was going to buy a second player, and encourage my parents to buy a Blu-ray player.

I'm now considering ditching the lot, yet all I hear from insiders are so called comforting words about gradually introducing Blu-ray into the market, which would be all well and good, IF THERE WAS NO FORMAT WAR.

Blu-ray owners are expected to dig deep for new releases and BOGO's, well how about the manufactuers taking a hit with hobbled 1.0 players, sell a few hundred thousand at $299, take the burdon of the smaller Blu-ray standalone user base and often fickle PS3 crowd (I use a PS3 BTW, I'm talking about the majority who don't buy Blu-ray movies regularly).

I'd have no problem with current pricing if we could guarantee retaining all studios, and get Paramount back in 12 months time, but we all know it's 50/50 on Warner, and who knows about Paramount.

Let's face it, Universal are losing sales hand over fist being HD-DVD exclusive, yet there are no rumours of them coming to Blu-ray, which you'd expect to be reaching fever pitch at this stage!

The goliath, Blu-ray, is the one who's always on the back foot, despite apparent market dominance, fearful of little old HD-DVD snatching studios and selling hundreds of thousands of standalones.

[kowhite]

I suppose Ookie...ultimately, the hardware price issue is something that can be addressed if need be. If things did get to a point that they looked so dire, hardware price is a card that they still can play.

So while it annoys me in that it doesn't bring this format war to a quicker conclusion...I see it this way...if things did get to a point where it was needed, it IS still something the BDA can do. I'd be more concerned if the pricing disparity was due to manufacturing costs...and not pricing strategies. But since it is the latter...it always leaves the door open to fight on that front if the BDA thinks it necessary. I know we'd prefer it, but obviously slow and steady seems more important to the BDA than swooping in for the kill at their own expense.

Now I completely understand the frustration of you and others about this. I'd prefer the BDA just take some massive losses and end this thing...cause ultimately, I bought into HDM to watch movies...and in one place. But ultimately, I look for the long term prize...and my mind is no different than when I bought in...BD will win...the only thing that keeps changing is how long until they do.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by OokieSpookie

I will be honest, I think Sony would do anything to keep an equal quality BD player as the PS3 from hitting 300 or lower for at least another six months out of fear that it will affect PS3 sales.

Why the fixation with Sony? There are plenty of other CEs that make Blu-ray players. They could lower their prices without worrying about the PS3, 'cause they don't make it.

Nothing is preventing, say, Samsung from blowing out all their Profile 1.0 players. (As an aside, I think that all BD player manufacturers should be blowing out their 1.0 players and introducing 1.1 models...)

[T-Wrecks]

that Sony is the "Vanguard" for the Blu-ray front and is selling PS3s to ensure an install base so that other companies can, in fact, maintain a profit margin down the road?

Does no one else get that Sony is taking big losses short term AND saturating the market so that its business partners can build and sell standalones that make them money 6-12 months down the line?

Sure the attach rate isn't as high for PS3 gamers, but there is, in fact, AN ATTACH RATE, eh? And if you have to have a relatively future-proof, well-reviewed Blu-ray player NOW that can upgrade to 1.1, then gosh, golly-gee, the PS3 counts as one of those too. And it's still at a bargain price, because be you gamer, BR movie junky, or both, the PS3 fits the bill and Sony is taking the hit for everybody. This isn't about Sony and the BDA being smug. They will lower prices as much as they need to to win this war and not a cent lower. CE profits mean a better product and long-term viability for everyone, including the consumer.

[darinp2]

Originally Posted by OokieSpookie

I think everyone outside of them agree (including other BD stand alone makers) that we need stand alones in the 250-299 range at least ( and 1.1) to shift into the next gear.

I think the key there is the Chinese companies, who should be coming out with players at some point here. In the meantime, it looks like Sony's BDP-S300 will be $399 with SM:3 and a $100 gift card on top of that (almost like $299) on bestbuy.com on Thursday, and in stores Friday and Saturday.

--Darin

[OokieSpookie]

For the record x2 I will go on record saying that i do not think that Shrek topped 63k sold.
I base that off of Rat still being number 1 for blu with oceans at the #2 slot in both formats and shrek selling 17% more than both oceans.

[AlaskaDon]

Originally Posted by richteer

Why the fixation with Sony? There are plenty of other CEs that make Blu-ray players. They could lower their prices without worrying about the PS3, 'cause they don't make it.

Nothing is preventing, say, Samsung from blowing out all their Profile 1.0 players. (As an aside, I think that all BD player manufacturers should be blowing out their 1.0 players and introducing 1.1 models...)

I also agree that a huge blow could be dealt to HD DVD with a nice price drop on the 1.0 players, but considering that BDA members want to operate as a team, I think the decision would have to be made as a group. The one that could most easily do this would be Panasonic with their 1.1 player already on the market. They could easily drop $100 off the BD-10 in order to get rid of the remaining inventory. But if they did that, Sharp is gonna say "Hey, wait a minute..." and you have discension in the ranks. It's a complicated situation which Toshiba has not been forced to deal with since they are all by their lonesome. I guess the best thing would be if all the manufacturers could agree to collectively take one for the team. But why not? The profile 1.0 players are basically going to be considered obsolete anyway.

[Porfie]

Originally Posted by OokieSpookie

For the record x2 I will go on record saying that i do not think that Shrek topped 63k sold.
I base that off of Rat still being number 1 for blu with oceans at the #2 slot in both formats and shrek selling 17% more than both oceans.

So what was the actual numbers for the Rat movie?

[blu2]

Originally Posted by AlaskaDon

I also agree that a huge blow could be dealt to HD DVD with a nice price drop on the 1.0 players, but considering that BDA members want to operate as a team, I think the decision would have to be made as a group. The one that could most easily do this would be Panasonic with their 1.1 player already on the market. They could easily drop $100 off the BD-10 in order to get rid of the remaining inventory. But if they did that, Sharp is gonna say "Hey, wait a minute..." and you have discension in the ranks.

Co-ordinating on pricing is taboo (price fixing).

[whippersnapper]

Originally Posted by cking2729

Well what do you think atomik? What will the sales ratio's look like for the next few weeks? I'm curious to see what you think. Clearly a huge spark of interest in HD-DVD has occured. Planet Earth on DuD on Amazon is #9 now, Blu Ray is #65. The average rank of their top 50 is 443 vs 749 for Blu. It's been a major turnaround this week. And of those top 50, 19 are Warner.

Edit: Of the top 109 movies, HD-DVD's make up: 1, 2, 8-27, 29, 30, 34-38, 39, 45-46, 49-53, 58-61, 64, 65, 68-70, 74, 80-83, 85, 87, 88, 91

Welcome new guy. I've reviewed your postings since last night and, to be honest, my impression is that you are a Troll who is trying to spread FUD in a subtle manner. I hope I'm wrong and that your future postings will prove me wrong. Anyway, have a great Thanksgiving and be sure to tell all your friends about all the great sales on Blu-ray products.

[mov9384ie]

in early 2008 one of these things needs to happen to end this war:

1) warner goes blu-ray exclusive
2) universal goes blu-ray exclusive
3) best buy and circuit city goes blu-ray exclusive (which in turn would motivate studios to follow suit)

if none of the 3 choices happens, dual format becomes the catchphrase of xmas 2008 (with either combo players or 2 cheap stand alones) and this war will drag on for years.



stay focused on the bigger picture. cheaper players that people are asking for won't make a significant impact on deciding the war, so doing that would just ruin the market they are trying to capture with this war in the first place. bda is trying to build a business, not win for the sake of winning.

[Joon]

Originally Posted by mov9384ie

in early 2008 one of these things needs to happen to end this war:

1) warner goes blu-ray exclusive
2) universal goes blu-ray exclusive
3) best buy and circuit city goes blu-ray exclusive (which in turn would motivate studios to follow suit)

if none of the 3 choices happens, dual format becomes the catchphrase of xmas 2008 (with either combo players or 2 cheap stand alones) and this war will drag on for years.



stay focused on the bigger picture. cheaper players that people are asking for won't make a significant impact on deciding the war, so doing that would just ruin the market they are trying to capture with this war in the first place. bda is trying to build a business, not win for the sake of winning.

Warner would be great, but look out for Universal. Speilberg looks like he is going to move from Paramount to Universal. Notice Universal is not really doing much on the HD-DVD side of things. Speilberg releases CE3K and there are 3 versions on it. Fantastic release. He wants his stuff on BD, and I think he has the power to sway Universal to go neutral or exclusive to BD. Everyone keeps talking about Warner going exclusive, it will be more painful if Universal goes neutral or completely switches. That is the one we have to keep our eye out for. Especially if they go neutral but only release a movie like Jaws or Jurassic Park on BD and BD only....

[atomik kinder]

Originally Posted by whippersnapper

Welcome new guy. I've reviewed your postings since last night and, to be honest, my impression is that you are a Troll who is trying to spread FUD in a subtle manner. I hope I'm wrong and that your future postings will prove me wrong. Anyway, have a great Thanksgiving and be sure to tell all your friends about all the great sales on Blu-ray products.

You read my mind.

[blu2]

Originally Posted by mov9384ie

in early 2008 one of these things needs to happen to end this war:

1) warner goes blu-ray exclusive
2) universal goes blu-ray exclusive
3) best buy and circuit city goes blu-ray exclusive (which in turn would motivate studios to follow suit)

if none of the 3 choices happens, dual format becomes the catchphrase of xmas 2008 (with either combo players or 2 cheap stand alones) and this war will drag on for years.

Based on your criteria, dual format here we come.

- Warner has stated their intent not to make a decision, and there's no evidence to suggest a strategy change

- Universal is stridently pro-HD DVD as far as their public persona goes, with an HD DVD exclusive title out soon that will do very very well

- Retailers are not going to drop a format that has 35-40% market share

I don't see anything that is going to shake up the status quo in the near future. I think we're stuck with the current lot of studio alignments.

If Blu Ray does want to "win" they need to play a bit harder on the hardware pricing side.

[Blu Titan]

Shrek 3 was #1 for HD dVD and Ratatouille remained #1 for blu-ray.
Shrek 3 outsold Ocean 11 HD DVD by a 3 to 1 margin. Thus, Oceans 11 HD DVD sold 25% of Shrek 3 HD DVD. Shrek 3 HD DVD outsold the total of Oceans 11 HD DVD and Blu-ray by 17% . Thus, Oceans 11 Blu-ray and HD DVD = 83% of Shrek 3 sales. We know that Oceans 11 HD DVD = 25% of Shrek 3. Consequently, 83% (combined sales Oceans 11 Blu-ray and HD DVD) - 25% (Oceans 11 HD DVD) =58% Blu-ray. Blu-ray Oceans 11 outsold the HD DVD version by more than a 2-1 ratio :-). GREAT NEWS!



http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/...270f192e3c997d

[atomik kinder]

Originally Posted by BlueNeon

Shrek 3 was #1 for HD dVD and Ratatouille remained #1 for blu-ray.
Shrek 3 outsold Ocean 11 HD DVD by a 3 to 1 margin. Thus, Oceans 11 HD DVD sold 25% of Shrek 3 HD DVD. Shrek 3 HD DVD outsold the total of Oceans 11 HD DVD and Blu-ray by 17% . Thus, Oceans 11 Blu-ray and HD DVD = 83% of Shrek 3 sales. We know that Oceans 11 HD DVD = 25% of Shrek 3. Consequently, 83% (combined sales Oceans 11 Blu-ray and HD DVD) - 25% (Oceans 11 HD DVD) =58% Blu-ray. Blu-ray Oceans 11 outsold the HD DVD version by more than a 2-1 ratio :-). GREAT NEWS!



http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/...270f192e3c997d

I always hated math, so what do you figure Ratatouille sold? I guess we will find out Friday.

[cking2729]

Originally Posted by whippersnapper

Welcome new guy. I've reviewed your postings since last night and, to be honest, my impression is that you are a Troll who is trying to spread FUD in a subtle manner. I hope I'm wrong and that your future postings will prove me wrong. Anyway, have a great Thanksgiving and be sure to tell all your friends about all the great sales on Blu-ray products.

Originally Posted by atomik kinder

You read my mind.

Nope, not a Troll. Perhaps you can 'review' my posts from throughout today and hopefully you'll see I have more of an intention of getting information and contributing my opinion and observations. I've only been in the Blu-Ray market since July, so I am not completely familiar with the sales trends as you guys are. And I wasn't trying to spread FUD, I was seriously asking for atomik or anybody elses opinion on this week's odd Amazon trends. Haven't gotten an answer yet, though, just been accused of stuff since I have shown some "uncertainty." I understand your caution, though.

[Anthony P]

Shrek 3 outsold Ocean 11 HD DVD by a 3 to 1 margin. Thus, Oceans 11 HD DVD sold 25% of Shrek 3 HD DVD

3:1 should be 33% on the otyher hand I ma sure that it would also not be that precise. But if it was 25% then they would have said 4:1

[cking2729]

Originally Posted by BlueNeon

Shrek 3 was #1 for HD dVD and Ratatouille remained #1 for blu-ray.
Shrek 3 outsold Ocean 11 HD DVD by a 3 to 1 margin. Thus, Oceans 11 HD DVD sold 25% of Shrek 3 HD DVD. Shrek 3 HD DVD outsold the total of Oceans 11 HD DVD and Blu-ray by 17% . Thus, Oceans 11 Blu-ray and HD DVD = 83% of Shrek 3 sales. We know that Oceans 11 HD DVD = 25% of Shrek 3. Consequently, 83% (combined sales Oceans 11 Blu-ray and HD DVD) - 25% (Oceans 11 HD DVD) =58% Blu-ray. Blu-ray Oceans 11 outsold the HD DVD version by more than a 2-1 ratio :-). GREAT NEWS!



http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/...270f192e3c997d

Thanks for doing the dirty work, neon. I admit skipping out on the math, but the "Blu-Ray outsold" was the part I was truly interested in!

[Blu Titan]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

3:1 should be 33% on the otyher hand I ma sure that it would also not be that precise. But if it was 25% then they would have said 4:1

Anthony 3:1 means that for every three copies Shrek 3 HD DVD sold 1 copy of Oceans 11 was sold. The same as saying that the YTD sales ratio for Blu-ray over HD DVD is 66% or 2-1.