The Simpsons Seasons on Blu-ray

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by simpspin

Now, if you were to make a graph, it'd look like this:



As the graph makes abundantly clear, The Simpsons and The Simpsons 2.0 are two different television shows. There was a very high quality one in the 90s, and now there’s a middling to bad one that just won’t stop.

Oh my. Did you really just post a graph? Wow. You're some kind of uber nerd we haven't invented a word for yet.

[Ugly Pig]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

The stupid father character archetype has existed for a long freaking time, bro. The Simpons themselves joke that they ripped off The Honeymooners or The Flintstones. Family Guy too has made references to The Honeymooners and The Flintstones.

Hah! I just knew someone was gonna say that. But no - Peter Griffin is not just another instance of the "fat stupid husband with the good looking wife" seen in so many sitcoms over the years, he is specifically Homer Simpson. It's feels as if when writing for the character, the writers think to themselves "What would Homer say?" before they write every line. Maybe it's hard for Family Guy fans to realize this after having watched the show for so long and getting used to it, but really it's pretty blatant.

That's just the most obvious thing they got from The Simpsons, though. Again; this may be difficult to see now when these shows both have been around for so long, but at one time The Simpsons was truly unique. It did things no other TV shows did. The plot structure, the rapid-fire pacing, certain types of jokes you wouldn't see elsewhere, throwaway gags and tangents that had little to do with the plot but were hella funny.. There was nothing on TV like it, anywhere. Until Family Guy came along and copied all those things, but made it "more extreme!!".

I'll give you the talking dog and baby, but aside from that - most of the aspects you know and love about Family Guy were stolen directly from The Simpsons and then exaggerated. I'm not saying you should stop watching or anything silly like that. But this is just why I can't watch Family Guy, funny though it may be, without wanting to punch it in its face (Well, there are other reasons too but I won't go into that).

Originally Posted by simpspin

As the graph makes abundantly clear, The Simpsons and The Simpsons 2.0 are two different television shows. There was a very high quality one in the 90s, and now there’s a middling to bad one that just won’t stop.

Actually the only thing it makes abundantly clear is that disgruntled fans with an axe to grind like voting on IMDB.

It's true that the show is no longer "what it once was", but you know what? The show was never "what it once was". It was always evolving, since day one. If you dig up old fan reviews from way back in season 3 or so, you'll find the same complaints that "The Simpsons has gone downhill" - and this from the period which is considered the absolute golden age today. If you think the show peaked later - say, season 6 or 8 or whenever - I'll guarantee people were saying the same thing at those times as well.

[simpspin]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

Yeah, season 1 is totally real. It's like they looked into my life and made a show about it. I remember the time I faked being a genius, fooled everyone, went to a new school for geniuses, failed at it, then again successfully lied to be allowed to go back to my old school with absolutely no negative consequences. And the time my family and I all electroshocked each other. And then one time my grandpa helped me literally wage war on a bully. And one time, my kid sister befriended an aging jazz muscician. And oh man, one time, my family went on vacation, but my dad drove the RV off the side of a cliff!

Whoa...slow your roll! First, these plotlines are far more realistic compared to the plotlines over the past 12 seasons. Second, half of the "real" equation is the characters themselves were written with empathy. While I won't argue these plots aren't 100 percent realism, they're far more real than Marge meeting Mel Gibson and the having Homer make a movie with him.

But I'll never forget MY DAD JUMPING OVER THE GRAND CANYON ON MY SKATEBOARD.

...no he didn't, he fell and hit the sides on the way down and wound up critically injured and in the hospital. If this scene was made in 2010, Homer would've made it across and Justin Beber would've written him a song.

Who is saying that? It's just a different show now, that's all. Do you really think a sitcom could last for 20 years and not change at all? Maybe if they allowed the children to grow up they could tell new stories about growing up, but no. It's a cartoon and they don't want them to age.

For the first 8 seasons, the executive producers changed every other season and that kept the show fresh. Then Scully took over in season 9 and besides the fact he was terrible, he was the first EP to stick around for more than two years. The last two seasons of his tenure were unwatchable (and season 10 was terrible, too). Then Al Jean took over, but at least seasons 13-15 were kind of better, but after S16, his episodes became increasingly blander and blander to the mess we have today. But my point is, if the show would've changed EPs every two seasons, the show might not have become as burnt out as quickly.

Personally, I still view the Simpsons as a TV show and not an institution/tradition I simply will say is good "because it's the Simpsons!".

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

Oh my. Did you really just post a graph? Wow. You're some kind of uber nerd we haven't invented a word for yet.

No, but when I replied to the last post, I remembered it.

Originally Posted by Ugly Pig

Actually the only thing it makes abundantly clear is that disgruntled fans with an axe to grind like voting on IMDB.

Or maybe the Simpsons ain't hot shit anymore? Episodes that are ranked poorly didn't just 'happen' to suck.

It's true that the show is no longer "what it once was", but you know what? The show was never "what it once was". It was always evolving, since day one. If you dig up old fan reviews from way back in season 3 or so, you'll find the same complaints that "The Simpsons has gone downhill" - and this from the period which is considered the absolute golden age today. If you think the show peaked later - say, season 6 or 8 or whenever - I'll guarantee people were saying the same thing at those times as well.

Heh, I knew someone was going to bring up the Snpp.com reviews. Well, let me break this down for you...

The early, and often very harsh, criticisms of the show you can still see on SNPP come from this extremely narrow slice of the population. Remember that Season 8, which as far as I’m concerned is that last of the truly perfect seasons, ended in the spring of 1997. The great seasons of The Simpsons almost completely predate what we think of as the internet.

It’s both lazy and distorting to ignore that fact and you're holding me personally responsible for other people's opinions I don't agree with. This is from that Morgan Spurlock interview before the [s]10[/s] 20th Ann. Special:

"And don’t bother trying to convince Spurlock that “The Simpsons” has slipped much from its earlier glory-days hysterical heights – a criticism that those involved with the series have been hearing since approximately season III."

Were there on-line criticisms of the show during Season 3 (1991-1992)? Of course there were! Go to any capsule for Season 3 on SNPP and you’ll find at least a couple of negative reviews for even the most beloved of episodes. Their opinions have outsized prominence because they were amongst the first people to discuss popular culture on-line, but the population that generated those reviews is extremely non-representative of Simpsons fans. It’s highly skewed towards the techiest of the early 1990s nerds who were, to put it mildly, an abnormal set of people. (I knew some of these types in the 10th grade...Yikes!)

That there was at least some on-line criticism of the show from almost the beginning, and that said criticism is ridiculously harsh, should NOT obscure the fact that in this day and age, indeed since the turn of the century at least, there has been a solid and growing contingent of Simpsons fans who feel the show has badly lost itself. But the only thing the fans, both those who carp online and those who don’t, ever did wrong was to keep watching and buying long after the show itself turned to shit. To think the writers, producers, and hangers on became gun shy because anonymous nerds wrote mean things on the internet defies all reason.

I hear this on the Season 12 commentaries all the time, “Oh, people on the internet *****ed about this”. First of all, so what? Second, that doesn’t mean they weren’t justified in their *****ing. And third, internet snark is not a reason to suck at your job.

[Nielsb90]

Is ok that people dont like the show but why try and convince others that it is actually a bad show? Its all a matter of opinion!

Some people find The Big Bang Theory great and I think its terrible.. But that doesnt mean I try and convice others to dislike it?

Oh, and BTW I am sper excited about picking this up tuesday!

[simpspin]

Originally Posted by Nielsb90

Is ok that people dont like the show but why try and convince others that it is actually a bad show? Its all a matter of opinion!

That's not the point. It's when people say the show is as good as it once was, but just 'different', or when people dismiss my opinions for misguided nostalgia, uber nerdism, or go all "true fan!" and proclaim: "there's not bad Simpsons, just bad fans", it's one of the few things I'll actually take the time to refute.

Saying the show today is as good, or anywhere near as good as the first 8 seasons is like throwing mud on the past quality of show.

[Nielsb90]

Originally Posted by simpspin

That's not the point. It's when people say the show is as good as it once was, but just 'different', or when people dismiss my opinions for misguided nostalgia, uber nerdism, or go all "true fan!" and proclaim: "there's not bad Simpsons, just bad fans", it's one of the few things I'll actually take the time to refute.

Saying the show today is as good, or anywhere near as good as the first 8 seasons is like throwing mud on the past quality of show.

Ok I see your point, and I have to kinda agree.. However I think I will be buying every season whenever its released..

[mayorofsmpleton]

...no he didn't, he fell and hit the sides on the way down and wound up critically injured and in the hospital. If this scene was made in 2010, Homer would've made it across and Justin Beber would've written him a song.

In my opinion the show has severely drifted AWAY from this type of episode in the recent episodes (at least the last few seasons).

They've gone back to having guest stars playing "characters" and not themselves.

They've also gone back to taking many more political/social stabs at many topics.

You posted a graph from IMDB? Seriously? All that shows is that many people online jumped on a bandwagon of the meme "The Simpsons has sucked for so long..."

I know because I was part of the crowd who felt that way too. Realistically though I hadn't seen many of the episodes since season 12. After going through and watching them all I find that it's a show that went through a low period and has been "reborn" as something different. If I was like a lot of other "internet" voters I'd have voted all those later episodes low too -- and like many of the people who voted -- I doubt I'd have seen them before voting.

The graph shows nothing except that there's a "general opinion" that the show went downhill and nobody has to have SEEN those episodes to actually vote on them... it's irrelevant and proves nothing.

I do agree that saying the show is "Back like it was in seasons 6-8!" and similar comments aren't really warranted. It's not BACK to anything... it's evolved into something different. It's almost a parody of the show it once was... which doesn't mean it's necessarily bad... it's just a DIFFERENT show... one that I've found myself enjoying again after many years of assuming it had just drifted into mediocrity -- like many of the fans who stopped watching but continue to comment on how "terrible" the show has become -- despite not having seen many of the so-called "terrible" new episodes.

[simpspin]

Originally Posted by mayorofsmpleton

In my opinion the show has severely drifted AWAY from this type of episode in the recent episodes (at least the last few seasons).

They've gone back to having guest stars playing "characters" and not themselves.

The jury's out on if they'll continue this, otherwise, it could be just a fluke for a few seasons. Or maybe they realized throwing celebs onto the screen hasn't helped the falling ratings over the past few years.

They've also gone back to taking many more political/social stabs at many topics.

...and failed. Some of this so called 'satire' in the past few seasons has been a bunch of bad punditry with run-on jokes. IMO, the last decent satire the Simpsons pulled off was in S14 when Homer was commenting on airplanes flying "Back over the homes of poor people."

You posted a graph from IMDB? Seriously? All that shows is that many people online jumped on a bandwagon of the meme "The Simpsons has sucked for so long..."

That's a pretty bold claim, like you can actually vouch for everyone who cast a vote! However, where you get your feet wet is the only posters who posted obvious voting to tip the scales were the people who voted "10s" for next season's "Elementary School Musical" (South Park Already did It!), and that's really lame. But if you want true bandwagoning, saying the show's getting better has been the en vogue thing to do. There's always an excuse:

1. "Al Jean's taking over from Scully to make the show better!"
--Sort of agree with this, but he didn't leave and the show is staler than week-old pizza.

2. "The work on the Simpsons Movie will inspire the writers!"
--Uh, if you guys say so...

3. "The writers aren't as distracted making the movie, so they have time to make the show better!
--Wait, you people just said...!?

4. "The show's funnier/awesomer now that it's in HD!!!!
--How does being in "HD" and looking like a flash video (with stiff, lifeless animation) make it better?

In one form or another people have been expressing these exact argument for years. The problem is that it never seems to last. The show has a well established golden age in its first eight seasons or so, but there is no second or third peak era that lots of people will point to as being great. In this argument the show has always gotten better “recently”, or “in the last few seasons”, or some other nebulous time frame. It’s a cop out used by people who want to find something – anything – positive to say so they don’t sound like cranky old farts.

I know because I was part of the crowd who felt that way too. Realistically though I hadn't seen many of the episodes since season 12. After going through and watching them all I find that it's a show that went through a low period and has been "reborn" as something different. If I was like a lot of other "internet" voters I'd have voted all those later episodes low too -- and like many of the people who voted -- I doubt I'd have seen them before voting.

I'm not debating that you know what you want, I'm just letting the numbers speak for themselves and I doubt there's THAT many people who voted "low" because they had nothing better to do. I'm guessing it's not many more than the people who gave a perfect score to an episode that hasn't even aired yet. (And I've seen every episode since the Ullman show, in order, but I've never voted on the IMDB.)

The graph shows nothing except that there's a "general opinion" that the show went downhill and nobody has to have SEEN those episodes to actually vote on them... it's irrelevant and proves nothing.

Again, did you go in and do a background check on EVERY voter? Really, if the show was 'getting better', I'm sure there would've been some people happy to tip the scales back to even out the chart just because they could've...and they did.

I do agree that saying the show is "Back like it was in seasons 6-8!" and similar comments aren't really warranted. It's not BACK to anything... it's evolved into something different. It's almost a parody of the show it once was... which doesn't mean it's necessarily bad...

I think it is. People have been saying the show's been "getting better" since Season 11. Every year, someone is always saying this season will be better because they don't want the next season to look like the past season. It's also funny that Entertainment Weekly did a Top 50 best Simpsons episode poll when the show was celebrating the 300th episode and all but one were from the first 9 seasons. So, when the show was 'getting better" and was "reborn as something different", people still didn't care.

...it's just a DIFFERENT show...

That's the understatement of the year!

...one that I've found myself enjoying again after many years of assuming it had just drifted into mediocrity -- like many of the fans who stopped watching but continue to comment on how "terrible" the show has become -- despite not having seen many of the so-called "terrible" new episodes.

Again, how do you know what other people do, or don't do?

While I have no sympathy whatsoever for this argument I do have some sympathy for the impulse behind the "it's getting better!" excuse. So many fans are so desperate to like the show again that they can’t bring themselves to snuff out that last trembling ember of hope. I get that. I understand that, but the real Simpsons is dead, it died a long time ago and it’s not coming back. And pretending that it might won’t make it.

Why do people blow the Simpsons way out of perportion? It's a funny cartoon. Just leave it at that.

Being a cartoon and being well-written aren't two mutually exclusive concepts. Saying "it's a cartoon" means saying little at all.

Originally Posted by Imrahil2001

Yup. These other guys are BORING. Quit BORING EVERYONE.

What happened to C'est la vie?

[McCrutchy]

Hi everyone,

I respect that there are some strong disagreements on the quality of The Simpsons series over the years, however, this thread is not really intended for that discussion. This thread, in the Blu-ray Movies section, is meant to be generally limited to the Blu-ray release of The Simpsons thirteenth season. Blu-ray.com has a large Television forum where The Simpsons as a show can be discussed. I would appreciate that, if you wish to post something on The Simpsons that is irrelevant to the Blu-ray release, that you post it there.

McCrutchy

[simpspin]

Originally Posted by McCrutchy

Hi everyone,

I respect that there are some strong disagreements on the quality of The Simpsons series over the years, however, this thread is not really intended for that discussion. This thread, in the Blu-ray Movies section, is meant to be generally limited to the Blu-ray release of The Simpsons thirteenth season. Blu-ray.com has a large Television forum where The Simpsons as a show can be discussed. I would appreciate that, if you wish to post something on The Simpsons that is irrelevant to the Blu-ray release, that you post it there.

McCrutchy

Sounds fair enough. If anyone wants to continue debating if the show's gotten better/worse, the new thread is here.

[mayorofsmpleton]

Originally Posted by simpspin

The jury's out on if they'll continue this, otherwise, it could be just a fluke for a few seasons. Or maybe they realized throwing celebs onto the screen hasn't helped the falling ratings over the past few years.

True, but to play devil's advocate -- all scripted content typically sheds viewers as it goes on. The Simpsons are still typically one of the highest rated shows on the air in the coveted 18-49 demographic. It's actually stabilized in the last several years.

That's a pretty bold claim, like you can actually vouch for everyone who cast a vote!

I can't possibly. I can, however, vouch for the fact that an IMDB.com poll is in no way accurate from a scientific standpoint.

It's been "in vogue" to call the show crappy for at least the last 10 years (as I said -- I was doing it myself... and I probably should have been watching the show I was saying "Has gone so downhill!")

As you said yourself... people already voted on episodes that have YET to air. Meaning that to vote on the quality of the show one does not have to have even viewed it.

To put it simply...here's what is more than likely the case... "I hate that the Simpsons isn't as good as it used to be. I have endless free time and no life so I'm going to vote on IMDB that every episode since season 10, 11, 12, etc. has SUCKED -- despite not having actually even seen it." etc.

General opinion is that the show has gone downhill from it's high point. Nobody argues that. I'm saying that many of the people who continue to trash talk it likely have stopped watching several seasons back and haven't seen many of the later seasons offerings.

You claim to and are more than welcome to have an opinion on the quality -- but a poll on IMDB does little to convince me that any of the people who voted have even seen the episodes -- and even if they had, I'd rarely trust IMDB to tell me someone is "good" based on the votes of the users. Have you read the message boards there? It's like entering the gates of Hell.

Some "tipped the scales" by voting on episodes YET to air... and those are in FAVOR of the show. We all know people like to criticize more than they like to praise... Which is why people are more likely to talk about a "bad" experience shopping etc... than a good one.

but there is no second or third peak era that lots of people will point to as being great. In this argument the show has always gotten better “recently”, or “in the last few seasons”, or some other nebulous time frame.

That's the point... there's isn't some magical "time" that the show improved... just like IMO there isn't a time when it stopped being so great... There are more than a few clunkers in those first 8 seasons -- and I find some from seasons 1-3 downright unwatchable -- just as I found many from the last few seasons to be.

I don't need the Simpsons to keep me from sounding cranky -- besides -- I tend to embrace that side of myself.

I doubt there's THAT many people who voted "low" because they had nothing better to do.

You underestimate the average internet user's ability to waste time when there's "nothing better to do." Some people sit and refresh pages to vote over and over again on "Save My Canceled Show!" sites, etc. The internet is filled with people who have nothing but free time and very often nothing better to do than to vote on useless polls.

I'm guessing it's not many more than the people who gave a perfect score to an episode that hasn't even aired yet.

Right, GUESSING. Which as I said means very little. The only way to truly get a great idea of the "quality" to ask opinions of people who still watch -- many of the people who trash the show have stopped watching it years ago. Either way -- it's hard to get a general idea of quality from mass opinion anyway. Crash (2006) won best picture and I can name several people who thought it was an overrated bit of nonsense. It doesn't mean it's true... it's a matter of opinion.

So basically we have nothing left to argue.

The show is a different show. It's "golden age" is representative of the "best" it's been able to produce. None of the new episodes airing can touch those classic episodes -- but in actuality it's hardly the "wasteland" of animation it's been made out to be. The show is easily as good as anything Seth MacFarlane churns out -- which is all I argue. Will it ever get back to the point it once was? Probably not... as it's evolved into something very different.

Again, did you go in and do a background check on EVERY voter? Really, if the show was 'getting better', I'm sure there would've been some people happy to tip the scales back to even out the chart just because they could've...and they did.

You realize this makes no sense right?

You basically say -- "If the show was getting better -- people would be happy to tip the scales in favor -- and they did."

Entertainment Weekly did a Top 50 best Simpsons episode poll when the show was celebrating the 300th episode and all but one were from the first 9 seasons.

Another unscientific poll... the show was at it's highest ratings in those 9 seasons and it's likely the people voting have A) Not seen every one of those 300 episodes and B) Are likely to vote on ones they remember fondly, etc... not ones they necessarily thought were "well written." They're also unlikely to have seen every episode during those first 9 seasons -- but as those were the highpoints from a ratings standpoint more of those episodes were "seen" and thus could be remembered by the voters.

Again, how do you know what other people do, or don't do?

I don't, which is why I don't take unscientific web-polls to be factual when there is little true data to back it up.

"user" reviews are rarely indicative of "quality."

I do have some sympathy for the impulse behind the "it's getting better!" excuse.

Not really an excuse. I don't need to justify to people what I watch.

I get that some fans are claiming "it's back!"

My argument isn't far from yours.

So many fans are so desperate to like the show again that they can’t bring themselves to snuff out that last trembling ember of hope. I get that. I understand that, but the real Simpsons is dead, it died a long time ago and it’s not coming back. And pretending that it might won’t make it.

I think this is where you're confusing the argument. I know the show as it was is "dead." It died a long time ago. The show we have now is not as good as the original show -- but it's hardly the drivel it's painted to be. Do I ever expect the original quality to return? No. It was a time and a place that's over and done.

I get what you're saying in that there are rabid fans intent on convincing people that the show is better than it ever was. IMO -- Seasons 17+ are better than the seasons 12-16 -- but the show as it is can't touch the "golden age."

I do, however, think it's recovered from a bad spell and has morphed into something worth watching again -- something like a parody of the original show. For me it works... but it's most definitely NOT the same show from seasons 1-8 -- heck... Season 4-8 aren't the same as seasons 1-3...

I'd rate the show at it's prime as four star material. The seasons I consider it slumped probably in the two star range.

I think since around season 17 or so I'd rank it somewhere in the three star range... but what do I know -- I'm just one person on a message board and as I said, quality is often a matter of opinion.

[jw]

hey guys, this is way off topic as it has nothing to do with Season 13

[PowellPressburger]

Originally Posted by simpspin

Sounds fair enough. If anyone wants to continue debating if the show's gotten better/worse, the new thread is here.

I agree for those wanting the above discussion please go to this link and fight to the death :-)

[Oateyboat]

I think for now I'll stick with DVD until we get the the seasons which were originally broadcast in HD, just to keep in line with previous seasons. Mind if they did the blu-ray edition in DVD packaging I'd probably be swayed towards that. With the new packaging on The Simpsons seasons, Blu-Ray's resistance to scratching could hold up useful

[rexcrk]

I'm definitely picking up the Blu-ray after work tomorrow! I can't wait.

I didn't start watching the Simpsons until season 11 or 12 was airing (I was in 5th grade at the time, that's when I was "allowed" to watch it ) but my first actual episode was from season 8. Anyway, I think that was that "awkward" period between "good episodes" and "bad episodes" so I don't have that nostalgia thing going and I like all the episodes lol.

Can't wait till tomorrow!

Actually, I'm surprised there isn't a review up yet! I wanted to make sure they didn't screw up the Blu-ray somehow before buying it lol

[AutomaticDriver]

For the people who only want to get the 13th season on dvd. If you buy it at Best buy you can have them to PM their website for $31.99. I noticed that every place is charging 3 bucks more for the LE package. But Best Buy website has the RE and LE for the same price on DVD.

BTW. Im getting it on Blu.

[simpspin]

Originally Posted by mayorofsmpleton

True, but to play devil's advocate...

The reply to you post is here, along with the quality debate.

[cinema sickness]

FOR YOU SIMPSON DVD BUYERS
Just picked up my copy (again, on DVD) for only $19.99 at B.J.s after their $15.00 off coupon. They only had the "Limited Edition" copy at my store. So for those who want that there ya go, and for those who want the standard box... keep in mind that the "Limited Edition" box is just the standard packaging with a face rubber cemented on the front. It peals right off with no damage what-so-ever.

[Wdm81]

I'm getting the bluray for sure, What would be the point of settling for the DVD? I do own all the previous seasons on DVD, but I like to look forward not backwards

From now on, i'll be getitng the bluray (hell by the time season 21 comes out, it might only come out on blu). Season 13 was pretty funny and contained alot of good episodes

My only question is do I rush to get this tonight after work and then not eat for a few days or should I wait till I get paid on friday?

[McCrutchy]

Originally Posted by Wdm81

I'm getting the bluray for sure, What would be the point of settling for the DVD? I do own all the previous seasons on DVD, but I like to look forward not backwards

From now on, i'll be getitng the bluray (hell by the time season 21 comes out, it might only come out on blu). Season 13 was pretty funny and contained alot of good episodes

My only question is do I rush to get this tonight after work and then not eat for a few days or should I wait till I get paid on friday?

If it's only until Friday, shouldn't you wait? The Blu-ray isn't available in a Limited Edition...