ABC's "Lost" Discussion (2004-2010)

[LOSTnLOST]

Originally Posted by Zvi

I seriously doubt that. I had few month break after watching S1-S5 till S6, and S6 was as stupid as it gets. I

wait so you watched S1-S5 without stopping then you watched S6 week to week.

btw ive seen it time and time again not just this 1 friend i mentioned.

I had a friend a few years back who watched S1 without stopping, loved it then preceeded to hate S2 because "nothing was happening" week to week.

I just like to add S6 is my favourite season and the finale is my favourite episode.

[Moviefan1203]

Originally Posted by Zvi

Not answering so many questions, and giving ultra lame, or utterly dumb explanations was not gonna be helped by reduced delays.

That's your opinion. I found Lost's final season to be spectacular and a very fitting and worthy ending. The final episode was hugely powerful.

[iam1bearcat]

Originally Posted by Moviefan1203

That's your opinion. I found Lost's final season to be spectacular and a very fitting and worthy ending. The final episode was hugely powerful.

+1

each season to me was easily 5/5, including the finale.

[Zvi]

Originally Posted by Moviefan1203

That's your opinion. I found Lost's final season to be spectacular and a very fitting and worthy ending. The final episode was hugely powerful.

That it is Although, my point was even if I watched S6 back to back instead of week to week it wouldn't change a squat. Unexplained would still remain unexplained and things that didn't make any sense wouldn't become meaningful either.

Killing off a main character at the end was gonna be emotional for those who got to like the show, but even that didn't make much sense.

[BergerForLife]

Hey Zvi welcome back to the Lost thread where you insult Lost.

Originally Posted by Zvi

Killing off a main character at the end was gonna be emotional for those who got to like the show, but even that didn't make much sense.

Made perfect sense to me

[Zvi]

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

Hey Zvi welcome back to the Lost thread where you insult Lost.

Thanks Although, let's not generalize, from my point of view, S6(or writers) insulted S1-S5 and lots of fans.

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

Made perfect sense to me

The part where Jack gets stabbed in the liver with 9" blade and expires as a consequence, made perfect sense to me too, arguably he wouldn't be in fighting mood after that, but ok, let's say the moody island's flaky healing powers. That's not exactly what I was referring to.

Although, why a scratch on the neck from the same blade continued to bleed for days in "purgatory" and mucho bigger and deeper wound left just a scar still makes zero sense to me. I'm sure you can explain... That's a minor detail of course, but for other stuff I suspect you have that "it was never about mysteries, it was all about characters" kindda answer, and I can't make much out of that. And what kind of "character" wouldn't be asking any questions in their position, just doing something they were not even clearly explained to do anyway... That's some development right there.

[BergerForLife]

Originally Posted by Zvi

Although, why a scratch on the neck from the same blade continued to bleed for days in "purgatory" and mucho bigger and deeper wound left just a scar still makes zero sense to me. I'm sure you can explain... That's a minor detail of course, but for other stuff I suspect you have that "it was never about mysteries, it was all about characters" kindda answer, and I can't make much out of that. And what kind of "character" wouldn't be asking any questions in their position, just doing something they were not even clearly explained to do anyway... That's some development right there.

It seems a lot of the characters did what they did because they had faith. A lot of characters did ask questions though that you may not remember. John Locke used to ask them all the time. Sawyer was always saying "Who the hells Jacob?" etc. The point was the characters did what they did because they believed it was the right thing to do. They ended up sticking by each others side no matter what. As for Jacks wounds, remember where he was. It was a place the characters created to find each other, remember, and let go. The bleeding he was having on his neck and side (remember he did also bleed on his side and he called his mom to ask when he got appendix taken out) was so that he could remember what happened to him on the island.

I actually don't like to say "It wasn't about the mysteries, it was about the characters" thing. A big part of the show was the mysteries for sure. However, I don't think we (the fans) were ripped off by the show, nor do I feel like we were led on to answers that we didn't get.

I guess its perfectly fair for you to say that you felt you wasted your time, if you actually have specific questions that you were watching the show to find answers for and you did not receive them. I got everything I wanted from the show though. The story, the characters, and the answers I wanted. The rest is up to interpretation which is the point of "Lost". Science vs. Religion etc. If you want to say the island was a place where scientific miracles happen, you can say that. Or you can say it was a place created by a deity. The things that we don't have concrete answers for in real life, we also don't have concrete answers for in the show. That's the point.

For example "What is the island and when/how was is created?" is comparable to "What is earth and when/how was it created?"

[thePhoenix]

I finished re-watching all 6 seasons a few weeks ago and I'm already thinking of starting it over again. I haven't really checked out any of the bonus stuff or commentaries so that's a good reason to start it over.

[TooBlu]

LOST is still and all ways will be the best show of all time

[Zvi]

Berger, for one reason or another, Lost fans, those who liked the ending and S6 take it very personally when S6 gets criticized. I did see that in this thread few times. I'm not saying you're doing it in this conversation, but in the past it happened quite a bit. I really don't want to turn this into yet another religious beliefs type thing.

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

It seems a lot of the characters did what they did because they had faith.

Yeah, except I'm not very clear what was that faith, in what? Locke believed he was brought to the island for a purpose and that apparently turned out to be what? Being hang way off the island. And most of the time he was used by someone, one way or the other. So much for faith...
The rest had no clue whatsoever to the last episode of S6.

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

They ended up sticking by each others side no matter what.

I think you forgot Jack did try to kill Locke, Sawyer was quite far from sticking up with anyone, in S6 as well and so on. And in S6 sides were exchanged few times.

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

The bleeding he was having on his neck and side ...
was so that he could remember what happened to him on the island.

And why that self( or whatever) induced amnesia when going to the place they wanna go so much to meet people etc... Is that what a normal person would to to himself, forget everything about someone you want to meet so much? Or we should assume when entering self made purgatory that is the side effect or assume it's mandatory, and then interesting question is why?

Was there something spiritual about their pointless ramblings in the purgatory that added to the show or character development or what was it supposed to mean anyway? Sawyer secretly wanted to be a cop all his conman life? And Sayid secretly wanted Nadya to be his brother's wife or what was wrong with all them...

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

The things that we don't have concrete answers for in real life, we also don't have concrete answers for in the show. That's the point.

Agreed, but that doesn't mean sci-fi or fantasy based plots, at least as long as humans are involved can/should loose all common sense and logic. If you were to guard the damn island, which we never understood, whom to guard from, or why it was so important to guard, and you got to set the rules, and having the dude bent on killing you and escaping form the island, wouldn't your #1 rule be you can't kill me? Followed by you can't escape, period. Instead what did we get? MIB had to go through "you have no idea what" to stand in "there" and have Ben kill Jacob... How stupid that looks after S6. In S5 that didn't look so dumb, granted we were lead to assume both Jacob and MIB obeyed rules and they weren't set by them. Then in S6 we learned Jacob gets to do make the rules. What an idiot in that case... Not just because he got himself killed, but apparently he endangered the whole world by being so stupid, because until the last moment it was absolutely unclear MIB wouldn't get what he wanted.

Basically, for me S6 ruined a lot of or most of the S1-S5. So many things turn out to be pointless, meaningless, abandoned, whatever...

Originally Posted by BergerForLife

For example "What is the island and when/how was is created?" is comparable to "What is earth and when/how was it created?"

The earth is a planet, and was created about 4.5bln years ago, based on quite solid scientific proof. I didn't expect the same about the island, but I didn't expect 0 amount information about that either.

[LOSTnLOST]

Originally Posted by Zvi

Basically, for me S6 ruined a lot of or most of the S1-S5. So many things turn out to be pointless, meaningless, abandoned, whatever...

Yeah there are a few things, but the only thing that truly bothers me on re watch it Walt. There was definitely a bigger plan that they dropped. It would be OK if it was only a small thing but they made a big deal out of it in S1 and S2.

So what are these other things your talking about?

[X12Celtics3]

Originally Posted by LOSTnLOST

Yeah there are a few things, but the only thing that truly bothers me on re watch it Walt. There was definitely a bigger plan that they dropped. It would be OK if it was only a small thing but they made a big deal out of it in S1 and S2.

So what are these other things your talking about?

Well, I'm not the person that you responded to, and I still feel that seasons 1-5 were very good (especially 1, 4, and 5; 2 and 3 were okay, which is a hell of a lot better than season 6), but I can kind of see how somebody who absolutely hated the final season would have the show kind of ruined. It was basically a fantastic show for five full years, and then the sixth season just kind of threw it all away for some weird, disjointed season full of uncharacteristically large problems, including a crowd-pleasing ending that seemed to be designed that everybody who watched it would completely understand it, be it Lost diehards or the American Idol crowd who tuned in simply because it was the popular thing to do so with all of the advertising it received.

The whole sixth season seemed to not know where it was going, it just felt rushed and not well thought out enough. I don't think it ruined the first five seasons, but it does make me want to rewatch it for awhile, knowing that the series falters so much at the end for my personal tastes. Other people liked it, which is great, I'm glad... but I'm not one of them.

[LOSTnLOST]

Originally Posted by X12Celtics3

Well, I'm not the person that you responded to, and I still feel that seasons 1-5 were very good (especially 1, 4, and 5; 2 and 3 were okay, which is a hell of a lot better than season 6), but I can kind of see how somebody who absolutely hated the final season would have the show kind of ruined. It was basically a fantastic show for five full years, and then the sixth season just kind of threw it all away for some weird, disjointed season full of uncharacteristically large problems, including a crowd-pleasing ending that seemed to be designed that everybody who watched it would completely understand it, be it Lost diehards or the American Idol crowd who tuned in simply because it was the popular thing to do so with all of the advertising it received.

The whole sixth season seemed to not know where it was going, it just felt rushed and not well thought out enough. I don't think it ruined the first five seasons, but it does make me want to rewatch it for awhile, knowing that the series falters so much at the end for my personal tastes. Other people liked it, which is great, I'm glad... but I'm not one of them.

an ending that everyone would understand?

Are you serious!? There are so many people out there that complain because "the ending dont make no sense".

You're not really giving me any good reasons. The season didnt know where it was going? What does that even mean. Season 6 felt rushed? LOL. I tell you what was rushed. Season 4, but you have no problem loving that. Season 4 was supposed to be 16 episode but was condensed into 14 because of the writers strike.

[Zvi]

Originally Posted by LOSTnLOST

So what are these other things your talking about?

Are you kidding?
Clair's babe, there was dedicated ep in S1 and few references later, not supposed to be raised by another. And the she just abandons him, nothing really happens. Later she blames everyone for abandoning her, and somehow nobody remembers or reminds her that it was her who abandoned her child in the middle of the night.
Ben and Widmore... Neither was a protector, why the rules or what are the rules. How Ben got Widmore kicked out.
Nothing about the Island itself.
Statue which appeared to be significant somehow, but in the end, just got hit by the ship...
Libby and her mental thingy in the original timeline.
How or why Eloize knows everything.
The temple, which turned out to be big nothing.
Who exactly ordered the purge? Alpert? Jacob? Both? Or they went along with Ben?
Pregnant women issue.
Numbers.
Smokey can go under the temple but not inside? Or what's the topography of his allowed movements.
Smokey can't leave the island, but appears to Jack in LA and to Michael on the freighter just fine. Looks like those rules were changed as they (writers) run out of ideas.

And I can go on for about a hundred or more. I'd have to watch the whole show from the beginning though.

[ts0323]

My responses are in red.

Originally Posted by Zvi

Are you kidding?
Clair's babe, there was dedicated ep in S1 and few references later, not supposed to be raised by another. And the she just abandons him, nothing really happens. Later she blames everyone for abandoning her, and somehow nobody remembers or reminds her that it was her who abandoned her child in the middle of the night.
IMO she abandoned him because MIB/Christian drugged her or tricked her into coming with him.
Ben and Widmore... Neither was a protector, why the rules or what are the rules. How Ben got Widmore kicked out.
I thought it was clear that Ben and Widmore's rules had been implemented by Jacob.
Ben got Widmore kicked out because he regularly left the Island and had Penny with an outsider.
Nothing about the Island itself.
Why does every single question have to be answered? There are plenty of great movies like 2001, Memento, etc., in which all the details are not explained.
Statue which appeared to be significant somehow, but in the end, just got hit by the ship...
Um, what? We discovered that Jacob lived inside the statue (which is fairly significant) and the Black Rock crashed into it. While its origin isn't explained, it isn't really necessary.
Libby and her mental thingy in the original timeline.
This is the one point I'd have to agree with you on.
How or why Eloize knows everything.
I thought this was clearly spelled out - Daniel's journal.
The temple, which turned out to be big nothing.
It was just another location where some of the Others lived. I don't see the problem.
Who exactly ordered the purge? Alpert? Jacob? Both? Or they went along with Ben?
I believe in the Lost encyclopedia it was confirmed to be Widmore.
Pregnant women issue.
The Incident screwed it up.
Numbers.
They were the candidates. The LOST experience explains more of this, but I'm not positive if it's canon.
Smokey can go under the temple but not inside? Or what's the topography of his allowed movements.
He can go underneath but not inside because of Jacob's protection on the temple.
Once Jacob died, ash was used as an alternate way of keeping him out. Presumably this was somehow connected to Dogen, because once he died, the MIB could get inside, despite the ash.
Smokey can't leave the island, but appears to Jack in LA and to Michael on the freighter just fine. Looks like those rules were changed as they writers run out of ideas.
It is entirely possible that the MIB could appear to the Losties, while not physically leaving the Island. Alternatively, it could just be Jack's/Michael's hallucinations, or a manifestation of the Island.
And I can go on for about a hundred or more. I'd have to watch the whole show from the beginning though.

[iam1bearcat]

i've personally spent the better part of many years trying to kindly explain to people what is happening on LOST (the greatest show of all time) and people either just refuse to listen, refuse to accept, or refuse to find answers for themselves.

some people want / need everything served up nice and orderly on a plate. how fun

why can't people just think for themselves and find their own answers? does it make you sleep better at night if some random person on the internet tells you why the Temple is important? because, they didn't say it in the episode, so how does that person know? well, i don't know, maybe because they reached their own personal conclusion or picked up on something throughout the series? how many times has the show gone and said, "this is related to this and that's why this is important"? about twice.

either way, even if the finale would have been Cuse and Lindelof sitting in chairs reading answers off a screen for all you needy "i gotta have solid facts to a fictional show" (see how illogical that seems?) you STILL would have issues with it. and i have literally met people who when asked, "would you rather the finale just ha answers scroll across the screen with nothing happening?" and they say, "yeah! then i'd know stuff!" good to know some people can think for themselves and maybe o a bit of thinking with the show. because you know, after 5 seasons that's not how the show was - a think for yourself type show

the creators never once said, "in the final season we will give you every answer to every question" so why did people think the finale and season 6 in general would suddenly turn into that? then LOST wouldn't be LOST. and that's not the type of show i'd want to watch.

the stuff about pregnancies was pretty well addressed in numerous episodes. was it point blank "in your face" answers? no. of course not. it was rather cryptic and you had to put together the answers and dialogue pertaining to it yourself. THAT'S WHAT MADE THE SHOW INTERESTING AND FUN, among of course many other things.

and if people honestly don't understand the finale, particularly the final few scenes then i don't even know how you made it through the six seasons. it was not at all that difficult to follow or understand and yet right after it ended, there were people screaming, "so none of it happened?!" and that sums up the entire series. people are maybe thinking way too much into some things and just looking for errors or things that 'seem' wrong but aren't.

it's very sad really, but fun to read about who don't understand it. you're loss though, certainly not mine since i understand it

[Zvi]

Originally Posted by ts0323

IMO she abandoned him because MIB/Christian drugged her or tricked her into coming with him.

Or she got fed up with being a mom on the island, etc. Point is, that's your opinion and wasn't explained in the show, besides how does that explain why Aaron was oh so important in S1 and forgotten later.

Originally Posted by ts0323

I thought it was clear that Ben and Widmore's rules had been implemented by Jacob.

Again, "you thought", not in the show. Considering that we know Ben has never seen Jacob and we dunno if Widmore has seen him either...

Originally Posted by ts0323

Ben got Widmore kicked out because he regularly left the Island and had Penny with an outsider.

Very vague, and it's the same problem with other "explanations" in the show. BTW, we're not even clear who was Penny's mother.

Originally Posted by ts0323

Why does every single question have to be answered?

Here we go again If S6 fans can't answer a question, then it doesn't have to be answered. Well, with all due respect, I felt it had to be answered to some level because Island was a huge part of the show, bigger than many characters. It was too big to be discounted as a "detail".

Originally Posted by ts0323

Um, what? We discovered that Jacob lived inside the statue (which is fairly significant) and the Black Rock crashed into it. While its origin isn't explained, it isn't really necessary.

So, you never asked yourself, why Jacob choose to live in the statue, when there were plenty of places on the island? It needed to be explained because it was "fairly significant" as you yourself said. If it's significant, then it's necessary to give some explanation about.

Originally Posted by ts0323

How or why Eloize knows everything.
I thought this was clearly spelled out - Daniel's journal.

No, it wasn't. For one, Daniel didn't know as much as she did.
The temple, which turned out to be big nothing.

Originally Posted by ts0323

It was just another location where some of the Others lived. I don't see the problem.

Good for you I thought it was important, then it wasn't.

Originally Posted by ts0323

I believe in the Lost encyclopedia it was confirmed to be Widmore.

Lostpedia and any other fans site is not the show.

Originally Posted by ts0323

Pregnant women issue.
The Incident screwed it up.

Wrong. At lest there was nothing in the show that would confirm that theory. As far as I can tell, proponents of that theory simply connect nuke->radiation->childbirth problems, however radiation induced sterilization and birth defects have absolutely nothing to to with the symptoms females suffered described in great detail in Lost. As a minimum, guys wouldn't be more productive, if it was the radiation.

Originally Posted by ts0323

They were the candidates. The LOST experience explains more of this, but I'm not positive if it's canon.

And candidate numbers were broadcast from the radio tower long before their arrival or even birth And what about the Valenzetti equation? Why?

Originally Posted by ts0323

He can go underneath but not inside because of Jacob's protection on the temple.

Which apparently is not Jacob's protection, but Dogen's.

Originally Posted by ts0323

Once Jacob died, ash was used as an alternate way of keeping him out.

Who's ash btw? That's not important either I assume And ash apparently had no meaning w/o Dogen... So, Dogen gave ash its magical powers? Or not? Or it's not really important...

Originally Posted by ts0323

Presumably this was somehow connected to Dogen, because once he died, the MIB could get inside, despite the ash.

Right, presumably. Which is my problem that tons of things are inferred or presumed based on seemingly random or disconnected events.

Originally Posted by ts0323

It is entirely possible that the MIB could appear to the Losties, while not physically leaving the Island. Alternatively, it could just be Jack's/Michael's hallucinations, or a manifestation of the Island.

So, which one was it? I take, that wasn't really important either?

[iam1bearcat]

Originally Posted by Zvi

Lostpedia and any other fans site is not the show.

not lostpedia, the official LOST Encyclopedia. it was created with the creators (Cuse and Lindelof) who helped make sure everything was perfect in the book, thus why it didn't come out in August with season 6 like it was suppose to, but much later (October). and yes, in the book it says it was Widmore's plan for the Purge.

the book is not any "fan" made item, it is abc / LOST official.

but it's not filled with answers so you wouldn't be happy buying it

[NeoCortex]

Originally Posted by Zvi

Very vague, and it's the same problem with other "explanations" in the show. BTW, we're not even clear who was Penny's mother.

So, you never asked yourself, why Jacob choose to live in the statue, when there were plenty of places on the island? It needed to be explained because it was "fairly significant" as you yourself said. If it's significant, then it's necessary to give some explanation about.


No, it wasn't. For one, Daniel didn't know as much as she did.
The temple, which turned out to be big nothing.

What is vague about the Widmore leaving the island? It was stated pretty explicitly when he was being exiled that he was being kicked off because he routinely left the island and even fathered a child off-island. The identity of the mother is completely unimportant. All that matters is that it was someone that was an outsider.

Jacob lived in the statue because he felt like living in the statue. He has to live somewhere. If I was an island guardian living for centuries, I wouldn't mind living in a colossal statue.

Daniel didn't know as much as Hawking because the journal he had was being written by him. It had no future information. Once he died, the completed journal was given to Hawking in the past. She now had a lot of foreknowledge of things to come.

[iam1bearcat]

hey Zvi, i have the answer for why Widmore left / was kicked off the island:

the Others were out of peanut butter and he refused to go get more from Smokey so they banished him. there. happy now? see how much better that makes you feel? oh yeah, it doesn't, because that really doesn't matter with the story that was being told.