Square Enix Takes $150m Loss

[tarvis]

Originally Posted by Icemage

The grindtastic level-up system that requires random loot drops? That's a classic hallmark of Japanese RPG design.

I feel that's shared. Diablo, for example. Not saying that Demon's Souls is influenced by Diablo, just that it's not something I would say is purely Japanese.

Edit - Sorry, the random loot bit. Grinding I agree is very Japanese, but I don't think it's necessarily necessary for Demon's Souls after New Game +.

Edit two - Also minus the nah. Wholly discounting your opinion like that was a bit presumptuous of me. Sorry!

[hellmonkey]

Originally Posted by tarvis

Sorry, then what is it about Demon's Souls you feel is distinctly Japanese and/or original? Aesthetically or otherwise.

Its linear, theres ton of crap that is pretty much hidden unless you spend an obscene amount of time experimentting, its also your typical save the world from this big evil power plot. About the only thing non japanese about it was its lack of story, which is why i traded it in. I platted it, and really had no interest to play again becaue there is no story or deviation from game play. It was still fun though.

[Dixon]

Originally Posted by nameisjimbo

3. KH3: really, where the hell is this, it is one of the few major western hits in the old SE stable and what, handheld spinoffs only?

Totally agree. I really don't understand their reasoning for making a billion spin offs of the KH series while there are millions of people ready for KH3.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by Dixon

Totally agree. I really don't understand their reasoning for making a billion spin offs of the KH series while there are millions of people ready for KH3.

I do wonder how many FF fans are left after the disasters that were 12 and 13. I'd probably try to get into XenoGears and Parasite Eve if it weren't already 10 years past their time.

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by hellmonkey

Its linear, theres ton of crap that is pretty much hidden unless you spend an obscene amount of time experimentting

Or you buy the guide, which is a very Japanese tactic by publishers to sell the strategy guide. FFXII is very famous, where you only have 1/9000 chance of getting the ultimate weapon unless you know exactly what to do really early in the game.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by Maximus

Or you buy the guide, which is a very Japanese tactic by publishers to sell the strategy guide. FFXII is very famous, where you only have 1/9000 chance of getting the ultimate weapon unless you know exactly what to do really early in the game.

My knock on FFXII is it was very easy to get lost and 2/3 of the time I got lost, the monsters I encountered wiped out my party in 30 seconds. Not a game I'll ever be visiting again, I imagine.

[tarvis]

Originally Posted by hellmonkey

Its linear....

Demon's Souls is non-linear. While you have to complete the levels within a world in order, in what order you choose to complete the worlds themselves is your choice.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by Icemage

The grindtastic level-up system that requires random loot drops? That's a classic hallmark of Japanese RPG design.

I "like" grinding as much as the next person but it does get boring, it's too bad more games didn't have the sphere system of FFX where you can customize what you get with each level-up, with what you want/need.

[hellmonkey]

Originally Posted by tarvis

Demon's Souls is non-linear. While you have to complete the levels within a world in order, in what order you choose to complete the worlds themselves is your choice.

Well, its both. The order you do them in can be your choice, but teh level progression itself is very linear. You also cant skip one area if you want to beat the game, so you are forced to do everything. The westeren RPGs, things can be skipped and you can still beat the game. Way more linear than not.

[Gaius Marius]

Originally Posted by Dixon

Totally agree. I really don't understand their reasoning for making a billion spin offs of the KH series while there are millions of people ready for KH3.

Agreed. I'm sick of all the KH spin-offs that don't seem to be that different. I want KH3 already!

S/E is solely relying on the Enix end of the business now, as the DQ games are the only good ones coming out (DGVIII, IX, and Monsters were all great games). Final Fantasy reached it's peak in the SNES days IMO, though FFVII and IX were fun games. FFX was a good game, but I felt it is where the FF series started it's downfall. FFXII was bland. It was fun to play, but where the heck was the story!? It was just a whole lot of "go from A to B" and when you finally got to B after all of the grinding, you forgot why you were there.

It is sad remembering Square's golden age on the SNES with FFIV, VI, Chrono Trigger and Secret of Mana and seeing the turds they crap out now. They rely on that golden age to make money still with remakes and re-releases. I also have to agree that the best way for S/E to make money now is to further this trend and re-release FFVII on the PS3. Really, a good FFVII remake and KH3 will help out S/E a lot, but those seem to be the games they don't want to release.

[Mouse]

Personally, I hated the "sphere" system in FFX and the story just didn't keep my attention in FFXII... I think I've been somewhere around 50-60% complete for the past several years as I just don't feel like playing it and it's odd "Gambit" system. It's too bad nearly all RPGs these days have done away with the traditional "Turn Based" fighting system. FFVII was my favorite with FFIX coming in behind that. I'm not even going to try another FF game until they go back to the Fantasy portion of the game and keep the Sci-Fi stuff to a minimum.

[Gaius Marius]

Originally Posted by Mouse

Personally, I hated the "sphere" system in FFX and the story just didn't keep my attention in FFXII... I think I've been somewhere around 50-60% complete for the past several years as I just don't feel like playing it and it's odd "Gambit" system. It's too bad nearly all RPGs these days have done away with the traditional "Turn Based" fighting system. FFVII was my favorite with FFIX coming in behind that. I'm not even going to try another FF game until they go back to the Fantasy portion of the game and keep the Sci-Fi stuff to a minimum.

Agreed with the setting issue! It is Final Fantasy, not Final Sci-Fi or Final Modern Emo Fest. I hate how FF has gotten more and more sci-fi. If they want to create a sci-fi RPG, then create a new series and quit milking the FF name. It just seems silly to me that they have all of this futuristic technology, but it still resorts to you killing monsters in a field with a sword

[Septimus Prime]

Originally Posted by Mouse

Personally, I hated the "sphere" system in FFX and the story just didn't keep my attention in FFXII... I think I've been somewhere around 50-60% complete for the past several years as I just don't feel like playing it and it's odd "Gambit" system. It's too bad nearly all RPGs these days have done away with the traditional "Turn Based" fighting system. FFVII was my favorite with FFIX coming in behind that. I'm not even going to try another FF game until they go back to the Fantasy portion of the game and keep the Sci-Fi stuff to a minimum.

Golden Sun still uses that system, and therein lies my point (and brings us back on-topic): Golden Sun is a traditional Japanese RPG by a traditional Japanese publisher (Nintendo), who isn't trying to "Westernize" its library and is wildly successful for keeping its old focus.

Yes, Nintendo does a lot of non-traditional experiments and demographic expansions, but its flagship brands don't change that much (if you think about it, what, exactly, is new about New Super Mario Bros., aside from the graphics and multiplayer support?).

[MOONPHASE]

Originally Posted by Maximus

I think we can add Namco, Capcom, NISA and Square to the publishers who bet on westernisation this gen and only Capcom have seen some kind of return. NISA are almost bankrupt and Namco are retrenching. On the other hand Level-5, From Software and Konami stuck with the Japanese structure and all of them have done well this gen. Level-5 especially, they have literally snubbed western ways in every way possible from refusing to work with Microsoft and rarely bothering to publish their own games abroad but they are easily the biggest winners this gen.

I don't really think NISA belongs in that category and never will. They can't even make their own game, they just bring over what Japan has from their Japanese publisher/developing company makes and also titles from Gust and Compile Heart/Idea Factory, and whatever else their fans will buy. Plus they would never bring over something that seems Westernized since well their games are pretty much very Japanese-style. Plus NIS Japan would never really develop any Westernized game.

NIS America as well as NIS Japan pretty much suffers for being only a niche company with people not really knowing about their games except for like the niche JRPG fans that buy their a little more popular titles like Disgaea, Ar tonelico, and slowly gradually the Atelier series or pretty much their loyal fans who buy any game they bring to America regardless of what the game is. But from what I understand is that NIS Japan was the one who was suffering last year not so much NIS America. Plus NISA has been improving slowly in more recent times by gaining a little more fans. But companies like NIS, Idea Factory, Gust, Aquaplus, and so on will always be considered as niche developers that usually do produce lower budget titles so sales don't need be to too high since they would lose a lot more money if they spent too much money on making their games but are still usually excellent games. Plus lately they have been making some money off of their ports to like PSP.

[Terjyn]

Originally Posted by tarvis

Sorry, then what is it about Demon's Souls you feel is distinctly Japanese and/or original? Aesthetically or otherwise.

I started out by saying while it's not traditional JRPG, it's not Western RPG either.

To me it's original in that when people ask "What other games is Demon's Souls like?", I have no answer. I've never seen an answer to that question I agree with either.

[richieb1971]

Square are one of those studios that squeezed 100% out of last gen but find this hardware generation has exceeded their limitations of design. Sometimes devs spend too much time trying to fill a disc, get the polygon count up, get the resolution right.. that after they did spend the whole budget on that they ended up with a bland game to actually play. Sometimes filling the container isn't as important as making sure whats in the container is potent.

[Icemage]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Stormcrow

I "like" grinding as much as the next person but it does get boring, it's too bad more games didn't have the sphere system of FFX where you can customize what you get with each level-up, with what you want/need.

What? Demon's Souls gives you almost complete control over the development of your character. Aside from the basic starting stats and equipment (which are mostly window dressing aside from Royalty starting with the very powerful Fragrant Ring), you can tilt any character in any direction you choose based on what stats you want to develop and what equipment you choose to use (based on those stats).

[tarvis]

Or you could play Wizardry and have an entire party you customize! !! Another dungeon crawl like Demon's Souls.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by tarvis

Or you could play Wizardry and have an entire party of people you customize! !! Another dungeon crawl like Demon's Souls.

LOL I only like customizing the stats, I'm one of those who prefer to have set skills, customizing your characters' basic abilities makes them feel generic and boring.

[tarvis]

But that's what makes them uniquely your own. Unhappy emoticon :( Though, admittedly, that was a joke. Since, unless you can read Kanji, those are some rather old games. But if you can read Kanji, to the PSN!