ABC's "Lost" Discussion (2004-2010)

[menaceuk]

Originally Posted by Blu Tide

I always thought he picked the knife because he was always a "hunter."

That it what I originally thought too but watching that Episode this morning I got the Feeling that is what for other reasons.

[Chordata]

So was one of the silly "rules" that the MIB could not kill candidates, but he could make them kill each other?

Re-watching S1 (actually, there are a few episodes I never saw, so I'm seeing them for the first time), a couple things strike me:

1. The "MIB was Christian" in "White Rabbit" was such a ridiculous afterthought. I guarantee they originally intended for Christian to be resurrected on the island, and didn't connect it with the Smoke Monster until much much later.

2. They really should have made it so that Smokey took over Locke's body early on. If you rewatch, you see he has some really sinister looks and comments. It would've been so much better if the whole series was MIB's "long con" and he took over Locke's body in S1 as opposed to S5.

3. What a great show!

Thoughts or comments?

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by menaceuk

In season 4 where Richard goes to see Locke as a child, Is the reason he picks the Knife because of the Events with the MIB and him taking over Lockes body ?

I'm with Tide, I think it was just because he always had that hunter instinct.

[BergerForLife]

Originally Posted by O_V_N

1. The "MIB was Christian" in "White Rabbit" was such a ridiculous afterthought. I guarantee they originally intended for Christian to be resurrected on the island, and didn't connect it with the Smoke Monster until much much later.

Hmm idk about this one. It's possible of course, but I'd have to disagree. The way Christian looks and acts on island seems more as if he's possessed. The way he turns and looks at Jack all evil when Jack says "Dad?". Seems to me like they meant for him to not be himself.

Originally Posted by O_V_N

2. They really should have made it so that Smokey took over Locke's body early on. If you rewatch, you see he has some really sinister looks and comments. It would've been so much better if the whole series was MIB's "long con" and he took over Locke's body in S1 as opposed to S5.

Now this was very interesting. The way Locke looked and acted in the first few episodes did lead us to believe something bigger was going on with him. It did seem possible that they wanted him to be smokey from the beginning. I think they might have changed their minds on that one, and it was probably because John Locke became too awesome of a character to say he was essentially fake the whole time.

Originally Posted by O_V_N

3. What a great show!

Agreed!

[menaceuk]

Originally Posted by O_V_N

2. They really should have made it so that Smokey took over Locke's body early on. If you rewatch, you see he has some really sinister looks and comments. It would've been so much better if the whole series was MIB's "long con" and he took over Locke's body in S1 as opposed to S5.



Thoughts or comments?

Technically It was all a long con by MIB, He pretended to be people he wasn't and got people, mainly Locke to do things he actually shouldn't have done and the Ben Linus factor just made things easier for him.


There are times in season 1 that when I re-watched it after seeing season 6 I often thought Lock was already taken over by MIB but Honestly having MIB doing that from the start would have messed up the character progression as good lock is important to the growth of Jack.

[HockeySlasher]

deleted.

Menaceuk pretty much summed it up.

That's what I get for not reading all the way though before posting.

[Chordata]

My list continues (and by the way, I'm not doing this to nitpick or whine; I'm doing it because I have questions/issues and I like the dialogue here):

4. Why/how did MIB "infect" Rousseau's team, but he killed everyone else?

5. It makes no sense to me that MIB "lived" under the temple, yet he couldn't enter the temple.

[menaceuk]

The Smoke Monster Infected Ben Linus didn't it ? Seems to make sense considering how everything he does is bad and aids MIB in his attempts to get off the Island.

[menaceuk]

Originally Posted by O_V_N

My list continues (and by the way, I'm not doing this to nitpick or whine; I'm doing it because I have questions/issues and I like the dialogue here):

4. Why/how did MIB "infect" Rousseau's team, but he killed everyone else?

5. It makes no sense to me that MIB "lived" under the temple, yet he couldn't enter the temple.

Don't know why or How but he Infected Syid and Claire too, Perhaps it is something in them.

He could enter the Temple, It wasn't until they put the Ash around the Temple that he wasn't supposed to be able to get in.

[Zvi]

Originally Posted by menaceuk

Don't know why or How but he Infected Syid and Claire too, Perhaps it is something in them.

And Sayind was cured by just a "sweet talk" with Desmond. Claire - I dunno, she was very cranky and annoying from S1 to S6. I really enjoyed episodes where she wasn't on screen constantly yelling at someone. We can assume, she was automatically cured after MIB was killed, or she stayed crazy, hard to tell the difference anyway.

Originally Posted by menaceuk

He could enter the Temple, It wasn't until they put the Ash around the Temple that he wasn't supposed to be able to get in.

Well, apparently temple needed more than the ash, Dogen type person to prevent MIB from entering.

[Chordata]

Originally Posted by menaceuk

Don't know why or How but he Infected Syid and Claire too, Perhaps it is something in them.
.

Yep, you're exactly right, totally forgot about them.

By the way, that whole disappearing Claire act still bothers me.

Originally Posted by Zvi

And Sayind was cured by just a "sweet talk" with Desmond. Claire - I dunno, she was very cranky and annoying from S1 to S6. I really enjoyed episodes where she wasn't on screen constantly yelling at someone. We can assume, she was automatically cured after MIB was killed, or she stayed crazy, hard to tell the difference anyway.

She hardly yells at all in S1 and isn't cranky at all, from what I recall. She's also not in S5.

[SDon1969]

Originally Posted by O_V_N

Re-watching S1 (actually, there are a few episodes I never saw, so I'm seeing them for the first time), a couple things strike me:

Same here, I am up to Season Two, Disc 4.

1) That whole Walt story really went nowhere, huh? What was up with him showing up on the Island (mostly to Shannon) after his kidnapping with water running down his head. Was that the MIB just freaking people out? It got Shannon shot...

2) When Walt is kidnapped and the raft is destroyed, Sawyer and Michael are drifting on two pieces of the raft. When Sawyer's breaks up, we see a shark swim by and it has a Dharma symbol on its underbelly. I never noticed that before (I'm sure most here did) - must just be marked by the Dharma scientists?

3) And rewatching it all, I have seen what you guys are talking about with Locke. Twice now, the camera has slowly panned all the way around his head, finally focusing in on his creepy eyes while sinister music plays.

[menaceuk]

Originally Posted by Zvi

And Sayind was cured by just a "sweet talk" with Desmond. Claire - I dunno, she was very cranky and annoying from S1 to S6. I really enjoyed episodes where she wasn't on screen constantly yelling at someone. We can assume, she was automatically cured after MIB was killed, or she stayed crazy, hard to tell the difference anyway.


Well, apparently temple needed more than the ash, Dogen type person to prevent MIB from entering.

Was he cured or was it simply his connection to the other candidates and Desmond that made him do the right thing ? If he was cured he wouldn't have died when taking the Bomb as that would have been considered suicide which the candidates can't do.

Actually come to think of it, was Syid a candidate ? can't seem to remeber for sure.

Originally Posted by SDon1969

Same here, I am up to Season Two, Disc 4.

1) That whole Walt story really went nowhere, huh? What was up with him showing up on the Island (mostly to Shannon) after his kidnapping with water running down his head. Was that the MIB just freaking people out? It got Shannon shot...

2) When Walt is kidnapped and the raft is destroyed, Sawyer and Michael are drifting on two pieces of the raft. When Sawyer's breaks up, we see a shark swim by and it has a Dharma symbol on its underbelly. I never noticed that before (I'm sure most here did) - must just be marked by the Dharma scientists?

3) And rewatching it all, I have seen what you guys are talking about with Locke. Twice now, the camera has slowly panned all the way around his head, finally focusing in on his creepy eyes while sinister music plays.

1.Yep that storyline wen't nowhere which is a shame and No, I don't think it was MIB pretending to be walt as there is a reference in season 2 of Walt showing up in places he shouldn't have been and he also tried to warn them too with the whole quiet hand gesture.

2.The Dharma did experiments on the sharks and other sea life, I presume to see the affects the proximity of the Island had on the Natural wildlife.

3.I actually believe that those shots were to Illustrate the importance of Lock and maybe also for a bit of confusion and doubt come season 5-6.

[Zvi]

Originally Posted by menaceuk

Was he cured or was it simply his connection to the other candidates and Desmond that made him do the right thing ? If he was cured he wouldn't have died when taking the Bomb as that would have been considered suicide which the candidates can't do.

Well, considering the contradicting rules the island or Jacob or both put in place... Candidates can't die only up to certain point, then for inexplicable reasons they can die. MIB rigged the bomb timer in a way to make candidates kill themselves. Well, few episodes before that dynamite refuses to explode not to harm Jack. Go figure, if rules applied to dynamite but not to C4, or it was MIB that affected "can't kill yourself" rule or it was change in rules, or what the hell happened.

Originally Posted by menaceuk

Actually come to think of it, was Syid a candidate ? can't seem to remeber for sure.

he was a candidate, his name was in the cave, not even crossed, number 16.

[Alpha]

The whole infection thing was never resolved, nor was it explained fully. At first, Danielle mentions it to Claire, and there's the whole vaccine thing from Dharma. Kelvin lied to Desmond about going outstide and everything, so that was a dead-end. And although Claire used the vaccine, there was really no backstory to what that really was. Then Sayid came back, but was apparently possessed...and again, we heard the word "infected". So I mean, maybe with Danielle's team, MIB DID kill them, and they were brought back in the same fashion as Sayid. But even then, Sayid wasn't "bad" right away. So whatever, that's one of the bigger questions never answered.

[menaceuk]

Originally Posted by Zvi

Well, considering the contradicting rules the island or Jacob or both put in place... Candidates can't die only up to certain point, then for inexplicable reasons they can die. MIB rigged the bomb timer in a way to make candidates kill themselves. Well, few episodes before that dynamite refuses to explode not to harm Jack. Go figure, if rules applied to dynamite but not to C4, or it was MIB that affected "can't kill yourself" rule or it was change in rules, or what the hell happened.


he was a candidate, his name was in the cave, not even crossed, number 16.

They weren't contradicting, The Candidates could die but Not by there own actions and MIB couldn't kill them, If lock hadn't been through what he had in his normal life then Ben would've killed him long a go.Also the death of Jacob seems to be where the rules changed, which kind of makes sense as nothing happens to any of them until after that event.

[Zvi]

Originally Posted by menaceuk

They weren't contradicting, The Candidates could die but Not by there own actions and MIB couldn't kill them...

In that case Jack and Alpert would've blown up themselves with the dynamite... Alpert lit the fuse on dynamite, Jack was very sure he wouldn't die and just sat there. Was not his action.

And if you read this thread earlier, S6 proponents were making that argument (candidates can't die) when I argued it was stupid for Jacob to bring candidates by crashing planes on the island, risking their lives.

[CYMBOL]

So, do you guys think the writers intended for the "Smoke Monster" to be the MiB character from the beginning?

The Smoke Monster has a VERY mechanical sound from the beginning - and Sayid, says he suspects it's some kind of security system.

Later, we find out it's some dude that fell down into a well of Light.

So, what do you guys think - was Smokey always supposed to be MiB?

[menaceuk]

Originally Posted by CYMBOL

So, do you guys think the writers intended for the "Smoke Monster" to be the MiB character from the beginning?

The Smoke Monster has a VERY mechanical sound from the beginning - and Sayid, says he suspects it's some kind of security system.

Later, we find out it's some dude that fell down into a well of Light.

So, what do you guys think - was Smokey always supposed to be MiB?

Yes he was always meant to be that and it is a security system and it was always his job to protect the Island, not Jacobs.

[Chordata]

Originally Posted by menaceuk

Yes he was always meant to be that and it is a security system and it was always his job to protect the Island, not Jacobs.

My interpretation differs from yours. I do not think that MIB=Smokey in S1; I think they made that up as they went along, but maybe I'll think differently as I re-watch the earlier seasons.

I also do not think it was MIB's job to protect the island, not Jacob's. Jacob's mom was very clear on that.