Archived: Insiders Thread

[Avarond]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

As you would expect, we think we can make something that works well on PSP as a first step. The schedule is not fixed yet, but it would be interesting to know how the members here feel about how attractive a feature this is.

I would say it would be a very attractive feature. We have 2 Ipods and 3 PSPs (my phone even plays mp4s) and would be very interested in a scaled down version of the movie on the same disc.

[Talkstr8t]

Hi, everyone! Josh invited me to join this forum (paidgeek seems lonely!), so I'll be happy to respond where I can. By way of background, please note that I choose not to reveal my name nor company, primarily so that I have freedom to post opinions which might not make my company's PR people too happy. Of course, this would appear to be a much friendlier environment than the "other" place where i spend much time, so I doubt I'll be quite as controversial over here! My company is a provider of technology found in every Blu-ray player, and I work with most of the device manufacturers and studios on a regular basis. I also attend BDA meetings on a regular basis.

Like paidgeek, much of my online time in the forums comes out of family time, so there may be periods where I'm not particularly responsive.

[Talkstr8t]

Originally Posted by WriteSimply

BD-Java features are trickling in with new releases. Is the trickling effect caused by BD-Java VM software is not inside current BD players (right now only Pioneer)?

All Blu-ray players fully support BD-J. BD-J is a complex specification, however, so as with most new formats there is a "settling out" period where CE vendors and content providers learn what works well, what works less well, and what doesn't work at all. Fortunately the last category has been relatively infrequent, but firmware updates help to resolve things. In spite of slightly ambiguous wording by both Samsung and Sony, both players shipped with BD-J support, but subsequent updates have improved compatibility and performance. I expect this process to continue.

How much more confident are you and your colleagues in handling titles meant to include BD-Java interactivity?

I am seeing great enthusiasm from the Blu-ray exclusive studios to really push BD-J content as quickly as the tools and the devices allow. I think we'll see very compelling content later this year.

Apart from your department and Panasonic encoding labs, how many other companies doing BD authoring have grown more comfortable with BD-J?

It's still very early - not much exists in the way of mature tools, especially tools targeting non-programmers. Work is underway; once these tools become more widely available I think we'll see a very rapid increase in BD-J production.

- Talk

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by Talkstr8t

Hi, everyone! Josh invited me to join this forum (paidgeek seems lonely!), so I'll be happy to respond where I can. By way of background, please note that I choose not to reveal my name nor company, primarily so that I have freedom to post opinions which might not make my company's PR people too happy. Of course, this would appear to be a much friendlier environment than the "other" place where i spend much time, so I doubt I'll be quite as controversial over here! My company is a provider of technology found in every Blu-ray player, and I work with most of the device manufacturers and studios on a regular basis. I also attend BDA meetings on a regular basis.

Like paidgeek, much of my online time in the forums comes out of family time, so there may be periods where I'm not particularly responsive.

Welcome aboard.

[Garconis]

Originally Posted by Avarond

I would say it would be a very attractive feature. We have 2 Ipods and 3 PSPs (my phone even plays mp4s) and would be very interested in a scaled down version of the movie on the same disc.

Yes, it would be very nice, and something not everyone would expect. So it would be a nice surprise to some, and definitely another attraction to BD. Just so long as you make it a format that would work on iPod too, seeing how they own around 70% of the mp3 market (though only a fraction of that 70% actually are the video iPods).

[kjack]

Hi! Gary was kind enough to invite to join here.

My background is a supplier of decoder chips for Blu-ray and HD DVD players. I attended the BDA and HD DVD meetings for a few years now, I [try to] ensure our products support the specifications and any player-specific-feature requests in a timely manner, and I attempt to convince player manufacturers to use our chip into their players.

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

As I understand it, P-frames forward correct the last I frame, while B-frames backward correct the next I-frame.

Since the grain is part of the I-frames, is the lack of grain management in the P/B-frames due to a lack of bits assigned, or an actual hard limit on the allowed size of one of these frames?

That is, for a given P/B is the problem that they need to contain more bits than VC-1 is using (perhaps because of overall bandwidth issues), or are they hitting hard limits defined in the spec?

I know the GOP length is in favour of BD. So, are there differences in P/B-frame sizes for each format?

Am I also right that the nature of B-frames requires all the B-frames and the next I-frame to be read ahead to processed back (sort of like requiring the decoder to go backwards in time from the bext I-frame)? That clearly has bandwidth ramifications.

Gary

Gary, please excuse me for referring you to a link, but your questions have been covered by others with better descriptive skills than me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-2#...8simplified.29

[LembasBread]

paidgeek, is there any truth to the rumors that Sony is considering or in the process of remastering The Fifth Element and optimizing it for BD-50 after its poor reviews/reception by BD & Fifth Element fans?

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by Talkstr8t

I am seeing great enthusiasm from the Blu-ray exclusive studios to really push BD-J content as quickly as the tools and the devices allow. I think we'll see very compelling content later this year.

Would it be fair to say that since BD-J is a powerful full application development language, it will naturally take some time for expertise and tools to be developped in comparison to HDi which is really a scripting language that is deliberately simplified to minimize the learning curve and make tools easier to develop?

Correct me if I'm wrong:

HDi's simplicity (and no need to test player operability for one player model) means titles that use it were able to come faster, but ultimately the BD-J apps will vastly exceed HDi's capabilities.

And, as I understand it, the HDi "programming" simplicity comes with an extreme computation complexity cost. It ironically takes more compute power to render HDi (it's like a web page) and to obtain this lack of capability.

Gary

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by LembasBread

paidgeek, is there any truth to the rumors that Sony is considering or in the process of remastering The Fifth Element and optimizing it for BD-50 after its poor reviews/reception by BD & Fifth Element fans?

Yes, no rumor about it, we are working on a new transfer and will make a new version available in the near future. For those unhappy with the original version, we are considering how to provide an exchange for the new one.

[Deane Johnson]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

Yes, no rumor about it, we are working on a new transfer and will make a new version available in the near future. For those unhappy with the original version, we are considering how to provide an exchange for the new one.

Now that's a responsible and professional way to handle the situation. Hats off to Sony. And kudos to Sony for having their professionals on these forums setting the records straight.

[GoldenRedux]

For either Talk or Kevin,

Can either of you confirm whether the upcoming FW update for the Panasonic DMP-BD1 Blu-ray to enable decoding of the advanced audio codecs scheduled for April will allow decoding of DTS-HD MA? Panasonic was not specifically about this. They mention Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD, but not specifically DTS-HD MA.

[Garconis]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

Yes, no rumor about it, we are working on a new transfer and will make a new version available in the near future. For those unhappy with the original version, we are considering how to provide an exchange for the new one.

Wow, thats pretty impressive. I'm personally not a big 5th Element fan, but its cool to hear you guys are trying to still improve the BD movies and please your customers. So, props on that. Also, are there any other movies that you are already working a second time? And I think most of us here would agree, that in the future, please spend as much time on a movie to get it AWESOME before it is released. I would rather have an awesome looking movie a few extra months down the road if it is needed, rather than a not-so-good-looking transfer tomorrow.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Garconis

Wow, thats pretty impressive. I'm personally not a big 5th Element fan, but its cool to hear you guys are trying to still improve the BD movies and please your customers. So, props on that. Also, are there any other movies that you are already working a second time? And I think most of us here would agree, that in the future, please spend as much time on a movie to get it AWESOME before it is released. I would rather have an awesome looking movie a few extra months down the road if it is needed, rather than a not-so-good-looking transfer tomorrow.

I'd just like to say that outside of The Fifth Element and House of Flying Daggers, I think Sony has done a great job ensuring that their titles are up to par.

What I'd like to ask paidgeek is how soon, now that Sony is testing the MPEG-4 waters, we will see 24/48 DTS-MA tracks on their releases or do they intend to stick with PCM for now, as their BD inserts seem to suggest. (Uncompressed)
With the abundance of BD50 discs will we start to see some 24-bit PCM tracks like the ones Disney/BVHE are doing?

(PS - welcome to the forum paidgeek, keith and talk)

[Talkstr8t]

Originally Posted by GoldenRedux

For either Talk or Kevin

I think that's "Keith", not "Kevin"

Can either of you confirm whether the upcoming FW update for the Panasonic DMP-BD1 Blu-ray to enable decoding of the advanced audio codecs scheduled for April will allow decoding of DTS-HD MA?

I'm at the BDA meetings this week, will try to track down a Panasonic colleague for a response.

- Talk

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by Garconis

Wow, thats pretty impressive. I'm personally not a big 5th Element fan, but its cool to hear you guys are trying to still improve the BD movies and please your customers. So, props on that. Also, are there any other movies that you are already working a second time? And I think most of us here would agree, that in the future, please spend as much time on a movie to get it AWESOME before it is released. I would rather have an awesome looking movie a few extra months down the road if it is needed, rather than a not-so-good-looking transfer tomorrow.

There are no other movies we are looking to re-release. We hear you loud and clear about getting it as right as it can be the first time.

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

I'd just like to say that outside of The Fifth Element and House of Flying Daggers, I think Sony has done a great job ensuring that their titles are up to par.

What I'd like to ask paidgeek is how soon, now that Sony is testing the MPEG-4 waters, we will see 24/48 DTS-MA tracks on their releases or do they intend to stick with PCM for now, as their BD inserts seem to suggest. (Uncompressed)
With the abundance of BD50 discs will we start to see some 24-bit PCM tracks like the ones Disney/BVHE are doing?

(PS - welcome to the forum paidgeek, keith and talk)

I am going to start forgetting what I have posted where...

We are looking at Dolby THD for Europe since more players are, or are scheduled to support that. We may use 24/48 LPCM on certain US titles, but nothing that is in production right now.

[Talkstr8t]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

Would it be fair to say that since BD-J is a powerful full application development language, it will naturally take some time for expertise and tools to be developped in comparison to HDi which is really a scripting language that is deliberately simplified to minimize the learning curve and make tools easier to develop?

I think this is a fair statement.

HDi's simplicity (and no need to test player operability for one player model) means titles that use it were able to come faster, but ultimately the BD-J apps will vastly exceed HDi's capabilities.

The term "vastly" is highly-subjective, but it's hard to argue the point that BD-J is a far more flexible platform for content creation. However, I think it will be quite some time (more than a year) before BD-J content is routinely doing things that HDi can't reasonably accomplish.

And, as I understand it, the HDi "programming" simplicity comes with an extreme computation complexity cost. It ironically takes more compute power to render HDi (it's like a web page) and to obtain this lack of capability.

Yes, again this is basically correct. An HDi implementation is essentially a customized web browser. Building a web browser with enough flexibility to support studio requirements is a fairly complex application which needs a fair amount of memory / CPU to perform adequately. By contrast, implementing BD-J itself doesn't necessarily require a significant hardware platform, though the CPU/memory available can certainly impact the performance of the applications. For example, this can be seen in the smoothly moving spotlight on The Descent on the PS3 versus the non-animated spotlight on the Samsung player.

- Talk

[phloyd]

Furthering the HDi/BD-J talk...

Perhaps Keith is best to answer this... what are the requirements for HDi in terms of resources?

We have heard the need for WinCE and that this has hindered implementing HDi on SoC solutions like the Sigma Designs.

Are there plans for Sigma to support WinCE and/or HDi in the future?

It seems to me that BD has a better path to cost effective players than HD DVD if the need to ship a 'PC' with every HD DVD player remains.

(Sorry for a question mostly oriented towards HD DVD - but getting a straight answer about this is difficult ).

[Josh]

I have a question for Talk:

As you mentioned, the spot light reacts differently on the Samsung and other Blu-ray players. Is the capability of the player detected before the menu is put on the screen? For instance, does the Samsung fail to show the sweeping flashlight or does the Java detect that the Samsung can't do it, and therefore doesn't even try to show it?