Ask questions to The Digital Bits team (Bill Hunt, Jeff Kleist et.al.)

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

You're saying the same thing twice. A movie at odds with the Alien universe cannot be called "alien". With that series you expect a certain base formula and structure. By removing the Alien title, you make yourself free

He's differentiating specifically because he knows your opinion on franchise brands.

The new Battlestar Galactica had humans and cylons and the same basic story, so they didn't need to rename it for fear of accusations of false advertising - there were tonal differences, but nothing that would make the general populace question its legitimacy. If Prometheus does not have aliens as a central component of the story, then people WOULD accuse it of false advertising if they kept Alien in the title. There is a big distinction between the two scenarios to most people.

But we know you consider both to be the same thing, or at least equally offensive.

edit: I anticipate a reply asking "What new Battlestar Galactica show?"

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

He's differentiating specifically because he knows your opinion on franchise brands.

The new Battlestar Galactica had humans and cylons and the same basic story, so they didn't need to rename it for fear of accusations of false advertising - there were tonal differences, but nothing that would make the general populace question its legitimacy. If Prometheus does not have aliens as a central component of the story, then people WOULD accuse it of false advertising if they kept Alien in the title. There is a big distinction between the two scenarios to most people.

But we know you consider both to be the same thing, or at least equally offensive.

edit: I anticipate a reply asking "What new Battlestar Galactica show?"

If aliens aren't central to the story, then what would be?

So Jeff, if Im understanding correctly it seems like they are making a film that tells the story about the Space Jockey. Is that correct? Or is it just a film that takes place in the Alien Universe or (D none of the above.

If that is the case then aliens would have to be involved somehow.

I would however like to see them come up with a way to explain how the company knew about the Alien ship which caused them to send Ash with the Nostromo crew to investigate it under the guise of collecting mineral ore.

I also hope that David Giler and Walter Hill got some input Prometheus since they were the ones responsible for inventing Ash and the company. If you listen to the bluray commentary and watch the Making of Alien you will find it amusing that Ronald Shusett loved the addition of Ash, while O'Bannon hated it!

[Jeff Kleist]

The new Battlestar Galactica had humans and cylons and the same basic story, so they didn't need to rename it for fear of accusations of false advertising - there were tonal differences, but nothing that would make the general populace question its legitimacy. If Prometheus does not have aliens as a central component of the story, then people WOULD accuse it of false advertising if they kept Alien in the title. There is a big distinction between the two scenarios to most people.

As they are not negating the events, remaking, "re-imagining", or otherwise supplanting the original

And you obviously never watched BSG, They're not even as similar as Romeo and Juliet and West Side Story, in fact Ron Moore's Space Show is so different, and even radically contrary to the original that it's not a valid comparison at all.

Prometheus is by the best evidence a side story that doesn't wish to bring the baggage of the Alien narrative framework to the table. How it turns out is totally up in the air, but given Mr. Scott's track record, and the fact that he helped create that framework in the first place, gives him the benefit of the doubt. I don't hang people without direct evidence.

I was actually watching the Alien Anthology extras the other night, and everybody talks on there about how they thought Alien vs Predator was a bad idea. The only bad idea was giving it to Paul Anderson and doing it on present day earth. Why no one seems to be able to figure out that people have been waiting for Aliens 2 with Colonial Marines for 25 years is beyond me AvP could have been good, had they done it that way. Alien to Aliens is more how I see Prometheus. A radical tonal and situational change that maintains the universe, just without the usual "nature will find a way" formula of the franchise.

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

As they are not negating the events, remaking, "re-imagining", or otherwise supplanting the original

This is what I don't even want to touch. I feel multiple takes can stand on their own without "negating" or "supplanting" one another.

And you obviously never watched BSG, They're not even as similar as Romeo and Juliet and West Side Story, in fact Ron Moore's Space Show is so different, and even radically contrary to the original that it's not a valid comparison at all.

Humans create cylons, cylons rebel and attack humanity, humanity flees through space. It's the same characters (in name and status, if not in personality), with the same event setting them into motion. I understand that there are a million differences between the two BSG shows, but my point was that those differences don't negate the basic plot similarities for many people in regards to them thinking something is false advertisement or not.

I know you think the two shows have absolutely zero in common, but please accept that your viewpoint is an extreme outlier. I am not challenging you on your opinion on the show - merely showing how your opinion on it differs from the majority, to qualify Doctorossi's statements (which I agree with).

[Jeff Kleist]

Humans create cylons, cylons rebel and attack humanity, humanity flees through space.

Wrong. In fact Moore took a fairly original story and de-complexified it into a terminator ripoff

It's the same characters (in name and status, if not in personality), with the same event setting them into motion

Nope, there are actually very few characters from the original as opposed to new ones. I can count them on one hand.

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Wrong. As I said, shows you haven't watched it.

Good lord. I'm sorry, in the original BSG reptiles create cylons, cylons rebel and kill them, then later attack humanity, and humanity flees through space. Totally different. The point remains that your opinion is an extreme outlier - that is the only point I was ever trying to make, and now it's totally lost in this nonsense about BSG.

[Jeff Kleist]

ood lord. I'm sorry, in the original BSG reptiles create cylons, cylons rebel and kill them, then later attack humanity, and humanity flees through space. Totally different

Still only half right at best

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Still only half right at best

Still haven't even addressed the actual point, 3 posts later. I quit.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

You're saying the same thing twice. A movie at odds with the Alien universe cannot be called "alien". With that series you expect a certain base formula and structure. By removing the Alien title, you make yourself free

Ok. It seemed like you were suggesting that the story was likely to betray the details established by the Alien series and that was the reason it needed to be separated/distanced.

[Jeff Kleist]

In the real story, humanity reached out into the galaxy, and met many other races. The Cylons were like the Borg (before there were Borg on Star Trek), conquering and stomping out individuality throughout the galaxy. When they attacked the Furlings (where SG-1 got the name), humanity had a mutual defense pact with them and was drawn into the fight. While the Furlings fell, humanity had held on for the last thousand years.

The origins of the Cylons were not terminators either. Count Iblis(Satan) after being thrown out of heaven (ship of lights land, see Mormon mythology) found their race of reptiles and evolved them (like Sauron did with the orcs before BSG in LOTR), and eventually cybernetically enhanced them into the ones seen in the series. The Colonial Holocaust happened because leaders foolishly believing in peace with the Cylons were deceived by Baltar, who was promised Caprica for his own (and rewarded with a beheading originally), to bring the fleet to a peace meeting, leaving most of the homeworlds unprotected. They were running in cruise mode, and massive numbers of Cylons destroyed the fleet.

There's a hell of a lot more differences to the very core of the show, but if you really think that that's the same story.....

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

In the real story, humanity reached out into the galaxy, and met many other races. The Cylons were like the Borg (before there were Borg on Star Trek), conquering and stomping out individuality throughout the galaxy. When they attacked the Furlings (where SG-1 got the name), humanity had a mutual defense pact with them and was drawn into the fight. While the Furlings fell, humanity had held on for the last thousand years.

The origins of the Cylons were not terminators either. Count Iblis(Satan) after being thrown out of heaven (ship of lights land, see Mormon mythology) found their race of reptiles and evolved them (like Sauron did with the orcs before BSG in LOTR), and eventually cybernetically enhanced them into the ones seen in the series. The Colonial Holocaust happened because leaders foolishly believing in peace with the Cylons were deceived by Baltar, who was promised Caprica for his own (and rewarded with a beheading originally), to bring the fleet to a peace meeting, leaving most of the homeworlds unprotected. They were running in cruise mode, and massive numbers of Cylons destroyed the fleet.

There's a hell of a lot more differences to the very core of the show, but if you really think that that's the same story.....

I never intended to debate you on the technicalities of BSG - a) because I know you're much more knowledgeable about the show, and b) more importantly, because it wasn't the point I was making at all. I was trying to point out the huge gulf between what you consider being a legitimate part of a franchise, and what the vast majority considers being a legitimate part of a franchise. I just mentioned BSG as an example of this gulf, the details of why the gulf exists are irrelevant for this conversation.

And for the record, and I do think BSG has the same plot in the most simple sense - robots named cylons chase a large ship called a Battlestar, which contains the last survivors of humanity, through space as it tries to find a mythical planet named Earth. If they kept that same plot, but didn't use the words cylon, Battlestar, or Earth, people would accuse it of ripping off the original BSG. This level of plot similarity is about the same as many of the other remakes / reimaginings / etc. out there. I understand there are a million differences, both large and small, and of varying importance to fans depending on what they enjoyed about the original. But this is not exclusive to BSG, nor is it even exclusive to remakes - plenty of sequels or continuations that officially carry on from pre-existing installments offer just as many tonal and factual shifts (hell, have you ever read comic books?). You choose to have a problem with this, and that is your prerogative - I'm not debating your opinion on this at all, I read you loud and clear. The vast majority of people do not have a problem with this, and that is all I was ever trying to say.

If your entire response is going to consist of nitpicking the first sentence of my second paragraph, please just don't.

[Jeff Kleist]

I'm not, it's just a common misconception they are the same, which is one of the many talking points pushed by the Moore-ites. By that same aspect I should call BSG "The Ten Commandments", because both feature a persecuted people chased from their homes after a vicious attack in search of a new one. It's also a direct betrayal of the tone and purpose. IN the original, Adama holds the priesthood (again, mormon mythology), and is a devout true believer. Olmos is an atheist, cynically using the mythology to keep the masses quiet.

It's these kinds of things that allow people to get away with "re-imagining". Virtually every story out there is derivative of something, and to strip those unique aspects or combinations makes it generic, and strips its identity.

[neo_reloaded]

People get attached to characters, and settings, and basic plot structures. The tone, the meaning, etc. are not what define a franchise for people - and certainly not every minute detail. Having a tone and internal meaning that connects with the audience is important, but most do not care if the tone across multiple installments of the franchise is consistent as long as each one is independently well done. Huge successes have come from injecting a new tone and/or meaning into an existing set of characters and plots, and seeing how it flips things on their head (see: Aliens, Age of Apocalypse, The Dark Knight Returns, and yes BSG). People actively desire this. They want such things to be well done, not cheap cash-ins without effort or inspiration, but they want them.

YOU do not enjoy it. Others do. You disagreeing with the value of the link between franchise entries such as these does not negate the fact that the link exists, and that other people enjoy it.

[Jeff Kleist]

Aliens does not violate Alien, and instead shows another aspect of the universe and continues the story. The Dark Knight did not present a female joker, nor make Batman's MO because he was bullied in school.

People take what they are given, and they usually like it as long as it's done well. May as well do it right AND well. It takes a skilled propagandist like Moore to convince people that the original was so unrecoverable, he was forced to burn it to the foundation. In reality, he wanted to make his own show, saw an opportunity to get funding and seized the moment. People would have liked a modernized version of the original just fine, just like they liked Doctor Who and ST:TNG.

I'm going to leave it lie here, but as I said, you opinion on the subject is uninformed, and obviously biased because you saw Moore's show first. The original is on Netflix, I suggest you view it all the way through, and pay attention

I watched every episode of Moore's show, and gave it far more careful study than I'm asking you to,

[neo_reloaded]

I'm going to leave it lie here, but as I said, you opinion on the subject is uninformed, and obviously biased because you saw Moore's show first. The original is on Netflix, I suggest you view it all the way through, and pay attention

My opinion on the subject is not uninformed. I do not need to know every detail of BSG to have an opinion on the very general practice of remakes/re-imaginings and the changes that come with that territory. I don't even particularly like Moore's BSG - that is completely perpendicular to the argument I am making, and the fact that you place so much importance on minute details of one example shows that you are not even attempting to understand the larger point I am making.

[Jeff Kleist]

I am happy to report that Nausicaa is real subtitles, not dubtitles based on the first 15 minutes

It looks pretty great, I think I know what the "DNR" issue is, but I'm going to test it in Japan with an expert

I have a theory on the dubtitling of the other DVDs, but I'm going test it first

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

I am happy to report that Nausicaa is real subtitles, not dubtitles based on the first 15 minutes

[svenge]

Do you know if the upcoming US home video release of BBC's "Human Planet" will be with the original runtime and narration (John Hurt this time) or will it be shortened and/or Oprah-fied (or another celebrity as appropriate) instead?

[Jeff Kleist]

BBC plays everything very close to the vest I'm afraid.

[Mr. Cinema]

Jeff,

Is there even a remote chance that LionsGate will re-release "Crash" with a new transfer, lossless audio, and all the DVD extras anytime in our near future? Being their lone Best Picture winner, I would think they would want to give it a nice BD presentation.