A Guide to Bipolar, Dipolar, & Direct-Radiating Monopole Surround Speakers (PART I)

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by JamesN

They also only have 1 single left in stock--not a pair. Which may be why it hasn't sold.

Edit: They do have 4 BPVX in stock in black--also at full retail price.

That is more reason why they shoud lower the price. Somebody can buy it and use it in a 6.1 setup.

[jplek]

Thanks everyone plus DB again, for helping me searching for the BPX and suggestions for a 6.1 setup.

I had enquired the Canadian DT distributor and still waiting for their reply.

Keep on searching ..............................

[Tok]

I used a pair of DT BP10Bs as my mains until last fall. The problem that I had with them is that many modern soundtracks pan the dialog between the L-C-R array. They just did not match with the CLR2000 very well with dialog. I was going to replace them with a pair of CLR2000s so all my fronts would match, but that was long out of production. In the end I replaced all the front speakers with three CLR3000s. I still use the BP2Xs for my side surrounds. I really don't think bipolars should be used as mains after living with them for twelve years. I finished my 7.1 Deftech system with ProMonitor100MKIIs.

At one point I was going to switch over to KEF speakers, but I was disappointed in the bass response and then I was going to use their di-pole surround, BUT a dirty secret about these new di-poles is that the L and R are identical. One should be labeled L and the other R. When they are identical and hung on opposing wall, the L and R are out of phase (one fires forward to the front of the room with a positive signal where the other fires to the rear of the room). So you either have to hang one of them upside down or re-wire the drivers on one of the speakers. I really think bipoles for the surround offer the best benefits since most modern tracks are designed for full range surrounds.

[HAMP]

Originally Posted by CraigW

I used a pair of DT BP10Bs as my mains until last fall. The problem that I had with them is that many modern soundtracks pan the dialog between the L-C-R array. They just did not match with the CLR2000 very well with dialog. I was going to replace them with a pair of CLR2000s so all my fronts would match, but that was long out of production. In the end I replaced all the front speakers with three CLR3000s. I still use the BP2Xs for my side surrounds. I really don't think bipolars should be used as mains after living with them for twelve years. I finished my 7.1 Deftech system with ProMonitor100MKIIs.

At one point I was going to switch over to KEF speakers, but I was disappointed in the bass response and then I was going to use their di-pole surround, BUT a dirty secret about these new di-poles is that the L and R are identical. One should be labeled L and the other R. When they are identical and hung on opposing wall, the L and R are out of phase (one fires forward to the front of the room with a positive signal where the other fires to the rear of the room). So you either have to hang one of them upside down or re-wire the drivers on one of the speakers. I really think bipoles for the surround offer the best benefits since most modern tracks are designed for full range surrounds.

My di-pole bi-pole are labeled right and left with a selectable switch. I'm glad you wrote this, now I understand a question someone asked me awhile ago. They were instructed to hang the speakers upside down. It didn't make sense to me then, but now I get it.

[ZIPPO]

Originally Posted by CraigW

I used a pair of DT BP10Bs as my mains until last fall. The problem that I had with them is that many modern soundtracks pan the dialog between the L-C-R array. They just did not match with the CLR2000 very well with dialog. I was going to replace them with a pair of CLR2000s so all my fronts would match, but that was long out of production. In the end I replaced all the front speakers with three CLR3000s. I still use the BP2Xs for my side surrounds. I really don't think bipolars should be used as mains after living with them for twelve years. I finished my 7.1 Deftech system with ProMonitor100MKIIs.

At one point I was going to switch over to KEF speakers, but I was disappointed in the bass response and then I was going to use their di-pole surround, BUT a dirty secret about these new di-poles is that the L and R are identical. One should be labeled L and the other R. When they are identical and hung on opposing wall, the L and R are out of phase (one fires forward to the front of the room with a positive signal where the other fires to the rear of the room). So you either have to hang one of them upside down or re-wire the drivers on one of the speakers. I really think bipoles for the surround offer the best benefits since most modern tracks are designed for full range surrounds.

Sandy Gross changed his stance on this also. http://www.ultimateavmag.com/content...59-sandy-gross

[basserx]

[QUOTE=Big Daddy;4583852]Try Ebay (U.S. and Canada). You may find used or new older stock there. Many Ebay dealers ship to Canada.

For sure try Ebay, i see BPX's on there quite frequently. I really like my old British made Mission surrounds as well, those pop up in Canada on the Bay also.

Have you tried Crutchfield?
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-mOra10X...ology-BPX.html

[basserx]

Here is a pair on Ebay right now if you don't mind white, and could possibly ship to Canada if you can contact the seller.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Definitive-Techn...609463918#shId

[Tok]

Originally Posted by ZIPPO

Sandy Gross changed his stance on this also. http://www.ultimateavmag.com/content...59-sandy-gross

Thanks for the link. I'll need to listen to that. Like I stated my issue was that was a definite change in dialog when panning across the BP10B-CLR2k-BP10B array. As expected the bp speakers sounded less localized. I know bp speakers require a little more effort in placement, but part of my problem was the narrow room and the height of BP10Bs in relation to how far my 100-in screen drops really limited placement of the speakers. My front soundstage seems much more accurate now with three direct radiators of the same speaker type (three CLR3ks in vertical orientation).

I stress to anyone that has the ability to use the same speaker design across the front soundstage to do it. It really pulls everything together.

[Canada]

I think I can speak for more people than my self when I say I'd be lost with out your informative explanations. All hail Big Daddy!

[ack_bak]

Originally Posted by CraigW

Thanks for the link. I'll need to listen to that. Like I stated my issue was that was a definite change in dialog when panning across the BP10B-CLR2k-BP10B array. As expected the bp speakers sounded less localized. I know bp speakers require a little more effort in placement, but part of my problem was the narrow room and the height of BP10Bs in relation to how far my 100-in screen drops really limited placement of the speakers. My front soundstage seems much more accurate now with three direct radiators of the same speaker type (three CLR3ks in vertical orientation).

I stress to anyone that has the ability to use the same speaker design across the front soundstage to do it. It really pulls everything together.

I listened to that Sandy Gross webcast and it was very informative. I don't think bipole is a bad way to go, but as Sandy mentions, speaker technology has evolved and they know more now. That said Sandy has a new company now since he left Deftech (the new company is Goldenear Technologies) and they use a specialized ribbon tweeter similar to what Martin Logan is using in their motion series. So of course he will push that design over bipoles. I am intrigued to hear these Goldenear speakers, they get rave reviews. But I am not closing the door on bipoles either.

[rana_kirti]

so my PSB Image S5 bipoles have arrived...

1. what will be most ideal/perfect placement for them ?

thanks

[sazabi]

Nice and very helpful thread indeed thanx B.daddy.
But my question is about the Axiom QS8 Quadra pole speakers under which category can we put them?
And are they that good I am thinking of getting them do u recommend them?
And do I need one pair for the surround and keep my direct speakers as rear or should I go for two pairs of the Axiom QS8 for the surround and the rear surround in a 7.1 set up?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by rana_kirti

so my PSB Image S5 bipoles have arrived...

1. what will be most ideal/perfect placement for them ?

thanks

In a 5.1 setup, place them on the side walls slightly behind the listening area and a couple of feet above your head when you are sitting down.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by sazabi

Nice and very helpful thread indeed thanx B.daddy.
But my question is about the Axiom QS8 Quadra pole speakers under which category can we put them?
And are they that good I am thinking of getting them do u recommend them?
And do I need one pair for the surround and keep my direct speakers as rear or should I go for two pairs of the Axiom QS8 for the surround and the rear surround in a 7.1 set up?

The Axiom QS8 surround speakers have two tweeters (one on the left and one on the right) and two woofers (top and bottom). Although they radiate sound in four directions, they are connected as bipole speakers (all drivers operate in phase).

All Axiom speakers are very good. If you already have two direct-radiating monopole surround speakers, use them as rear surround and use the QS8 as the side surround.

There are many companies that make bipole/dipole surround speakers. Companies like Definitive Technology are known for making excellent bipolar speakers. If you want lower prices, Home Theater Direct makes very good bipole surround speakers and sells them at very low prices.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/speakers/9...facturers.html

[HAMP]

Hey Big Daddy, Just as you already know, all off your thread are fantastic, educational and with ease on the eyes and brain.

Since I have first read this thread about getting bi or di-pole and used them for myself, I have suggested to many that they should use/try the same, because they are far better then direct.

As of lately, I have been told I should try them mixed(if a person has four), with bi and di-pole. I believe you have told me yourself that I should try it.

I was wondering if you plan to write something that explained the advantages and disadvantages to having them mixed?

1. bi and di-pole
2. bi-pole and direct
3. di-pole and direct

I already know you have a ton of stuff on your plate, I was just curious.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by HAMP

Hey Big Daddy, Just as you already know, all off your thread are fantastic, educational and with ease on the eyes and brain.

Since I have first read this thread about getting bi or di-pole and used them for myself, I have suggested to many that they should use/try the same, because they are far better then direct.

As of lately, I have been told I should try them mixed(if a person has four), with bi and di-pole. I believe you have told me yourself that I should try it.

I was wondering if you plan to write something that explained the advantages and disadvantages to having them mixed?

1. bi and di-pole
2. bi-pole and direct
3. di-pole and direct

I already know you have a ton of stuff on your plate, I was just curious.

Thanks for the compliments. I didn't have such a plan, but I will think about it. My wife already hates you.

[HAMP]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Thanks for the compliments. I didn't have such a plan, but I will think about it. My wife already hates you.

Me? ? ? ?

lol

"What I do???" <------That phrase, my ex HATES. lol

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by HAMP

Me? ? ? ?

lol

"What I do???" <------That phrase, my ex HATES. lol

She knows that everytime anybody asks me a question, I spend hours in front of the computer creating a new thread. If she ever divorces me, I will blame you.

I have already prepared some material, but they need to be edited and cleaned out.

[HAMP]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

She knows that everytime anybody asks me a question, I spend hours in front of the computer creating a new thread. If she ever divorces me, I will blame you.

I have already prepared some material, but they need to be edited and cleaned out.

Wait.... wait... I don't want to be the needle that broke the camel back. I'm just one person


But Ummmm!!!!

I do look forward to reading it…

[rana_kirti]

just got my PSB Image S5. My left wall is 36 inches from the center of the screen/sitting position but my right wall is 96 inches from center/sitting position. Difference of 30 inches.

1. will this affect the performance of surround channels...?

Thanks