Star Wars Wars the UOT Strikes Back and OTHER PEZ dispensers - Page 4 - Blu-ray Forum

Moviefan2k4 · 05-10-2011, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamphausd1

If somebody releases a movie to the public for 20 years, has everybody fall in love with it, and then just takes it away and tries to bury it, it makes you come across as incredibly selfish.

If he really wanted to bury it, he'd have his company recall every other version of the OT that's still on the open market. By leaving all the existent ones out there (VHS-FS, VHS-WS, 2004 DVDs, 2006 DVDs, etc.), he's giving fans the continued choice of viewing them how they want. But as its been noted before, the films ultimately belong to him, and it's his call - not anyone else's - to decide what gets the HD treatment...period.

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There's no reason at all that Lucas should feel so bothered, by having both versions of his movies released side by side, and given equal treatment.

Except for the fact that he personally sees the prior OT versions as flawed and unfinished.

Beast · 05-10-2011, 08:07 PM

Exactly. Look at Star Trek: The Motion Picture for example. The director finally got to release a vision more in keeping in what he hoped to release all those years ago. And on DVD, that was the only version of that film that was available. Sadly we got the craptastic theatrical cut of that film on Blu-Ray. Hopefully that will be corrected in time. Since the changes to ST:TMP salvage it from being a rather terrible movie.

octagon · 05-10-2011, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beast

And on DVD, that was the only version of that film that was available. Sadly we got the craptastic theatrical cut of that film on Blu-Ray.

Sadly? You just said the version you prefer is available on DVD.

What's there to be sad about?

KubrickFan · 05-10-2011, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beast

I still remember the movies as they were originally released. So I guess the timeline alteration of Lucas erasing history hasn't caught up to us yet.
He is not "Erasing History", just like he's not sending Stormtroopers out to gather up those obsolete versions to be destroyed.

They can offer to fund them all they want. The point is he doesn't feel they're worth bothering with.

Again, he does respect the fans. He's just not going to sacrifice his vision to kowtow to them.

I meant movie making history. You do know the special effects shots of the ships were still leaps over anything that had come before? Apart from 2001: A Space Odyssey? He's trying to erase the hard work the men at ILM then did. When you read the making of book, you read about the difficult time they had while making the movie. Now, instead of watching all of that on the screen, you now can't, because there's a CG ship instead.

That's what's bothering me. It's not the right thing to do. It's not right to simply refuse to release anything that's so popular, that made so much money, simply because you don't feel it's good enough. And how does he respect the fans by giving them only what he wants? Tell me that.

Beast · 05-10-2011, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by octagon

Sadly? You just said the version you prefer is available on DVD.

What's there to be sad about?

Yep. Which is why I'm not too bothered with it. I kept my DVD set of The Motion Picture just for that reason.

Just like you guys can keep your DVD versions (or VHS, Laserdisc, what have you), of the Theatrical Editions.

Moviefan2k4 · 05-10-2011, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beast

Look at Star Trek: The Motion Picture for example. The director finally got to release a vision more in keeping in what he hoped to release all those years ago. And on DVD, that was the only version of that film that was available. Sadly we got the craptastic theatrical cut of that film on Blu-Ray. Hopefully that will be corrected in time. Since the changes to ST:TMP salvage it from being a rather terrible movie.

Well, I only saw the first "Trek" movie a couple of times, on VHS as a kid, so I don't really remember a lot about it. I did borrow the Director's Cut DVD from a friend, just to see what all the hype was about...and to me, it still sucked. Most of the film consists of long, drawn-out shots of the Enterprise, and lots of posing by the cast...but nothing of substance actually happens, until the very end...and even then, I was still disappointed. That's 2+ hours of my life I'll never get back.

kamphausd1 · 05-10-2011, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

If he really wanted to bury it, he'd have his company recall every other version of the OT that's still on the open market. By leaving all the existent ones out there (VHS-FS, VHS-WS, 2004 DVDs, 2006 DVDs, etc.), he's giving fans the continued choice of viewing them how they want.

He may not be going around trying to destroy everybody's existing copies, but not making a film available on any future format that is needed does in a way constitute trying to bury it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

But as its been noted before, the films ultimately belong to him, and it's his call - not anyone else's - to decide what gets the HD treatment...period.

And as has been also noted before, that doesn't necessarily make it right or 100% ethical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

Except for the fact that he personally sees the prior OT versions as flawed and unfinished.

Even though those versions made him a billionaire, wowed audiences and critics, broke box office records, influenced countless filmmakers in the world today, revolutionized the field of visual effects, and basically changed the face of cinema forever.

octagon · 05-10-2011, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beast

Just like you guys can keep your DVD versions (or VHS, Laserdisc, what have you), of the Theatrical Editions.

Hopefully that will be corrected in time.

Elandyll · 05-10-2011, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beast

Again, he does respect the fans. He's just not going to sacrifice his vision to kowtow to them.

Just wondering. If one day we have realistic enough CGI actors, and thus Lucas could create 100% digital actors to replace the ones from the OT and the PT with -exactly - who Lucas had in mind when he wrote the script, you would be supporting that?

Also, I just don't see the need to replace completely the Original version.
What would be the problem in offering both the "Original Theatrical" and the "Director's Vision"?
The need to "destroy"/ replace what is history (albeit movie history) just leaves a bad taste in my mouth tbh.

Moviefan2k4 · 05-10-2011, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KubrickFan

How does he respect the fans by giving them only what he wants? Tell me that.

Well, anyone could just as easily turn that sentiment on its head, like this, and each one would probably cancel each other out...

"How do the fans respect him, by insisting he gives only what they want? Tell me that."

BouCoupDinkyDau · 05-10-2011, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluyoda

That's trolling right there!

No it's called a joke. But since you're so defensive, I might indeed appear like trolling to a person of your character.

Beast · 05-10-2011, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KubrickFan

I meant movie making history. You do know the special effects shots of the ships were still leaps over anything that had come before? Apart from 2001: A Space Odyssey? He's trying to erase the hard work the men at ILM then did. When you read the making of book, you read about the difficult time they had while making the movie. Now, instead of watching all of that on the screen, you now can't, because there's a CG ship instead.

And that history hasn't been magically altered by changing the films now either. And most of the special effects shots of the ships are still intact. There has been some CGI enhancement and additions. But it's not like every special effects shot has been redone in CGI and nothing of the original work remains. So he's not erasing it. Any more than any of the additions to the original model work, such as the animated engine lights or laser blasts erased the original mode work the first time around. So the argument doesn't really hold water in that case. The work is stil there.

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That's what's bothering me. It's not the right thing to do. It's not right to simply refuse to release anything that's so popular, that made so much money, simply because you don't feel it's good enough. And how does he respect the fans by giving them only what he wants? Tell me that.

It's the right thing to do, from his point of view as the creator and owner. And companies refuse to release popular things all the time. For a variety of reasons. You can't walk into Taco Bell and demand a hamburger, just because it's the most popular form of fast food. The world doesn't work like Burger King, you can't have everything "Your way, Right Away". So again, he respects the fans. But he's not going to sacrifice his vision for them.

octagon · 05-10-2011, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamphausd1

And as has been also noted before, that doesn't necessarily make it right or 100% ethical.

I don't like his decisions in this regard either but I can't really say I see any significant ethical component to them.

It's one thing to say he's being unreasonable or stubborn but it's another entirely to say he's not being completely ethical.

He has no ethical obligation to give us what we want or having once given it to us to continue giving it to us.

Moviefan2k4 · 05-10-2011, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamphausd1

Even though those versions made him a billionaire, wowed audiences and critics, broke box office records, influenced countless filmmakers in the world today, revolutionized the field of visual effects, and basically changed the face of cinema forever.

Well, Lucas has openly displayed a very "perfectionistic" attitude towards his work. Just watch the making of any prequel for a modern example of that. He did what he could with what was available to him at the time...and even though it succeeded, Lucas apparently wanted it to be even bigger. He couldn't do it then, so he's doing it now.

octagon · 05-10-2011, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

Well, anyone could just as easily turn that sentiment on its head, like this, and each one would probably cancel each other out...

"How do the fans respect him, by insisting he gives only what they want? Tell me that."

Nice try but nobody is insisting he release the theatrical cuts and only the theatrical cuts.

s2mikey · 05-10-2011, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beast

I have a few opinions about that $1000 Scarface boxset. But to avoid being banned, I'll keep my trap shut.

$1,000 Scarface set? Is that for all the rap stars to buy so they can nail it up in their foyer when they are on MTV Cribs?

I wouldnt pay a buck for any Scarface anything. Its a fun, super-cheesey, unintentionally-funny 80's gangster movie but lets not treat it like some super-collectors item....geesh!

BouCoupDinkyDau · 05-10-2011, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beast

Exactly. Look at Star Trek: The Motion Picture for example. The director finally got to release a vision more in keeping in what he hoped to release all those years ago. And on DVD, that was the only version of that film that was available. Sadly we got the craptastic theatrical cut of that film on Blu-Ray. Hopefully that will be corrected in time. Since the changes to ST:TMP salvage it from being a rather terrible movie.

I agree with you Beast. The Director's DVD of TMP was a wild improvement over the original offering, yet it never raped the original film. AW basically just finished up some f/x shots that they never had the money for, and made super subtle changes to the film that are almost undetectable, yet enhance that film from up from boring trash to a pretty decent sci-fi flick.

I still have my DVD of it as well.

Beast · 05-10-2011, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s2mikey

$1,000 Scarface set? Is that for all the rap stars to buy so they can nail it up in their foyer when they are on MTV Cribs?

I wouldnt pay a buck for any Scarface anything. Its a fun, super-cheesey, unintentionally-funny 80's gangster movie but lets not treat it like some super-collectors item....geesh!

Yeah, it comes in a wooden humidor box made from some sort of expensive wood or something. It's crazy.

kamphausd1 · 05-10-2011, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by octagon

I don't like his decisions in this regard either but I can't really say I see any significant ethical component to them.

It's one thing to say he's being unreasonable or stubborn but it's another entirely to say he's not being completely ethical.

He has no ethical obligation to give us what we want or having once given it to us to continue giving it to us.

I understand perfectly what you mean, but I was really referring to his attempts to bury the original version and rewrite history by only releasing the special edition when I said he wasn't being completely ethical.

octagon · 05-10-2011, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beast

Yeah, it comes in a wooden humidor box made from some sort of expensive wood or something. It's crazy.

To get even farther (further?) off track, it's not as completely crazy as it seems.

Custom/collectible humidors often sell for hundreds of dollars and the guy doing this one is pretty well regarded.

The ~$700 street price is completely ridiculous from a BD standpoint but from a custom humidor standpoint it's only a little ridiculous.

05-10-2011, 08:07 PM	#62
Beast Blu-ray Champion Member since:Feb 2008 Blu-ray collection:376 Blu-ray reviews:3	Exactly. Look at Star Trek: The Motion Picture for example. The director finally got to release a vision more in keeping in what he hoped to release all those years ago. And on DVD, that was the only version of that film that was available. Sadly we got the craptastic theatrical cut of that film on Blu-Ray. Hopefully that will be corrected in time. Since the changes to ST:TMP salvage it from being a rather terrible movie.

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