Predator (1987) (Ultimate Hunter Edition)

[42041]

Originally Posted by mars396

But it still does not explain the anger this topic has generated.

Would it anger you if studios added a thick layer of fake grain to a movie?

[mars396]

Originally Posted by 42041

Would it anger you if studios added a thick layer of fake grain to a movie?

yes of course !

(exceptions: 300 and Grindhouse)


my point is:

would I get angry at someone who liked that ?

NO

[mr. b]

Originally Posted by mars396

My little observation may explain why some of us don't see the imperfections of this release as others do.

But it still does not explain the anger this topic has generated.

Perhaps that is a question for a psychologist, not an accountant.

I am not trying to defend anyone's actions here by any means, but you have to remember that Predator is a movie that is considered by many to be a sci-fi action classic; it spawned what, 2 sequels now, as well as part of a spin-off of movies with another sci-fi creature from outer space. I think that is why there was such an uproar when it was first released, and I think that is why there is such an uproar now. To many, many fans, it DESERVES a proper restoration. I think the anti-UHE crowd is trying to get those that love the UHE to understand that treating old movies like this is not just flat out wrong, it is unjust and should be considered criminal. It is scary to them when they see a film they love get DNR'd to death, and it gets praises from many for being the best version out there. They feel like it is an obligation to not only shout as loud as possible to the studios that they should be ashamed of themselves for this release, but they also feel like they should shout as loud as possible to the fans of such a horrid release (again, that is how they see this release) in some attempt to "educate" them that this release SHOULD BE PULLED, not praised.

[Eny-]

I don't get why some people are defending this piece of crap...

It reminds me of similar discussions on why studios were releasing widescreen movies when pan&scan looked so much better... even on bigger TVs.

[Oblivion138]

Originally Posted by mars396

no, that is YOUR conclusion

my conclusion is that it looks great on smaller screens, and the imperfections (ie waxy plasticy) show up on larger screens. I make no comment about any other title, or even that this one is perfect. I just had to get to the bottom of this topic that has divided us so. And created such hatred toward those of us who like it.

The worst transfers in the world will look good if you shrink the screen enough, as their deficiencies inevitably become less noticeable. As such, the point that a given transfer looks good on a small display means nothing. A truly good transfer would hold up on larger screens.

[BouCoupDinkyDau]

Originally Posted by finetaste

Why not right something constructive instead of criticizing other members views and theories.

It's because of his behavior, that's why. He wants everyone to agree UHE is as great as he wants it to be, but he basically disproved his own theories.

We all know it's a mess, but there is a small group of diehards that pretends it isn't.

To each his own.

[Rob71]

Originally Posted by oblivion138

the worst transfers in the world will look good if you shrink the screen enough, as their deficiencies inevitably become less noticeable. As such, the point that a given transfer looks good on a small display means nothing. A truly good transfer would hold up on larger screens.

+1000!

[HonestJohn]

Woo-Hoo! Just got Predator 1.0 to supplement UHE's Special Features disc. Looking forward to not puking during the opening scenes of the movie anymore where Arnie and Carl meet ...

Seriously though, parts of UHE do look very good, it's just those waxy plastisized shots really turn my stomach and ruin the movie for me. Yes,I own a few DNR'd flicks, but nothing as atrocious to my eyes as UHE.

[tama]

Originally Posted by HonestJohn

Woo-Hoo! Just got Predator 1.0 to supplement UHE's Special Features disc. Looking forward to not puking during the opening scenes of the movie anymore where Arnie and Carl meet ...

Seriously though, parts of UHE do look very good, it's just those waxy plastisized shots really turn my stomach and ruin the movie for me. Yes,I own a few DNR'd flicks, but nothing as atrocious to my eyes as UHE.

I own a few movies with what I believe is excessive DNR myself...Tremors, Evil Dead II, The Good...The Bad...The Ugly. I think Predator gets more grip because of the existing two differnt US version available. Just thinking out loud here.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by mr. b

I am not trying to defend anyone's actions here by any means, but you have to remember that Predator is a movie that is considered by many to be a sci-fi action classic; it spawned what, 2 sequels now, as well as part of a spin-off of movies with another sci-fi creature from outer space. I think that is why there was such an uproar when it was first released, and I think that is why there is such an uproar now. To many, many fans, it DESERVES a proper restoration. I think the anti-UHE crowd is trying to get those that love the UHE to understand that treating old movies like this is not just flat out wrong, it is unjust and should be considered criminal. It is scary to them when they see a film they love get DNR'd to death, and it gets praises from many for being the best version out there. They feel like it is an obligation to not only shout as loud as possible to the studios that they should be ashamed of themselves for this release, but they also feel like they should shout as loud as possible to the fans of such a horrid release (again, that is how they see this release) in some attempt to "educate" them that this release SHOULD BE PULLED, not praised.

No one will win an argument about subjective perception.

Many of you have lost sight of the fact that the design and release of UHE with movie money on 29 June 2010 was a marketing creation to drive the mainstream 18 to34 male demographic to attend the Predators theater debut on 9 July. The UHE was not created to answer the widespread criticism of the 2008 predator release which was tailored for the niche early adopter videophile market which accurately described blu-ray buyers at the time. Blu-ray passed the mainstream threshold in 2010.

The first thing you see on UHE is the Predators trailer. Many of the extras and featurettes included are designed to persuade viewers that moving the franchise in this new direction is a good idea.

UHE accomplished what it was designed to accomplish. I don’t think Fox Home Entertainment can be motivated to devote any more attention to another remaster/transfer. It simply does not hold that level of importance in their view.

I understand your view TAMA . I would say I feel your pain, but you probably wouldn’t believe me.

I get that many of you hope that continuing to complain about the PQ will cause Fox to reevaluate their position. How much more do you think it will take? What more can be said to convince them that the criticism is not unfair/unjust/undeserved.

[HonestJohn]

Originally Posted by tama

I own a few movies with what I believe is excessive DNR myself...Tremors, Evil Dead II, The Good...The Bad...The Ugly. I think Predator gets more grip because of the existing two differnt US version available. Just thinking out loud here.

I have two of the movies you just mentioned and neither bother me as much as UHE. In fact I bought UHE before I even knew what DNR was or that there was a seperate release. At the start of the movie I just looked at the TV and said WTF?? is wrong with my Blu-Ray or Player. Then I looked at some reviews and then realized what I was looking at. As I type this I'm watching the original release and definitely prefer it ... eye of the beholder I suppose and as Ray said ....

Originally Posted by raygendreau

No one will win an argument about subjective perception.

[Rob71]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

No one will win an argument about subjective perception.

Many of you have lost sight of the fact that the design and release of UHE with movie money on 29 June 2010 was a marketing creation to drive the mainstream 18 to34 male demographic to attend the Predators theater debut on 9 July. The UHE was not created to answer the widespread criticism of the 2008 predator release which was tailored for the niche early adopter videophile market which accurately described blu-ray buyers at the time. Blu-ray passed the mainstream threshold in 2010.

The first thing you see on UHE is the Predators trailer. Many of the extras and featurettes included are designed to persuade viewers that moving the franchise in this new direction is a good idea.

UHE accomplished what it was designed to accomplish. I don’t think Fox Home Entertainment can be motivated to devote any more attention to another remaster/transfer. It simply does not hold that level of importance in their view.

I understand your view TAMA . I would say I feel your pain, but you probably wouldn’t believe me.

I get that many of you hope that continuing to complain about the PQ will cause Fox to reevaluate their position. How much more do you think it will take? What more can be said to convince them that the criticism is not unfair/unjust/undeserved.

And in a couple years if they release yet another version without the dreaded DNR that plagued this release with a movie ticket for the next Predator movie with a "Governator" commentary track you know what would happen? It would outsell this release. How many DVD releases were there? What really makes you think this is the last release of this title? After all, a screwed up Patton is getting a new release apparently. Also remember Gangs of New York? Gladiator? But yeah your right, legitimate gripes are ignored by the studios.

[Oblivion138]

Originally Posted by tama

I own a few movies with what I believe is excessive DNR myself...Tremors, Evil Dead II, The Good...The Bad...The Ugly. I think Predator gets more grip because of the existing two differnt US version available. Just thinking out loud here.

I'd say there are a few points to this. One, the DNR on the Predator UHE is worse than on the titles you mentioned (which still look pretty bad).

But secondly, you're right in that much of it has to do with there being two editions. When Fox announced they were going to remaster Predator for a special edition, fans who were underwhelmed by the BD-25 MPEG-2 encode and lack of extras on the original release got excited. Only to have their excitement turn sour when the "remastered" release ended up being one of the most severely DNR'ed catalog releases from any major distributor. Fox raised the hopes of fans with the promise of vastly improved PQ, then dashed those hopes with egregious manipulation of the image.

High expectations for the re-release led to mass disappointment among fans who really care about the integrity of the image...and predictably, mass approval among fans who just want everything to look slick and shiny. Ironically, it led the disappointed viewers to re-evaluate the original release, and suddenly, it didn't look so bad by comparison. Still nowhere near as good as it could look if Fox properly remastered it, but in the eyes of many viewers, certainly preferable to the waxy mess that they had vainly hoped would be a definitive remastering.

[Dotpattern]

Originally Posted by mars396

please show where I mention Casablanca, The Third Man, 2001, the Connery Bond films and Road Warrior

I didn't say you mentioned those films. I mentioned them. The point being that the age of Predator has nothing to do with how it should look on a screen larger than 40" when all those older films look fantastic.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Rob71

And in a couple years if they release yet another version without the dreaded DNR that plagued this release with a movie ticket for the next Predator movie with a "Governator" commentary track you know what would happen? It would outsell this release. How many DVD releases were there? What really makes you think this is the last release of this title? After all, a screwed up Patton is getting a new release apparently. Also remember Gangs of New York? Gladiator? But yeah your right, legitimate gripes are ignored by the studios.

I don't think its the last release, I think its the last transfer. However, I'm beginning to wonder if the problem in getting them to remaster is that Fox Filmed Entertainment just doesn't think the film is worthy of classification as a classic film? A film worthy of the attention some believe it deserves. Patton does appear in their list of classics. What do you think?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20th_Ce...ics_Collection

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20th_Ce...tudio_Classics

http://www.classicfilmguide.com/

[Blu Titan]

Over 30 reported posts in one day, and this has been going on for a few days already. I dislike to post "warnings" in threads as we are all adults. Personal attacks and continuous bickering will result in a suspension. Post your opinion and move on as it is obvious that neither side is going to convince the other .

[Rob71]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

I don't think its the last release, I think its the last transfer. However, I'm beginning to wonder if the problem in getting them to remaster is that Fox Filmed Entertainment just doesn't think the film is worthy of classification as a classic film? A film worthy of the attention some believe it deserves. Patton does appear in their list of classics. What do you think?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20th_Ce...ics_Collection

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20th_Ce...tudio_Classics

http://www.classicfilmguide.com/

I think that when the eventual rerelease happens, they will not just stick a near universally panned disc in the case. Whether it will measure up, who knows. But I'd be willing to bet a new transfer happens. Fox does have ears after all. The fact that they saw fit to have a marketing suit comment publically proves that.

[720pDude]

Originally Posted by hamchuck1

I kind of agree with this. 2001 and The Road Warrior looks great and film-like on a 100 inch screen. Predator UHE does not. It can look a lot better than it does.

This is simply ur opinion cuz IMO, I watch it on a 105 inches and have ZERO problems with image

[mr. b]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

No one will win an argument about subjective perception.

Many of you have lost sight of the fact that the design and release of UHE with movie money on 29 June 2010 was a marketing creation to drive the mainstream 18 to34 male demographic to attend the Predators theater debut on 9 July. The UHE was not created to answer the widespread criticism of the 2008 predator release which was tailored for the niche early adopter videophile market which accurately described blu-ray buyers at the time. Blu-ray passed the mainstream threshold in 2010.

The first thing you see on UHE is the Predators trailer. Many of the extras and featurettes included are designed to persuade viewers that moving the franchise in this new direction is a good idea.

UHE accomplished what it was designed to accomplish. I don’t think Fox Home Entertainment can be motivated to devote any more attention to another remaster/transfer. It simply does not hold that level of importance in their view.

I get that many of you hope that continuing to complain about the PQ will cause Fox to reevaluate their position. How much more do you think it will take? What more can be said to convince them that the criticism is not unfair/unjust/undeserved.

I am fully aware of how UHE was released. I almost picked it up for the movie money. If what you say is true, to release Predator again to simply tailor to a target audience, why did they bother to mess with it? Why not release the exact same disc in some new fancy packaging? IMHO, they saw an opportunity to release it again to promote the new movie AND they wanted to shut the complainers up with the old release. They just botched it up a second time, that's all (yes, that is my opinion).

You may very well be right that they are not interested in remastering this movie again, but I seriously doubt this will stop people from complaining about it. They have already released it twice on blu, and there are still plenty of these releases on the shelves. I'm sure when marketing sees another opportunity to make money off this title, they will seize it and HOPEFULLY release it properly. It might take another Predator sequel or two, and then a full box set with all new masters, but Fox will eventually release it again. They'd be stupid not to. Convincing Fox to release it again now is a loss cause because it is too close to the UHE release, and Fox does not consider or will not admit that the UHE release is flawed enough to warrant such a release.

The simple fact that the vast majority of reviewers shot the UHE down suggests to me that it is the lesser of the two releases, even though the older release had issues of it's own.

[Oblivion138]

Originally Posted by 720pDude

This is simply ur opinion cuz IMO, I watch it on a 105 inches and have ZERO problems with image

No, it's not an opinion to say that the UHE doesn't look "film-like"...that's a statement of fact.

You can say the transfer looks good according to your tastes, but you can't say it looks like film.